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In_His_Grace
Guest
Sorry, I didn’t see your post when I responded to Memaw. I agree, not only is it not contrary to scripture the concept of Assumption is explicitly taught in scripture.
Blessings
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Blessings
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CatholicKnight3
Guest
Yes, Revelation 12:17
“The devil became enraged and went off to wage war with THE REST OF HER OFFSPRING. All of those who bear witness to Christ and keep HIS commandments.”
Now, couple that with this…
John 19:27
and to the disciple, “Behold your mother.” From that time on, this disciple took her into his home.
Now we see how those words too, are eternal. Yes, John was at the foot of the cross, and he was only one of the 12 disciples who was there.
Interestingly enough, he was the ONLY ONE to take the consecrated EUCHARIST worthily since he was the ONLY ONE to acknowledge his unworthiness. He was the one who leaned on Jesus’s chest and asked, “is it I?” when Christ proclaimed that one would betray Him.
All of the disciples said to themselves SURELY NOT I. Peter exalted himself and declared he would never betray him. In both cases they were exalting themselves. Ironically the disciples who SAID TO THEMSELVES they would not betray him, betrayed Christ inwardly by avoiding Christ. This is of course an assumption, but there are no verses saying anything about any other disciple being at the foot of the cross.
According to scripture, John is the only one. He was only one to have the GRACE since he was the ONLY ONE to not EXALT HIMSELF. Therefore, he was bearing witness to Christ and keeping HIS commandments.
That interaction when John leaned on Christ’s Chest, that Peter later asks about the ONE WHO HAD LEANED on Christs chest.
So, yes. The rest of her offspring are those who bear witness to Christ and keep His commandments.
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Catholic4Christ
Guest
“Arise, O Lord, into thy resting place: thou and the ark, which thou hast sanctified.” (Psalm 131/132 verse 8)
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KathleenGee
Guest
The Church crowned Mary queen of heaven and earth.
What helped me understand the assumption of Mary into heaven, this one always incomprehensible to me…was finally understood after reading the Catholic ascetic walk in perfection, most notably, the purgative, illuminative and unitive way of the soul growing in perfection…and yet Mary bypassed these as she was conceived without sin and the wages of sin is death.
We do not know the manner but she was gloriously taken to heaven.
What helped me understand the assumption of Mary into heaven, this one always incomprehensible to me…was finally understood after reading the Catholic ascetic walk in perfection, most notably, the purgative, illuminative and unitive way of the soul growing in perfection…and yet Mary bypassed these as she was conceived without sin and the wages of sin is death.
We do not know the manner but she was gloriously taken to heaven.
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Memaw
Guest
AMEN !! Pius thought is NOT doctrine. God Bless, Memaw
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Wesrock
Guest
The Davidic kingdom was a type of Jesus’ kingdom, and Jesus’ kingdom is the fulfillment of the Davidic kingdom. The office of Queen Mother, an important position among the covenant kings, is just one type that points to Mary. But Jesus is still Mary’s sovereign, Lord and God. The Church is his only bride.
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Vico
Guest
The Orthodox (Eastern and Oriental) and some Anglicans believe it also. From *Munificentissimus Deus (1950):*From the universal agreement of the Church’s ordinary teaching authority we have a certain and firm proof, demonstrating that the Blessed Virgin Mary’s bodily assumption into heaven—which surely no faculty of the human mind could know by its own natural powers … is a truth that has been revealed by God.
…
Various testimonies, indications, and signs of this common belief of the Church are evident from remote times down through the course of the centuries
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In_His_Grace
Guest
Why did the Catholic Church find it necessary to define the doctrine of the Assumption of Mary as Dogma?
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Memaw
Guest
Because it’s TRUE and after the Protestant Reformation the breakaways denied it and the Church made it CLEAR to all Catholics that it is a dogma of faith and MUST be believed!! God Bless, Memaw
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KathleenGee
Guest
Actually, the assumption of Mary is a dogma of faith, not doctrine…
dogma drawing on the ‘senses’ of Scripture and the tradition of faith of all Christians going way back to the beginning…that all held she was perpetual virgin, she did not sin, she became the mother of all of us…these are traditions of faith and the constancy of faith.
There is a difference between dogma and doctrine. More on this later…many Catholics themselves do not understand this and I attended a seminar on the papacy regarding this.
Will clear up later this pm.
God bless!
dogma drawing on the ‘senses’ of Scripture and the tradition of faith of all Christians going way back to the beginning…that all held she was perpetual virgin, she did not sin, she became the mother of all of us…these are traditions of faith and the constancy of faith.
There is a difference between dogma and doctrine. More on this later…many Catholics themselves do not understand this and I attended a seminar on the papacy regarding this.
Will clear up later this pm.
God bless!
D
dmar198
Guest
There are probably several reasons. I think one of them involves a desire to increase devotion to the Blessed Virgin, in order to draw people back to God and the Church. In my view, secularism has been swelling in pockets of the West at least since the French Revolution (and probably going back long before), and those pockets of secularism have really ballooned into huge, dominant blocks. I think the emphasis on the Virgin Mary has kept a lot of the faithful in the fold in the face of all of this.
In this article, Catholic author Kenneth Howell cites several reasons why the Church proclaimed Mary’s assumption as a dogma. One is, “in the year 1950 the world was still reeling from the devastating effects of World War II.” Increased devotion to the Virgin could be healing. Pope Pius XII mentioned another reason: “the illusory teachings of materialism and the corruption of morals that follows from these teachings threaten to extinguish the light of virtue…” “[But through the proclamation of the assumption] all may see clearly to what a lofty goal our bodies and souls are destined.” source
So those are three possible reasons: devotion to the Virgin could combat secularism, provide healing after World War 2, and remind us of the exalted plan God has for both the body and the soul.
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oliver927
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In_His_Grace
Guest
I still don’t understand. The Assumption of Mary was dogmatically defined by Pope Pius XII on November 1, 1950, in the apostolic constitution Munificentissimus Deus. That’s over four hundred years after the start of the Protestant Reformation? Thanks.
Blessings
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In_His_Grace
Guest
Thank you dmar198. I read Kenneth Howell’s article yesterday. I’ll read Munificentissimus Deus which you linked to later today. Trying to understand, much appreciated.
Blessings
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In_His_Grace
Guest
Thanks oliver927 and I’ll check out Tim Staples’ article later today as well.
In His grace.
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In_His_Grace
Guest
I’ll be looking forward to what you have to say when you find the time and thank you KathleenGee.
God bless you as well.
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Peregrinans
Guest
The Assumption of Mary, while not technically biblical, can be inferred from past biblical instances of Enoch and Elijah being taken up bodily to Heaven and, some say, the woman in Revelation coming down from Heaven.
Most of the belief in the Assumption comes from the long standing tradition that Mary died and when they went to retrieve her bones, her body was not there so it was presumed that her body had been taken up to heaven. Obviously, her soul was already in Heaven so, it could be said that Mary was assumed into Heaven body and soul. The earliest belief was that Mary died in the presence of all the apostles (obviously not Judas but his replacement) in Jerusalem and then when her tomb was opened it was empty.
For those who are curious as to why her tomb would have been opened it was the custom for a body to be entombed and then later, after the completion of decomposition, the bones would be recovered and placed in a estuary within the tomb.
The Greek tradition had her tomb being opened after three days and the body was gone. (I am not sure why they would have been opening her tomb on the third day,)
Later, tradition had it that she died in Ephesus and then was assumed into Heaven. Even later, a pious tradition sprang up that Mary didn’t die prior to being taken up into Heaven.
Some maintain the heretical belief that Mary, had the Godlike ability, to will herself to die since she wanted follow her Son’s example.
The Church has no official stance on whether she died first or not. It only asserts that Mary, at some time and place, either alive or dead, was taken up to heaven. The Church declared this as a requirement in the 1950s, so every Catholic must adhere to this belief.
As for why the Church did this, I am not sure. I am of the opinion that a streamlined faith is the best route to go and so I would probably not have any Marian doctrines or dogmas, as a requirement for being in good standing with the Church. Obviously, the Church is not of that opinion, and as a Catholic I must yeild to the Church’s demands on the matter of what is required of the faithful. So we, Catholics, must try our best to understand and accept these teachings as best we can.
Most of the belief in the Assumption comes from the long standing tradition that Mary died and when they went to retrieve her bones, her body was not there so it was presumed that her body had been taken up to heaven. Obviously, her soul was already in Heaven so, it could be said that Mary was assumed into Heaven body and soul. The earliest belief was that Mary died in the presence of all the apostles (obviously not Judas but his replacement) in Jerusalem and then when her tomb was opened it was empty.
For those who are curious as to why her tomb would have been opened it was the custom for a body to be entombed and then later, after the completion of decomposition, the bones would be recovered and placed in a estuary within the tomb.
The Greek tradition had her tomb being opened after three days and the body was gone. (I am not sure why they would have been opening her tomb on the third day,)
Later, tradition had it that she died in Ephesus and then was assumed into Heaven. Even later, a pious tradition sprang up that Mary didn’t die prior to being taken up into Heaven.
Some maintain the heretical belief that Mary, had the Godlike ability, to will herself to die since she wanted follow her Son’s example.
The Church has no official stance on whether she died first or not. It only asserts that Mary, at some time and place, either alive or dead, was taken up to heaven. The Church declared this as a requirement in the 1950s, so every Catholic must adhere to this belief.
As for why the Church did this, I am not sure. I am of the opinion that a streamlined faith is the best route to go and so I would probably not have any Marian doctrines or dogmas, as a requirement for being in good standing with the Church. Obviously, the Church is not of that opinion, and as a Catholic I must yeild to the Church’s demands on the matter of what is required of the faithful. So we, Catholics, must try our best to understand and accept these teachings as best we can.
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Cavaradossi
Guest
St. Thomas was the only apostle who was not, by the power of God, translated to be with the Theotokos as she died. He, having arrived three days later, wished to see the body of the Mother of God, but when the tomb was opened, her body was gone, taken into heaven by Christ.
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Peregrinans
Guest
Thanks for the info.
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Memaw
Guest
Both are Infallible and MUST be believed by all Catholics so not really any actual difference. God Bless, Memaw
Modern Catholic Dictionary, Fr, John Hardon SJ
DOCTRINE- Any truth taught by the Church as a necessary acceptance by the faithful. The truth may be formally revealed (as in the Real Presence), or a theological conclusion as in the canonization of a saint, or part of the natural law. In any case, what makes it doctrine is that the Church authority teaches that it is to be believed.
Dogma- Doctrine taught by the Church to be believed by all the faithful as part of Divine Revelation. All Dogmas, therefore, are formally revealed truths and promulgated as such by the Church
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