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Dokimas
Guest
For as smart as you think you are youāve missed me saying that Mary having children is not my issue. I agree with the verses brought forth by others that Jesus had sibblings. I think itās logical that Mary had other children. However, I donāt think thereās proof one way or the other. Matthew 1:24,25 does suggest Joseph and Mary had ārelationsā. If the did, it is logical to assume that they had children. But, thatās NOT my issue.**And you STILL havenāt pointed us to any Biblical verse, Church tradition or extrabiblical source that says Mary gave birth to *****other ***children, have you?
**Yeah - *thatās ***what I thought . . .
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Dokimas
Guest
Care to elaborate?Yes think of the implications for you!
God bless
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Cable
Guest
but you cannot be correct, unfortunately b/c what you assert is contrary to the truth of the Church of the apostles of Jesus Christ.
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Nicea325
Guest
Okay here is where I struggle for those who believed she HAD to have had relations after Jesus. Says WHO? Why did she have to have more children? Why is it so difficult to accept all the possibilities she may have chosen NOT to have any?
I am sorry Dokimas,but people living today who really believe it is so un-natural for Mary to have only one child or not have sexual relations is beyond my comprehension. One of my catechist here is 65 year old woaman who has never been married,no kids and has never had any sexual relations with any man. And why? Because she felt her calling was to serve God 100%. Do you think I am making this up? Would you believe her? Is it un-natural for her? Is it impossible in todayās world?
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Dokimas
Guest
No room for discussion, I see.
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Dokimas
Guest
Why did she have to be celibate? Would it have made her an the less the wonderful mother of Jesus? No.
I think the woman you know is quite a woman. Itās wonderful for a person to be celibate for the glory of God. Mary was married.
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mark_a
Guest
I find it ironic that these folks are also the oneās who, with their pastorās blessing, generally limit themselves to 2.2 kids.
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Nicea325
Guest
Well I never asked her why she chose celibacy,but nonetheless, I give her a lot of credit.It is not very common today to remain celibate. Again, as you know Dokimas,I must respect others religious beliefs.Happy 4th of July and may God Bless you and your loved ones.
Be safe!
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Nicea325
Guest
lol! :d
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Roman_Catholic_1
Guest
"MartinJordan:
Dokimas:
Roman_Catholic:
) not sincere. Oh nor do you have charity or love in your heart. I was trying to lighten the mood. It was, like you said, āquite the statementā. I failed. 
God bless you
The āimplicationsā of you not accepting Mary having only one child meant, according to MartinJordan, that you were (obviously
) not sincere. Oh nor do you have charity or love in your heart. I was trying to lighten the mood. It was, like you said, āquite the statementā. I failed. God bless you
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stephe1987
Guest
Itās NOT impossible in todayās world. In fact, I read within the last year or so about two women who are over 100 years old and are still virgins. And they arenāt even religious! They simply chose not to marry, and not to have relations with men.
What I want to know is:
I donāt see why the Catholic Church would teach that Mary was an eternal virgin if it wasnāt true. To make people leave the Church from disagreement? No, they want people to stay in the Church, and encourage new people to join as well.
Would Mary still be worthy of respect if she had relations with Joseph? Yes.
Mary having relations with her husband is not a sin, nor would it negate the fact that she gave birth to Jesus.
So why teach that she didnāt have relations with Joseph, unless that is the truth?
What I want to know is:
- Why did Mary seem so shocked to find out she would give birth to Jesus, if she was planning on having marital relations with Joseph? Jesus would just be a baby they had together, and the soul would be that of the holy spirit (biologically, he would be Mary and Josephās son so heād look like them).
- Why did the angel Gabriel visit Joseph to tell him not to be afraid to take Mary as his wife because she would be pregnant by the holy spirit? If he was going to have relations with her, Maryās being pregnant would not be a surprise and would not need a warning from an angel.
I donāt see why the Catholic Church would teach that Mary was an eternal virgin if it wasnāt true. To make people leave the Church from disagreement? No, they want people to stay in the Church, and encourage new people to join as well.
- People who are married to each other can have marital relations without committing a sin.
- Mary was married to Joseph.
- Mary would not have sinned by having relations with Joseph.
Would Mary still be worthy of respect if she had relations with Joseph? Yes.
Mary having relations with her husband is not a sin, nor would it negate the fact that she gave birth to Jesus.
So why teach that she didnāt have relations with Joseph, unless that is the truth?
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guanophore
Guest
Good points S.Emily! Welcome to CAF,a nd to the thread. The testimony of history seems to have no influence on some of these people.
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guanophore
Guest
In that day and age, women did not have rights as legal persons. They were considered the property of the men. A woman was under the jursidiction of the eldest male relative, until she was given by him to the care of another. That is why Jesus explained that, if a man divorced a woman, she was forced to commit to adultery. She would have to move in with another man.
The only women who did not have a male guardian (or husband) were prostitutes.
this is also why Mary could not travel alone to see her Son, but had to go in the custody fo male relatives. This tradition is still practiced in very strict Palestinian and Arab cultures.
No, she considered herself the spouse of the Holy Spirit.
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guanophore
Guest
You are right, of course. The problem here is that the HS does not contradict Himself. He does not reveal a doctrine to some several individuals 2000 years after he revealed the opposite to the Early Church. Therefore, someone got their wires crossed.
Do you honestly believe that the HS was too weak to correct this mistake until the Modern Evangelical Movement came along?
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guanophore
Guest
Yes, and not accurate, as we can see. You are a very good example of a sincere person who is just unable to accept the Apostolic Teaching on this point. It is what happens when the Holy Scriptures are separated from the Apostolic Tradition that produced them.
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guanophore
Guest
The problem with this approach is that the use of the word in context is a Hebraism. The meaning of a Hebraism is best understood from the time in which it was commonly used. It is not used in that manner today.
The other problem is making doctrines based upon āimplicationsā of the text. Doctrine is to be received from those who are authorized to preserve it, not gleaned out of the text by āimplicationā 2000 years after the fact!
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Hesychios
Guest
I donāt think that this claim can be substantiated.
It is modern Latin Catholics who tend to consider her the spouse of the Holy Spirit, but there is nothing in Tradition to show the early church ever considered that. It is more of a āreading backā of modern ideas (with big implications) into history.
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guanophore
Guest
Is he wrong? Why are you rejecting the Strongs def? Why are you substituting a modern language use for the ancient one?
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guanophore
Guest
But he has! He has repeatedly listed the verses that he believes refer to the children of Mary. The fact that they donāt SAY these people are the offspring of Mary, the mother of Jesus, is irrelevant.**And you STILL havenāt pointed us to any Biblical verse, Church tradition or extrabiblical source that says Mary gave birth to *****other ***children, have you?
**Yeah - *thatās ***what I thought . . .
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