Mary's Assumption and Her Glorified Body

  • Thread starter Thread starter Holly3278
  • Start date Start date
Status
Not open for further replies.
ByzCathCantor said:
…that is really not the same as saying “at the moment of death”
Click to expand...
And just to show how contradictory tradition can be…

At todays memorial of Our Lady of Sorrows the Gospel Acclamation reads:
…without dying you won the martyr’s crown…"
 
Blue_Horizon said:
And just to show how contradictory tradition can be…

At todays memorial of Our Lady of Sorrows the Gospel Acclamation reads:
…without dying you won the martyr’s crown…"
Click to expand...
Can you print the source for this acclamation?

Here is what I find for the Mass of Our Lady of Sorrows (Saturday of the 23rd week in ordinary time): Universalis

Gospel Acclamation Jn14:6
Alleluia, alleluia!
I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, says the Lord;
No one can come to the Father except through me.
Alleluia!

Or Jn14:23
Alleluia, alleluia!
If anyone loves me he will keep my word,
and my Father will love him,
and we shall come to him.
Alleluia!

Neither do I find such a prayer in the Divine Office for today.
 
I checked out Ott’s book–Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma in paperback and on page 207 it states Mary suffered a temporal death. (Sent. communior.)

What does that mean?

Since John Paul II in an audience on June 25, 1997 taught that Mary indeed died–how much weight does his teaching have?
 
Jerry-Jet said:
I checked out Ott’s book–Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma in paperback and on page 207 it states Mary suffered a temporal death. (Sent. communior.)

What does that mean?

Since John Paul II in an audience on June 25, 1997 taught that Mary indeed died–how much weight does his teaching have?
Click to expand...
I think that means she really, really died.
 
AmbroseSJ said:
Can you print the source for this acclamation?

Here is what I find for the Mass of Our Lady of Sorrows (Saturday of the 23rd week in ordinary time): Universalis

Gospel Acclamation Jn14:6
Alleluia, alleluia!
I am the Way, the Truth and the Life, says the Lord;
No one can come to the Father except through me.
Alleluia!

Or Jn14:23
Alleluia, alleluia!
If anyone loves me he will keep my word,
and my Father will love him,
and we shall come to him.
Alleluia!

Neither do I find such a prayer in the Divine Office for today.
Click to expand...
ASJ try here liturgies.net/saints/mary/ladyofsorrows/eucharist.htm
Perhaps it is a Australian/Sthrn Hemisphere thing. Very strange.

I tried to track down the origins of this liturgy and related acclamation but didn’t get very far. The feast was formalised (i.e. Romanised) only C14 from what I can see. If you can do better I would be interested.

I had a look through the Office of Readings just to see if there were any other idiosynchrasies like this but nothing unusual.

On a completely different tack.
I was wondering how far we could push the “quickening” or ensoulment theology of Aquinas (i.e. Aristotle = “general science” up until Enlightenment times) where it was validly held that the human soul only appears on the scene about 40? days after conception. Before that successive ensoulments (vegetative, animal) build up the body to a degree of sophistication that it can be animated by a human soul). Why would not the converse be possible for death. It would explain incorruption as well.

That is, Mary truly died, but her “vegetative soul” (responsible for bodily stasis) remained = Dormition. This would very nicely balance both Eastern/Western views surrounding Mary’s death.
 
Blue_Horizon said:
Well, now you have me confused :confused:.
I believe she died, what do you believe 🤷.
Click to expand...
Perhaps you had me confused, as well :confused:

The tradition which I have learned teaches of a “dormition” or “falling asleep”, which is understood to mean she died.
 
ALLELUIA
Blessed are you, O Blessed Virgin Mary;
without dying you won the martyr’s crown beside the cross of the Lord.
Click to expand...
This Gospel Acclamation, (with its mysterious origin) when taken in context, has no bearing whatever on whether the Virgin Mary eventually died or not. It is obviously saying that Mary won the Martyr’s crown beside the cross of the Lord even though she didn’t die then.

However, according to St. Francis DeSales Mary died in a rapture of Love for God. Therefore saying she died with God, in God and through God, making her a martyr nonetheless.
 
AmbroseSJ said:
This Gospel Acclamation, (with its mysterious origin) when taken in context, has no bearing whatever on whether the Virgin Mary eventually died or not. It is obviously saying that Mary won the Martyr’s crown beside the cross of the Lord even though she didn’t die then.
Click to expand...
Indeed, that refrain is not at all a reference to Mary’s death, but to her spiritual martyrdom (think “Our Lady of Sorrows”).
 
AmbroseSJ said:
This Gospel Acclamation…when taken in context, has no bearing whatever on whether the Virgin Mary eventually died or not. It is obviously saying that Mary won the Martyr’s crown beside the cross of the Lord even though she didn’t die then.

.
Click to expand...
ASJ
I agree that the context here suggests we could indeed be dealing with flowery, poetic licence/hyperbole rather than dogmatic theology.

In that case I am not at all sure we can discern any “obvious” dogmatic content though: it seems easier to accept that Mary didn’t die (at least that has theological precedent, even if now outrun) than that she was a martyr (I know of no theological/liturgical precedent for this).

The most we could affirm, I believe, is that Mary was certainly a spiritual martyr.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top