Mary

[fcfahs]

Axion:

…(snip)…
What I was objecting to was not the idea that an interpretation that the Woman can be seen as the Church exists, but to the dogmatic statement in your bible note that the Woman is **not ** Mary!

In fact many more important voices have said she is…

Paul VI, Signum Magnum, May 13, 1967 AAS 59: “The great sign which the Apostle John saw in heaven, ‘a woman clothed with the sun’ is interpreted by the sacred liturgy, not without foundation, as referring to the most Blessed Mary, the Mother of all men by the grace of Christ the Redeemer.”

John Paul II, Redemptoris Mater, March 15, 1987. “… she who was the one ‘full of grace’ was brought into the mystery of Christ in order to be his Mother and thus the Holy Mother of God, through the Church remains in that mystery as ‘the woman’ spoken of by the Book of Genesis (3:15) at the beginning and by the Apocalypse (12:1) at the end of the history of salvation.”

St. Pius X, Ad diem illum. *** 36. 458 - 59: “No one of us does not know that that woman signifies the Virgin Mary, who brought forth our Head with her virginity intact. But the Apostle continues: 'And being with child, she cried out, laboring in birth, and was in pain to be delivered. ’ Therefore John saw the Most Holy Mother of God already enjoying eternal happiness, and yet laboring from some hidden birth. With what birth? Surely ours, we who, being yet detained in exile, are still to be brought forth to the perfect love of God and eternal happiness.”

Pius XII, Munificentissimus Deus. : “…the Scholastic doctors have considered the Assumption of the Virgin Mother of God as signified not only in the various figures of the Old Testament, but also in that woman clothed with the sun, whom the Apostle John contemplated on the island of Patmos.”

Nice sharing thoughts with you, Axion. I applaud your faith and conviction in what you have presented here and truely value your (name removed by moderator)ut.

May God continue to bless and guide you.

Frank

 

[MarkAnthonyCozy]

I’ve been out of town and have been reading this thread as it has unfolded.

I heard a fundamentalist preacher, well versed in scripture, give a long discourse comparing scripture to scripture in which he showed that throughout the Old Testament that when the sun, moon, and earth are mentioned together it can be shown that the sun symbolizes God, the moon symbolizes the Church, and the earth symbolizes the world in which we live.

When reviewing Joseph’s vision in Gen 37:9, it is the stars themselves that represent the tribes of Israel.

In Rev 12:1 there is a woman clothed with God the Holy Spirit(Luke 1:35), with Israel as her crown and the Church at her feet. A woman who bridges the gap between the Old Israel and the New Israel, between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant; a woman who’s seed, Faithful and True, crushes the head of the serpent.

Mary the most marvelous of all of God’s creations, restoring that order which was lost as shown in Ezekiel 28:12-17, so that man’s new state and glory with God exceeds the first.

The most beautiful of God’s angel’s was cast down because of his pride and was replaced by the most blessed of all women who became the new “light bearer.”

Who are we to question God’s infinite wisdom in what He has established. It is marvelous to all who behold God’s glory, who see with the eyes of faith.

 

[fcfahs]

MarkAnthonyCozy:

I’ve been out of town and have been reading this thread as it has unfolded.

I heard a fundamentalist preacher, well versed in scripture, give a long discourse comparing scripture to scripture in which he showed that throughout the Old Testament that when the sun, moon, and earth are mentioned together it can be shown that the sun symbolizes God, the moon symbolizes the Church, and the earth symbolizes the world in which we live.

When reviewing Joseph’s vision in Gen 37:9, it is the stars themselves that represent the tribes of Israel.

In Rev 12:1 there is a woman clothed with God the Holy Spirit(Luke 1:35), with Israel as her crown and the Church at her feet. A woman who bridges the gap between the Old Israel and the New Israel, between the Old Covenant and the New Covenant; a woman who’s seed, Faithful and True, crushes the head of the serpent.

Mary the most marvelous of all of God’s creations, restoring that order which was lost as shown in Ezekiel 28:12-17, so that man’s new state and glory with God exceeds the first.

The most beautiful of God’s angel’s was cast down because of his pride and was replaced by the most blessed of all women who became the new “light bearer.”

Who are we to question God’s infinite wisdom in what He has established. It is marvelous to all who behold God’s glory, who see with the eyes of faith.

Now THIS is an explanation I can much more live with, because all of the pieces of the prophecy have been made to fit and fit seamlessly! Before this, no one had identified how Mary was tied to the the sun, the moon, and the 12 stars (which surely represents the 12 tribes of Israel.)

Thank you Mark.

 

[fcfahs]

RyanL:

(in reply to fcfahs statement “Furthermore, if you read Rev.12 closely, you’ll find that Jesus is not part of John’s Rev.12 imagery…”

old axiom proved yet again: “if you lose it on Mary, you’ll lose it on Jesus”.

when you start to deny who mary was, you wind up denying who Jesus was. if you deny “mother of God”, you lose “Jesus is God”. if you deny the immaculate conception, you end up losing how Jesus conquers satan. such is the case with all marian dogmas…they are essential for our understanding of who Christ was and who, as christians, we are called to be.

“Rev 12:5She gave birth to a son, a male child, who will rule all the nations with an iron scepter. And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne.”

Right. the Son of the woman, who would rule all nations and is now seated at the right hand of the Father couldn’t have anything to do with Jesus, could it?!?

pure butchering of sacred scripture.

may the Lord cause the scales to fall from your eyes,
RyanL

You’re way off target with this post, man, and pretty uncharitable (with your closing remark) to boot! Obviously, you are not saavy to the crux of what Axion and I were discussing about the symbolism in Rev.12. My statement that "Jesus is not part of John’s Rev.12 imagery, for John’s only Rev.12 reference to Jesus is found in verse 17, where he says “And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Jesus Christ.” was mearly to say that the word Jesus was not used as a symbol in Rev.12, as were the woman, the dragon, the sun, the moon, and the crown of 12 stars. Axion knew what I was trying to clarify, as obviated from his subsequent post. Unfortunately you did not!

But, “thank you” for your “gracious” post. I will pray for you too.

 

[fcfahs]

An comments on the credibility of these Messages From The Immaculate Heart, revealed
through private revelations to the locutionist known as “Little Mary?”

Seems to me that such revelation (reasonable or not) would conflict with Rev. 22:18-19.

 

[RyanL]

fcfahs:

You’re way off target with this post, man, and pretty uncharitable (with your closing remark) to boot!

Easy, killer! E-communication is the worst at relaying actual meaning/inflection. There was nothing hostile in my post, and I apologize if it came across that way (in re-reading it, I see your point). Please understand that I had just finished another post on another thread where the vehemently anti-Mary poster was insisting that Mary wasn’t in Rev 12, Jesus wasn’t in Rev 12, and it was only wishful thinking to see either one there. I guess I was stuck in defense mode…

fcfahs:

Obviously, you are not saavy to the crux of what Axion and I were discussing about the symbolism in Rev.12. My statement that "Jesus is not part of John’s Rev.12 imagery…was mearly to say that the word Jesus was not used as a symbol in Rev.12, as were the woman, the dragon, the sun, the moon, and the crown of 12 stars. Axion knew what I was trying to clarify, as obviated from his subsequent post. Unfortunately you did not!

In re-reading…I still think I’m missing it. I’m just going to bow out of this thread.

fcfahs:

But, “thank you” for your “gracious” post. I will pray for you too.

I would love your prayers! If I have scales on my eyes, preventing me from reading hearts through posters’ words, I pray that they may fall. May almighty God bless you and keep you,
RyanL

 

[fcfahs]

RyanL:

In re-reading…I still think I’m missing it. I’m just going to bow out of this thread.

I would love your prayers! If I have scales on my eyes, preventing me from reading hearts through posters’ words, I pray that they may fall. May almighty God bless you and keep you,
RyanL

You are a real Catholic afterall. Thank you for softening your “blow.” (To be sure, the Lord has chastised me enough for my mistakes in this life, I can ill afford any more.) Notwithstanding, I do apologize for my poor syntactical construction and choice of words in that post - you are, no doubt, not the only one I “missiled” with it.

As for my prayers, my friend, you already have them!

Peace

 

[fcfahs]

This is a repeat of an earlier post of mine on this thread, but I’m posting it again because it was never replied to and I sure would like some opinions…

An comments on the credibility of these Messages From The Immaculate Heart, revealed via private revelations to the locutionist known as “Little Mary?”

Seems to me that such revelation (consistent with Catholic doctrine or not) would conflict with Rev. 22:18-19.

Thanks.