Mary said no!

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Greetings friends in Christ!

One of my 7th grade CCD students asked the following question:

What would have happened if Mary had said No [to Gabriel]?

I plan on explaining that Mary was protected by Grace from answering ‘No’ as her will was to do the will of God. Although she was pre-destined from eternity to be the Mother of God, it still took her cooperation through her free will to set off the Lord’s plan of redemption. (I hope that is right)

But I’d like to know your opinions:

What would the world look like if Mary had said no?

Sincerely in Christ,
Corrgc
 
Greetings friends in Christ!

One of my 7th grade CCD students asked the following question:

What would have happened if Mary had said No [to Gabriel]?

I plan on explaining that Mary was protected by Grace from answering ‘No’ as her will was to do the will of God. Although she was pre-destined from eternity to be the Mother of God, it still took her cooperation through her free will to set off the Lord’s plan of redemption. (I hope that is right)

But I’d like to know your opinions:

What would the world look like if Mary had said no?

Sincerely in Christ,
Corrgc
I can see a 7th grader then asking: Well if God’s Grace kept her from saying “No” did she really have free will?
 
I would just be honest with them and tell them that you don’t know, and we will never know for sure. I would imagine though that God would find another way of giving us the grace to be saved, being that God is just and merciful.

I would also tell them though that there is really no point in what-ifs. You could play the what-if game all day long. It is what happened, and we should rejoice in it that Mary said yes and God sent His only begotten son into the world to be our saviour.
 
Greetings friends in Christ!

One of my 7th grade CCD students asked the following question:

What would have happened if Mary had said No [to Gabriel]?

I plan on explaining that Mary was protected by Grace from answering ‘No’ as her will was to do the will of God. Although she was pre-destined from eternity to be the Mother of God, it still took her cooperation through her free will to set off the Lord’s plan of redemption. (I hope that is right)

But I’d like to know your opinions:

What would the world look like if Mary had said no?

Sincerely in Christ,
Corrgc
The thing is, God always knew what Mary was going to say, as he is eternal. That means that if she was going to say no under the circumstances, then God wouldn’t have asked her in the first place. Does this violate Mary’s free will? No. But it can be hard to see how.
 
Hey Corrgc!

The answer you gave for the explaniation was very consise and easy to understand. I would stick to exactly what you posted because it can be so easy to exploit the exegesis of the perpetual virgin and her moral decisions regarding the birth of Christ. Sounds like your the kind of teacher every 7th grader should have.

Peace and Blessings,
Heather
 
Thank you all for your responses.

Although speculation and what-if scenarios are not practical in this case, they are 12 year olds after all, and I believe I should make an attempt to answer the original question -

What if Mary had said no?

This is a great opportunity to teach about the power of Mary’s response. How can we call Mary the co-redemptrix if we don’t believe her ‘Yes’ was an act of her free will? In order to understand the magnitude of her choice, we should try to understand the negative effect of the wrong choice.

Were there not moments in the Old Testament that the Lord was ready to disinherit the JEws if it were not for Moses and the Prophets? Would it be wrong to speculate that the Lord may have indeed left the world dead to sin and in darkness until the Savior entered the world by another means?

I know it is too much for our puny, little human brains to contemplate - but give it your best shot.

What do you think?

Sincerely in Christ,
Corrgc
 
Were there not moments in the Old Testament that the Lord was ready to disinherit the JEws if it were not for Moses and the Prophets? Would it be wrong to speculate that the Lord may have indeed left the world dead to sin and in darkness until the Savior entered the world by another means?
It sounds to me as if you are limiting God’s eternal nature. God knew what would happen; he knew that Moses and the Prophets would sort things out. This still means that Moses and the Prophets had to sort things out, of their own free will in accordance to the graces granted them from God.

We cannot speculate on what would have happened if Mary had have said “no”, because if she would have said “no”, God would know this. Therefore He never would have asked Mary in the first place. But this doesn’t mean that Mary was in any way forced to say “yes”, it just means that God knew what she was going to say before she said it.
 
To be honest,i think god KNEW mary would co-operate with his plan,after all he did choose her from birth,he kept her free from sin,its not like she became older and then he asked her,he was planning on asking her all her life,hence the immaculate conception.

There was no chance in gods mind that mary would have declined.
 
Thanks again for your responses. I guess this is quickly dissolving into a Pre-destination vs Free Will discussion.

Am I wrong to believe that Mary still made a choice based on her own free will? Or was Mary so protected by Grace that it was impossible for her to say “no”?

After all, Eve was disobedient. Why couldn’t Mary say no? And if so, what may have been the consequence?

Sincerely in Christ,

Corrgc
 
Reminds me of when my high schoolers asked the same question.

One suggested that there might have been a second “original” sin as the consequence:bigyikes:
 
Here’s a snipet from an article in “This Rock” magazine, which I believe will help you:
HYPOTHESIS CONTRARY TO FACT
PEOPLE LOVE to speculate. There’s nothing necessarily wrong with that (though we need to keep in mind what Samuel Johnson said: “When speculation has done its worst, two and two still make four”).
One of the things people like to speculate about is “what might have been,” and there’s nothing necessarily wrong with that either. It’s all right to give our imagination a stretch once in a while. But it hardly belongs in an argument as a proof. We may cherish the fancy that “If A had happened, then B would have (or, would never have) happened.” But we can hardly include such a “what if” as a premise in a serious argument.
Two days before I became a Catholic, some of my fellow ministers, together with some scholars from a well-known Calvinistic seminary, met with me at the request of the denomination in which I was an ordained minister. It was to be a last-ditch effort to talk me out of converting. At one point in the discussion, because I was citing Augustine as an early witness to certain Catholic doctrines, one of the ministers jumped up, pounded the table with his fist, and loudly declaimed, “If Augustine were alive today, I know which church he’d belong to!”
He meant, of course, that Augustine would have been a minister in that Presbyterian denomination and not a bishop in the Catholic Church. He would have been a Calvinist, not a Catholic. Augustine was only a Catholic by default because he had the rotten luck to be born B.C. (Before Calvin), before the Reformation, which could have given him another option, had happened.
What struck me was not the superficiality of the minister’s understanding of Augustine that prompted him to assert Augustine would have jumped at the chance to be a modern Protestant. What struck me was that he proceeded, based upon this speculative hypothesis, to plead with me, since I held Augustine in such high esteem, to “stay in the church Augustine would have belonged to.”
Also do a Search and type in “Could’ve Mary said no?”
 
This is what my son’s religion book teaches about Mary. He is in 3rd grade, so it may be a little simplistic for a 12 yr old.

"God gave to Mary all the holy graces that he gave to Eve, and many more. Unlike Eve, she did not fall into sin. In fact, she did not have any stain of sin at all. Mary was full of sanctifying grace, even before she was born…Her soul was perfectly pleasing to God in every way. She was “filled with grace”…Gabriel knew she had never offended God by the smallest sin. Gabriel knew she was “full of grace.” …Mary said “I am the handmaid of the Lord. Be it done unto me according to thy word.”

What I tried to explain to my son when we were studying the Imaculate Conception was not only that Mary was obedient to God when she accepted His Will, eventhough it meant that she would have certainly faced terrible disgrace from her community, but I also wanted to convey the difference between Mary and Eve.

Eve, through her disobediance, brought about the end of paradise and the stain of original sin which became the inheritance of mankind. Mary, through her obediance, became the vessal for the salvation of man, that was lost to us through the sin of our first parents.

Now, about Mary’s free will, I would explain it this way; Mary could have said no, yes she was in a state of santifying grace that would have presumably prevented her from denying the Will of God, but she had to be the one to say yes "be it done unto me according to Thy Will. She accepted God’s Plan for her through her own free will, unlike Eve.

As far as God already knowing that Mary was going to say yes. We could also say that God also knew that Eve would say yes to Satan, that the paradise He created for her and Adam would be forever lost to this earth when she made that decision. That is why the lesson of Mary and the Immaculate Conception is so powerful. A great gift was given to us by God through his son Jesus, and another gift was given to us by Mary when she accepted her destiny as the Mother of the Saviour of the world.

What would have happened if Mary had said no? I guess technically you could say that the Saviour would not have been born, at least not to Mary, but I’m sure the Lord in His Mercy would have made other arrangements (not to be litehearted about it) However, as ridiculous as that sounds, I would not leave your students with the impression that Mary’s acceptance of God’s will was insignificant or somehow not relevant because God made her so that she could not have refused. Her acceptance of God’s Will is the very thing that makes her what she is. In essense, she set right what Eve made wrong in the garden.

Jesus, who was both human and Divine (unlike Mary, who although was in santifying grace was not divine) also had free will while human on earth. He also accepted the Will of His Father by dying on the cross. Once again, an act of love and obedience to God, brought salvation to the world.
 
Thanks again for your responses. I guess this is quickly dissolving into a Pre-destination vs Free Will discussion.
Free Will can be reconciled with Predestination. They are both essential dogmas of the faith.
Am I wrong to believe that Mary still made a choice based on her own free will?
Not at all. In fact, you are completely correct to state this.
Or was Mary so protected by Grace that it was impossible for her to say “no”?
Well, I would hesitate to say that she was “protected by grace”. I don’t think there’s any way for us to determine exactly “how much” grace she received. I mean, that doesn’t even make much sense. What happened is that God knew which choice Mary would make, given the circumstances that Mary would face. So even though Mary still made her choice, if she would’ve said no in the situation, God would have known this before hand and so would have never asked her in the first place!
After all, Eve was disobedient. Why couldn’t Mary say no? And if so, what may have been the consequence?
Well, she could’ve said no as she has free will. But if she would’ve said no, God would have known this and so not asked her. Therefore, in a manner of speaking, she couldn’t have said no, but only because she never *would *have been asked in the first place if she was going to say no. Therefore, it doesn’t really do much good to speculate on “what *would *have happened if she’d said no”, because this situation never *could *have occurred.

God knows before we make them, the choices we will make.

Pax tecum.
 
One person cannot thwart God’s plan for the world. If Mary had said no, we’d have a different virgin chosen to bear Jesus. God does know though what people will say to Him in advance so it’s not like God was worried about it. If God had asked someone who He already knew would say no, He would likely have used it to teach that person more about Him, and possible it would also be recorded in the Bible so we could learn from it as well.
 
One person cannot thwart God’s plan for the world. If Mary had said no, we’d have a different virgin chosen to bear Jesus. God does know though what people will say to Him in advance so it’s not like God was worried about it. If God had asked someone who He already knew would say no, He would likely have used it to teach that person more about Him, and possible it would also be recorded in the Bible so we could learn from it as well.
Yes, I think this is a very good answer!
 
Isn’t it so special that God chose Virgin Mary out of billion of Virgins! also, Virgin Mary is so humble that she was giving birth to Jesus - the Lord - and 30 years later, people got to know. I am not sure if I had been her, how I dealt with my pride?

In other words, God see Virgin Mary the most blessed woman to bear Himself - No one else! Therefore, you don’t really know what could happen if Mary had said No. 🙂

Virgin Mary Loves Us All!
 
Gabriel didn’t ask her if she would do this, he told her that she would, I think that she would have had as much chance to say “no” as Jonah did when God “asked him” to preach to Ninivah.
God did not take a " no " as an answer there, and I don’t think that he would have taken it here either.

Luke 1: 30-33
Then the angel said to her, “Do not be afraid, Mary, for you have found favor with God.
Behold, you will conceive in your womb and bear a son, and you shall name him Jesus.
He will be great and will be called Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give him the throne of David his father,
and he will rule over the house of Jacob forever, and of his kingdom there will be no end.”
 
The thing is, God always knew what Mary was going to say, as he is eternal. That means that if she was going to say no under the circumstances, then God wouldn’t have asked her in the first place. Does this violate Mary’s free will? No. But it can be hard to see how.
Exactly.

If Mary had said “no” can you imaging God saying “wow…I didn’t see that one coming”
 
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