Mary, the Mother of God

[Mannyfit75]

Does one get extra points for saying: Holy Mary, Mother of God? How many does it take to get beatified? Sorry, Manny, this Christian is really uncomfortable with the veneration of any mere mortal.

Mary is already blessed as stated in her beautiful prayer to the Father. “All generations will call me blessed.” I find it strange for you to be uncomfortable for a “Christian” about this honor bestowed upon the Mother of Our Lord. She is our spiritual mother since we have been adapted brothers and sisters of Jesus Christ through our baptism. We can rightly claim that Mary is our mother also. As a Christian, I obey the commandment, “honor your father and mother.” This honor bestowed upon her does not make her greater than Jesus Christ since our Catholic worship is Christ centered (Eucharistic Worship).

You find it uncomfortable to call Mary, Holy Mary, Mother of God? Did she not carried YOUR Lord Jesus Christ in her womb for 9 months. The child in her womb is Holy. A human person who carries God in her womb is an honor. It seems to me that you think Mary as something dirty and impure. I do not believe God would permit himself to be born of someone who unfit to carry the Lord of Lords, King of Kings, Creator of us all.

Let me put this way, would you allow Jesus to come to your house and it has trash all over? I am sure you want to prepare when he comes and make sure that your house in order.

What is your take on Luke 11:27? The veneration of the womb and paps is countered with a yea, rather… What does the Douay-Confraternity say?

Luke 11:27 states, "As he said this, a woman in the crowd raised her voice and said to him, “Blessed is the womb that bore you, and the breast that you sucked!” But he said, “Blessed rather are those who hear the word of God and keep it.”

This verse is often use to defame Mary by Evangelicals such as yourself. However, it is not. We Catholics afirm what the Luke 11:27 says about Mary. Jesus acknowledged his mother for she hear the Word of God and keep it. When the Angel Gabriel came to her and bring her that she is about to bear a son, who is the savior of the World, she accepted and agreed. Throughout her lifeline, Mary have remain faithful to God. Compare to the rest of the Apostles (except John), she remain with Jesus even at in his death. That my friend is mother’s love for her son. She loved him. Second, why would Jesus insult his mother. He himself would be breaking the ten commandments, “Honor your father and your mother.” Jesus remain obedient to the commandments and he acted upon it. When he was twelve, Jesus was obedient to his parents (see Luke 2:51-52) and he remain so through his 33 yrs on this planet.

 

[Departed_Light]

If you don’t think Mary is the mother of God, who do you think Jesus is?

 

[elvisman]

Then there is Vatican II–there seem to be two Roman churches after Vatican II, one Latin the other not sure–What is this? Who has the keys now?Are we going through a series of anti-popes?

There is no such thing as the “Roman Church”. There is the Catholic Church, started by Jesus Christ 2000 years ago.

Jesus said,“In vain they do worship, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.”

This is precisely what the fruits of Protestantism have produced - doctrines and traditions of men.

What is this? An inquisition in cyberspace?

I believe that the virgin called Mary is the mother of Jesus, the Christ. Jehovah has no mother nor father.

I will not recant.

Now what?

Peace,

James Least

Either you believe that Jesus is the 2nd Person in the Trinity (God) or you don’t.
Tell me something - do you believe that he is God?

 

[NDfan]

Mary is mediatrix par excellence in giving birth to Christ all grace comes thorough her because Christ the source of all grace came though her. She could have said no. Yet she said, behold the handmaid of the Lord let it be done according to thy word. Mary co-operated freely willingly and fully without self interest. Submitting totally to God.

All people of God are mediators in that we can mediate by witnessing, correcting, praying or offering our sufferings in union with Christ, for those who do not know Christ. when we suffer, witness or live for Christ we are co-redeemer’s with Christ in that he uses us to touch others even as he used Mary to touch all humanity thru her co-operation. Our co-redeeming touches maybe one or two or even thousands, depending on the person and the grace God gives to our co-operation, if we do nothing with our gift we may loose our own soul as the man who did not even get interest on the talent given him by the Lord, Mt 25:24-30.

This does not take away from Christ the one mediator, Christ shares his mediatorship and all he has and is with his people. He shares his priesthood with all his people making us a royal priesthood.

Probably the best explanation I’ve read on this. I have just one question. I agree Mary could have said no. So let’s suppose she did. Does that mean GOD could not have brought Christ into this world through another woman?? The reason I ask is there are some Catholic Theologians that interpret the phrase “let it be down according to thy word” as more of an authoritative declaration of Mary. Meaning it’s done because I said so and if Mary would have said no then the world would not be saved. Then there are those that see it as more of a humble response. Meaning if this is the will of GOD then I submit to His will as a humble servant.

How do you explain Mary’s response?

Thanks

 

[bpbasilphx]

\There is no such thing as the “Roman Church”. There is the Catholic Church, started by Jesus Christ 2000 years ago.\

**Yes, there is. It uses the Roman Rite and follows Roman Canon Law. Not all Catholic Churches (and I did NOT say Orthodox, did I?) use the Roman Rite.

There are over 20 (depending on how you count them) sui juris Catholic Churches. One of them is the Roman Church, which is NOT the totality, or even the standard, for the Catholic Church.**

 

[ralphinal]

\There is no such thing as the “Roman Church”. There is the Catholic Church, started by Jesus Christ 2000 years ago.\

**Yes, there is. It uses the Roman Rite and follows Roman Canon Law. Not all Catholic Churches (and I did NOT say Orthodox, did I?) use the Roman Rite.

There are over 20 (depending on how you count them) sui juris Catholic Churches. One of them is the Roman Church, which is NOT the totality, or even the standard, for the Catholic Church.**

But it is the largest

 

[jimmy]

Don’t forget about the schism of the Assyrian Church of the East.

Yes, that only furthers the point. The question with the Church of the East is the unity of the natures of Christ, so it is part of the same debate as the Oriental Orthodox. The difference is that the Church of the East is the opposite expression as that of the Orientals. They reject Mary as mother of God because they insist on the distinction between the natures of Christ. They tended to have problems with Mary as mother of God for similar reasons the protestants have them but these problems weren’t founded on the the theology that Mother of God or Theotokos from. The Alexandrians, who supported the term Theotokos and Mother of God, did not mean that Mary generated the divine nature or begot it in any sense. What it means is simply that Mary concieved and bore and gave birth to a divine person. It is a person she is the mother of, not a nature, so to say that Mary is not the mother of God is antiscriptural simply because Elizabeth called Mary ‘the mother of my Lord.’ She is not the mother of the humanity or the divinity but of the divine person, who became man. That makes her mother of God.

 

[jimmy]

But it is the largest

So? What does that matter?

 

[ralphinal]

So? What does that matter?

It is the reason that people tend to wrongly ignore the other parts. They focus on the center of mass and ignore the rest. Wrongly.

 

[jimmy]

What is this? An inquisition in cyberspace?

I believe that the virgin called Mary is the mother of Jesus, the Christ. Jehovah has no mother nor father.

I will not recant.

Now what?

Peace,

James Least

You sound like a modernist, individualist who wants to exalt yourself over God. You profess faith in the type of god you want and the type you feel comfortable with. With your statement you have essentially rejected the incarnation.

 

[jlhargus]

Probably the best explanation I’ve read on this. I have just one question. I agree Mary could have said no. So let’s suppose she did. Does that mean GOD could not have brought Christ into this world through another woman?? The reason I ask is there are some Catholic Theologians that interpret the phrase “let it be down according to thy word” as more of an authoritative declaration of Mary. Meaning it’s done because I said so and if Mary would have said no then the world would not be saved. Then there are those that see it as more of a humble response. Meaning if this is the will of GOD then I submit to His will as a humble servant. How do you explain Mary’s response? Thanks

JL: I am not a theologian so I don’t know what God would have done. However we do know God knew who THE WOMEN, Gn3:15, would be from the begining and our Lord certainly knew what her response would be. That doesn’t mean the decision was not Mary’s to make, our Lord simply knew it would be yes. God is never taken by surprise. If our Lord was very particular as to the OT ark made by hands, we can be sure he was much more particular about the NT ark made without hands.

[Ex25:8 And let them MAKE ME A SANCTUARY; THAT I MAY DWELL AMONG THEM. 9 ACCORDING TO ALL that I SHEW THEE, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it. 10 Have them MAKE A CHEST OF ACACIA WOOD—two and a half cubits long, a cubit and a half wide, and a cubit and a half high. 11 OVERLAY IT WITH PURE GOLD, BOTH INSIDE AND OUT, and make a gold molding around it. Ex25:40 See that you make them according to the pattern shown you on the mountain.]

If the Lord wanted the ark of the old covenant, made by hands, made to exact pattern and specific detail, from acacia wood and covered inside and out with PURE GOLD, that he may dwell among us. How much more would he cover the flesh, body and soul, of the living ark of the new covenant, not made by hands, with the purity of the Holy Spirit inside and out, that he may dwell among us. Mary the living ark would contain, in her womb, the real living Word of God, CHRIST, the real living Bread of Life, CHRIST, and the real living High Priest, CHRIST. Not just symbols as the ark made by hands contained, but the actual realities. As our Lord says in Ex25:22 THERE, ABOVE THE COVER BETWEEN THE TWO CHERUBIM THAT ARE OVER THE ARK OF THE TESTIMONY, I WILL MEET WITH YOU AND GIVE YOU ALL MY COMMANDS FOR THE ISRAELITES.

 

[James_Least]

There is no such thing as the “Roman Church”. There is the Catholic Church, started by Jesus Christ 2000 years ago.

**This is precisely **what the fruits of Protestantism have produced - doctrines and traditions of men.

Either you believe that Jesus is the 2nd Person in the Trinity (God) or you don’t.
Tell me something - do you believe that he is God?

Allow me to preface this with a public apology: I have broken some rules of decorum in the process of exercising religious zeal. I was not trying to derail the topic. I am sorry.

Yes, I believe Jesus is God in flesh, Immanuel. Jesus said, “If you have seen me, you have seen The Father.”

I have concerns with Mary being Immaculate and perpetual. If she had no original sin, what about her mother and her mother’s mother? The sin nature is actually handed down the gene pool through the father. "By one man sin entered the world and death by sin; for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God; there are none righteous, not one. What is the mechanism of Mary being without sin? Virginity and sinlessness are not the same. Was she deity from eternity?

Where will we be in a hundred years?

Selah,

James Least

 

[ralphinal]

Yes I believe Jesus is God in flesh, Immanuel. Jesus said, “If you have seen me, you have seen The Father.”

I have concerns with Mary being Immaculate and perpetual. If she had no original sin, what about her mother and her mother’s mother? The sin nature is actually handed down the gene pool through the father. "By one man sin entered the world and death by sin; for all have sinned and come short of the glory of God; there are none righteous, not one. What is the mechanism of Mary being without sin? Virginity and sinless are not the same. Was she deity from eternity?

Where will we be in a hundred years?

Selah,

James Least

Either God has power over sin or He does not. If he does, he can create a unique being without the stain of Original Sin.

IF all have sinned, what sin do children who die before the age of reason commit? What sin do mentally retarded people commit?

Basically, the Church teaches that through a singular (unique) act of God, Mary was preserved from the stain of original sin (which included concupiscence:the natural drifting from God that all humans have) so that she could be the perfect mother of the Word made Flesh

 

[bpbasilphx]

\The sin nature is actually handed down the gene pool through the father.\

There’s no such thing as “sin nature”. This is one of the Protestant traditions and precepts of men that are taught as doctrines and delude people with itching ears.

 

[agiosotheos]

What is this? An inquisition in cyberspace?

I believe that the virgin called Mary is the mother of Jesus, the Christ. Jehovah has no mother nor father.

I will not recant.

Now what?

Peace,

James Least

So essentially you’re saying that Jesus is not one in deity with the Father?

 

[agiosotheos]

There is no such thing as the “Roman Church”. There is the Catholic Church, started by Jesus Christ 2000 years ago.

Of which the Diocese of Rome is not a part.

 

[agiosotheos]

It is a person she is the mother of, not a nature

To use the word “nature” in that way, however, is to betray a bias towards a commonly Roman and Byzantine understanding of the term, as the OO would be perfectly comfortable stating that Mary gave birth to the nature of God the Word Incarnate.

 

[agiosotheos]

\The sin nature is actually handed down the gene pool through the father.\

There’s no such thing as “sin nature”.

What do you mean by that?

 

[James_Least]

You sound like a modernist, individualist who wants to exalt yourself over God. You profess faith in the type of god you want and the type you feel comfortable with. With your statement you have essentially rejected the incarnation.

The subject is Mary and "Mother of God’. God, The Spirit, The Holy–Pneuma Hagion, overshadowed a virgin called Mary and she conceived and gave birth to her FIRSTBORN SON. ( What does firstborn mean?) All the glory goes to God. This does not make Mary the Mother of God. God, Gen. 1:1, (Elohim, Jehovah; not Allah, etal) has no mother nor father.

Incarnation? Yes indeed: " The Word became flesh and dwelt among us; and we beheld His Glory as of the only begotten of the father, full of Grace and Truth. ( I AM THAT I AM in the flesh)

The Son of God is eternal as well. Why are we fixated on this motherhood thing? Where is this Queen of Heaven found in scripture?

Where will we be in 100 years?
Are we sure?

Peace,

James Least

 

[James_Least]

There is no such thing as the “Roman Church”. There is the Catholic Church, started by Jesus Christ 2000 years ago.

**This is precisely **what the fruits of Protestantism have produced - doctrines and traditions of men.

Either you believe that Jesus is the 2nd Person in the Trinity (God) or you don’t.
Tell me something - do you believe that he is God?

The Roman church to which I refer is the one headquartered in the Sovereign State, aka Vatican, located on Vatican Hill on land donated by the mother of Constantine the Great, circa 4th century. Constantine was the one with the " in hoc signo vinces " apparition which caused him to set up “Christianity” as the state religion while throwing out the pagans. The term: pontifex maximus came out of these caesarian adventures as well. This same czar moved his empirical capital to Constantinople in the same century. Then there was WEST and EAST-- churches too. They did not always agree-- alot. Still do not agree about who is authorized. Can they both be right? Could they both be wrong?

What think you?

Where will we be in 100 years?

James Least
Just a pilgrim passing through to gloryland.