Mary

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We all know that Mother Mary lived with the Holy Spirit inside of her and gave birth to our saviour.

My question is, is when the angel apeared to her and asked her for consent to cary a child, wasn’t she in away already married to the Holy Spirit because of the immaculate conception?
 
We all know that Mother Mary lived with the Holy Spirit inside of her and gave birth to our saviour.

My question is, is when the angel apeared to her and asked her for consent to cary a child, wasn’t she in away already married to the Holy Spirit because of the immaculate conception?
No…
 
What I’m thinking. It has to do with the specific grace she was conceived with, not her relationship with the Holy Spirit. That relationship was clearly established at the Incarnation. Actually, the grace associated with her immaculate conception might/must also have preserved her from receiving any genetic abnormalities in her parents’ DNA.
 
The Blessed Virgin was engaged to St Joseph at that time. St Joseph became her most chaste spouse and protector of the Holy Family. St Joseph is Patron of the Universal Church. He is mentioned as Mary’s spouse in the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

The Holy Spirit begat Jesus Christ. She was St Joseph’s fiancé, and then bride.
The Immaculate Conception was the Conception of Blessed Mary free from Original Sin, by the Grace of God. Thus Mary is free from the domain of Her adversary. Jesus was also conceived free from Original Sin. So Jesus also, was free from the domain of satan.

Our bodies. We are , temples of the Holy Spirit. Both The Blessed Virgin, and Jesus Christ , were full of the Holy Spirit. In comparison, I might, by the Grace of God, have half a fingernail’s worth filled with the Holy Spirit 🙏🔥
 
The Blessed Virgin was engaged to St Joseph at that time. St Joseph became her most chaste spouse and protector of the Holy Family. St Joseph is Patron of the Universal Church. He is mentioned as Mary’s spouse in the Liturgy of the Eucharist.

The Holy Spirit begat Jesus Christ. She was St Joseph’s fiancé, and then bride.
The Immaculate Conception was the Conception of Blessed Mary free from Original Sin, by the Grace of God. Thus Mary is free from the domain of Her adversary. Jesus was also conceived free from Original Sin. So Jesus also, was free from the domain of satan.

Our bodies. We are , temples of the Holy Spirit. Both The Blessed Virgin, and Jesus Christ , were full of the Holy Spirit. In comparison, I might, by the Grace of God, have half a fingernail’s worth filled with the Holy Spirit 🙏🔥
Hi. You seem to think for some reason that being the chaste bride of St. Joseph somehow means that Our Lady was not the Mystical Spouse of the Holy Spirit. May I suggest that you look at what the Church teaches in this respect. We become Temples of the Holy Spirit via our baptism. Our Lady was the New Ark of the Covenant. While St. Joseph was her protector, she remained a virgin, and therefore, was married to the Holy Spirit in that most perfect sense. And too, if one is the Mother of God, then marriage to God in the mystical sense, must be.

If you were still not seemingly having problems reconciling Our Lady’s relationship with the Holy Spirit while Mary being married to Joseph, this paragraph, as a paragraph in itself, reads to be very good:

‘The Holy Spirit begat Jesus Christ. She was St Joseph’s fiancé, and then bride.
The Immaculate Conception was the Conception of Blessed Mary free from Original Sin, by the Grace of God. Thus Mary is free from the domain of Her adversary. Jesus was also conceived free from Original Sin. So Jesus also, was free from the domain of satan.’
 
Hi. You seem to think for some reason that being the chaste bride of St. Joseph somehow means that Our Lady was not the Mystical Spouse of the Holy Spirit. May I suggest that you look at what the Church teaches in this respect. We become Temples of the Holy Spirit via our baptism. Our Lady was the New Ark of the Covenant. While St. Joseph was her protector, she remained a virgin, and therefore, was married to the Holy Spirit in that most perfect sense. And too, if one is the Mother of God, then marriage to God in the mystical sense, must be.

If you were still not seemingly having problems reconciling Our Lady’s relationship with the Holy Spirit while Mary being married to Joseph, this paragraph, as a paragraph in itself, reads to be very good:

‘The Holy Spirit begat Jesus Christ. She was St Joseph’s fiancé, and then bride.
The Immaculate Conception was the Conception of Blessed Mary free from Original Sin, by the Grace of God. Thus Mary is free from the domain of Her adversary. Jesus was also conceived free from Original Sin. So Jesus also, was free from the domain of satan.’
I have absolutely no problems whatsoever in knowing St Joseph is the most chaste spouse of the Blessed Virgin Mary. And I hear my Priests say this everyday in the Liturgy of the Eucharist. Even, my Bishop and Bishop Emeritus say it. Bet the Pope even says that in his Liturgy of The Eucharist , when he chooses that prayer.

Yes we are temples of the Holy Spirit. Its hoped we all treat our bodies as such. Some are graced more in this respect. For example :

‘Hail full of Grace’

Your logic for why St Joseph is regulated a back seat as a Spouse, is your personal opinion. Its not a valid theological argument. Mother of God does not equal married to God. Did not an Angel appear, from God, to St Joseph, telling him to Marry The Blessed Virgin? To be her spouse?

Friard chips…
if God sends His ArchAngel to sort out who the Spouse of His Son is going to be, and then, gets the Holy Spirit to inspire those writing the Gospel, to write about it, and then gets the Holy Spirit to inspire the Liturgy of The Eucharist to state who the Most Chaste Spouse is, ( you must hear this in Mass ?) ; well that’s good enough for me.

Be nice if St Joseph was given the honour he earned and deserved as the husband, the person married to The Blessed Virgin, and as the foster father of Jesus, and His protector.
 
We all know that Mother Mary lived with the Holy Spirit inside of her and gave birth to our Saviour.

My question is, is when the angel appeared to her and asked her for consent to carry a child, wasn’t she in away already married to the Holy Spirit because of the immaculate conception?
Another of God’s GREAT Mysteries. I try NOT to read into them with my imagination. Some questions will never be fully answered in this life. Trust God! When we say “Spouse of the Holy Spirit” it doesn’t mean the same as spouse of St. Joseph. We live with the Holy Spirit in us too after we are Baptized and Confirmed but that doesn’t make us the “Spouse of the Holy Spirit”. God Bless, Memaw
 
Also If mary wasn’t in away married to the Holy Spirit then God would have been breaking his own commandments,which is contradictory to him.
 
I have absolutely no problems whatsoever in knowing St Joseph is the most chaste spouse of the Blessed Virgin Mary. And I hear my Priests say this everyday in the Liturgy of the Eucharist. Even, my Bishop and Bishop Emeritus say it. Bet the Pope even says that in his Liturgy of The Eucharist , when he chooses that prayer.

Yes we are temples of the Holy Spirit. Its hoped we all treat our bodies as such. Some are graced more in this respect.
Dramatic understatement.
For example :
‘Hail full of Grace’
Huge understatement further underlining your massive first understatement.
Your logic
Not my logic.
…for why St Joseph is regulated a back seat as a Spouse,
Some might consider this as a measure of saintly humility rather than “backseat driving”.
…is your personal opinion. Its not a valid theological argument.
Incorrect x2
Mother of God does not equal married to God. Did not an Angel appear, from God, to St Joseph, telling him to Marry The Blessed Virgin? To be her spouse?
You’ve been answered in this subject before.
Friard chips…
if God sends His ArchAngel to sort out who the Spouse of His Son is going to be, and then, gets the Holy Spirit to inspire those writing the Gospel, to write about it, and then gets the Holy Spirit to inspire the Liturgy of The Eucharist to state who the Most Chaste Spouse is, ( you must hear this in Mass ?) ; well that’s good enough for me.
One of his archangels.

You mean foster father of His Son.
Be nice if St Joseph was given the honour he earned and deserved as the husband, the person married to The Blessed Virgin, and as the foster father of Jesus, and His protector.
He is honoured.

However, you contradicted yourself here. Because you also just used the term ‘foster father’. So who is the actual Father? And if God is the actual Father, then Mary is Mother, Handmaiden and Mystical Spouse, of God, and this is not MY logic,.
 
webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:EYmaQRmSufYJ:https://udayton.edu/imri/mary/m/magisterial-documents-mary-and-the-holy-spirit.php+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=opera

Someone posted this on this forum a couple or so weeks back.

*'Magisterial Documents: Mary and the Holy Spirit

Below are direct quotes from Post-Vatican II Magisterial Documents concerning the following themes. These teachings of the Catholic Church may prove useful to include in talks, in homilies or for research.’*

*‘To All Consecrated Persons, Marian Year, 1988
*
[Mary’s motherhood] is to be transferred from her as a “model” to the whole Church, which will be revealed to the world on the day of the descent of the Holy Spirit, the Paraclete. 21 Mary, the Mystical Spouse of the Holy Spirit 39’

*‘Behold Your Mother (USA), 1973
*
The vivifying power of the unseen Spirit overshadows the Virgin, and God is made visibly present as the Son of Mary. **The Mother of Jesus is the new and perfect ark of the covenant. **27’

'Marialis Cultus, 1974

[the Fathers] saw in the Spirit’s intervention an action that consecrated and made fruitful Mary’s virginity (Ambrose, etc) and transformed her into the “Abode of the King” or “Bridal Chamber of the Word,” (ibid) the “Temple” or “Tabernacle of the Lord,” (Jerome, etc) the “Ark of the Covenant” or “the Ark of Holiness,” (Severus of Antioch, etc) titles rich in biblical echoes. 26’

*'Aspects beyond Incarnation itself

“all the saving influences of the Blessed Virgin…” (LG 60) This saving influence is sustained by the Holy Spirit, who, just as he overshadowed the Virgin Mary when he began in her the divine motherhood, in a similar way constantly sustains her solicitude for the brothers and sisters of her Son. '*

*‘Marialis Cultus, 1974
*
Thus, for example, some Fathers and writers of the Church attributed to the work of the Spirit the original holiness of Mary, who was as it were “fashioned by the Holy Spirit into a kind of new substance and new creature.” (LG 56) 26’

*'Lumen Gentium, 1964
*
temple of the Holy Spirit 53
Because of this gift of sublime grace she far surpasses all creatures, both in heaven and on earth. 53

unique holiness…hailed…by divine command, as “full of grace.” (cf. Lk 1:28) 56

[Note: items under **“holiness” and “exalted” refer to grace.]’

'Marialis Cultus, 1974

[liturgy, doctrinal theme] Temple of the Holy Spirit 11

[The Fathers] saw in the mysterious relationship between the Spirit and Mary an aspect redolent of marriage, poetically portrayed by Prudentius: “The unwed Virgin espoused the Spirit,” and they called her the “Temple of the Holy Spirit,” (Isidore) an expression that emphasizes the sacred character of the Virgin, now the permanent dwelling of the Spirit of God. 26

Mother of the Son of God, and therefore beloved daughter of the Father and Temple of the Holy Spirit - “Mary, who, because of this extraordinary grace, is far greater than any other creature on earth or in heaven.” (LG 53) 56’

'Redemptoris Mater, 1987

[Mary is “full of grace,” … Incarnation … as a result] the temple of the Holy Spirit 9

Through the power of the Holy Spirit, in the order of grace, which is a participation in the divine nature, Mary receives life from him to whom she herself, in the order of earthly generation, gave life as a mother. 10’

'Gaudete in Domino, 1975

Spouse of the Spirit #'

And, from the Catechism:

webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:Ex1u-gUgzsAJ:www.vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p122a3p2.htm+&cd=1&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=uk&client=opera

'Let it be done to me according to your word. . .

139 Thus, giving her consent to God’s word, Mary becomes the mother of Jesus. Espousing the divine will for salvation wholeheartedly, without a single sin to restrain her, she gave herself entirely to the person and to the work of her Son; she did so in order to serve the mystery of redemption with him and dependent on him, by God’s grace:140…
 
Friard chips…
if God sends His ArchAngel to sort out who the Spouse of His Son is going to be, and then, gets the Holy Spirit to inspire those writing the Gospel
I actually think you were referring to the Annunciation at which God sent one of His Arch-Angels to Mary for her to be the Mother of God.

God didn’t have to “get the Holy Spirit” to do anything. The three distinct Persons are one God, in perfect unity.

I think what you are having problems configuring is how Mary can be Mother, Daughter and Mystical Spouse of God, at the same time as having a human husband. Maybe this example will help: married people, are still part of the Bride of Christ, which is the Body of Christ, the Church. Even though they are married to one another. Now, Our Lady, is the Model of the Church, and she is also the Beginning of the Church, both as Mother and a part of the Church. So, if people who are born into faith via baptism are part of the Bride of Christ, how can it be denied that Our Lady, who is the Immaculate Conception, who was overshadowed by the Holy Spirit, and became Mother of God, be anything less than His Mystical Spouse, in unique relationship.
 
I have nothing to add, but I have something to say.

This whole argument seems ridiculous to me, we know the Blessed Mother was ever Virgin, we know she was married to St. Joseph and we know that she is the mystical bride of the Holy Spirit. In fact I wonder if such debates are not an insult to the Blessed Mother and God Himself, who sometimes just wants us to have faith.

Case closed…thanks for reading my ramblings.
 
Mary was the mother of Jesus and was given birth to by her
 
I have nothing to add, but I have something to say.

This whole argument seems ridiculous to me, we know the Blessed Mother was ever Virgin, we know she was married to St. Joseph and we know that she is the mystical bride of the Holy Spirit. In fact I wonder if such debates are not an insult to the Blessed Mother and God Himself, who sometimes just wants us to have faith.

Case closed…thanks for reading my ramblings.
Exactly.
 
Listen to your Priests in the Liturgy of the Eucharist. This might help.

vatican.va/roman_curia/congregations/ccdds/documents/rc_con_ccdds_doc_20130501_san-giuseppe_en.html

And this Catechism. Where Blessed Virgin Mary conceived through the power of the Holy Spirit. And not through human seed. As told by the ArchAngel to Joseph , her Fiancé.

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p122a3p2.htmRedemptoris Mater (25 March 1987) | John Paul II

"And when the Virgin, disturbed by that extraordinary greeting, asks: “How shall this be, since I have no husband?” she receives from the angel the confirmation and explanation of the preceding words. Gabriel says to her: “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you; therefore the child to be born will be called holy, the Son of God” (Lk. 1:35).

So says ArchAngel Gabriel. The Power of the Most High is?
 
vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p122a3p2.htm

Mary – The Mystical Spouse of the Holy Spirit and the Wife of Joseph – The Fra Angelico Institute for Sacred Art

'Theologians, saints, and mystics have used marital language to express the love of God for His Church and the mystical relationship between our Blessed Mother and the Holy Spirit…

If we go back to the earliest writings of the Church, and quickly examine some sources, we see the “marital and spousal” aspect of this mystical language used in a second century AD document called the Odes of Solomon; and as we proceed up through history we see mention of it in the writings of St. Augustine (4th century)
, St. Ildephonsus, archbishop of Toledo, Spain (7th century), St. Germanus, patriarch of Constantinople (7th century), Cardinal St. Peter Damian (11th century), St. Bonaventure (13th century), Emmanuel d’Alzon (19th century), and, in the many scholars of the 20th century, such as Cardinal Joseph Suenens, Karl Rahner, Pope John Paul 2, Rev. Peter Damian M. Fehlner, F.F.I., and Pope Benedict 16th.

A few examples of how the word “spouse” is used in these theological contexts may be helpful. In 1979, on Pope John Paul 2 first pilgrimage to the United States, he gave a sermon on our Blessed Mother at the National Shrine of the Immaculate Conception and made this point in relation to Mary:

'“…Through her, the Sun of Justice was to rise in the world. Through her, the great healer of humanity, the reconciler of hearts and consciences, her Son, the God-Man, Jesus Christ, was to transform the human condition and by his death and resurrection, uplift the entire human family. As a great sign that appeared in the heavens, in the fullness of time, this woman dominates all history as the Virgin Mother of the Son, as the Spouse of the Holy Spirit, and as the Handmaid of humanity.” (excerpted from Mary’s Yes – Meditations on Mary Through The Ages, edited by John Rotelle, O.S.A., Servant Press, Ann Arbor, 1988)’

'In his important **1986 encyclical on the Holy Spirit ** “The Lord and Giver of Life” (Dominum et Vivificantem) Pope John Paul 2 continues to use these expressions to help explain his insights:

“…It is the [2nd Vatican] Council that says to us: “The Blessed Virgin…overshadowed by the Holy Spirit…brought forth…the Son…, he whom God placed as the first-born among many brethren namely the faithful (cf. Romans 8: 29). In their birth and development she cooperates with a maternal love”; she is through “his singular graces and offices…intimately united with the Church…. [She/Mary] is a model of the Church” (Lumen Gentium, note 63). “The Church, moreover, contemplating Mary’s mysterious sanctity, imitating her charity,…becomes herself a mother” and “herself a virgin, who keeps…the fidelity she has pledged to her Spouse. Imitating the Mother of the Lord, and by the power of the Holy Spirit, she preserves with a virginal purity an integral faith, a firm hope, and a sincere charity” (Lumen Gentium note 64).

Pope John Paul 2 continues, “Thus one can understand the profound reason why the Church, united with the Virgin Mother, prays unceasingly as the Bride to her Divine Spouse, as the words of the Book of Revelation, quoted by the [2nd Vatican] Council, attest: “The Spirit and the bride say to the Lord Jesus Christ: Come!” (Rev. 22: 17).’

Please understand that attempting to refute language used by the Saints and by the Catholic Church as a whole is not going to get you anywhere.

One must remain open, not closed, to understanding.
 
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