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JB_Brother_4446
Guest
Different guys.
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Nicene
Guest
Not sure of why you are utilizing that scripture however it is better linked to Mark 6, Matt 10 or Luke 9, as well as Matthew 16. As well as the 12 sons of Jacob if your intent is typological.
Peace and God bless
Nicene
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Good_Fella
Guest
.
Most Catholic Biblical scholars and interpreters are certain that James the Less is also James the Just, son of Alphaeus/Cleopas. His younger brother was Jude, who was also one of the Twelve. I already showed you the list of the 12 apostles. “Jude, a servant of Jesus Christ, and brother of James, to those who have met with loving-kindness from God the Father, those whom he has set apart for Jesus Christ, and called them.” (Jude 1:1). Jude identifies himself with James as his brother because he was someone very important in the Church, viz., the Bishop of Jerusalem. Now can you provide a list of names for the 70 disciples that shows there was a James the Just counted among them? All you’re doing is supposing there was to accommodate your belief in the stepbrothers of Jesus. James became the first bishop because he belonged to the original Twelve. The Church was not founded on the 70 disciples (Rev.21).They were not sent into the world, but only to the House of Israel in preparation for our Lord’s visits in towns and villages in Palestine before the Church came to be…
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Good_Fella
Guest
Revelation 21 does draw a parallel between the twelve Apostles and the twelve Tribes of Israel. Daughter Zion foreshadows the Church, and the twelve tribes of Israel prefigure the twelve Apostles on whom Jesus founded his Church. Such a distinction isn’t applied to the 70 disciples. They cannot be equated with the original Twelve in the establishment of the Church.
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JB_Brother_4446
Guest
Both Jude and James in their respective letters refer to themselves as bondservants of the Lord. NOT as apostles. And if you check Agape Bible Studies, a perfectly Catholic website, they share the same supposition. I guess Eastern Catholics suppose then. They’ve been around longer than the West. There is actually a lot of Biblical support for the idea that Jesus had step-brothers.
THE SAME HIPPOLYTUS ON THE SEVENTY APOSTLES.
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- James the Lord’s brother, bishop of Jerusalem.
- Cleopas, bishop of Jerusalem.
- Matthias, who supplied the vacant place in the number of the twelve apostles.
- Thaddeus, who conveyed the epistle to Augarus.
- Ananias, who baptized Paul, and was bishop of Damascus.
- Stephen, the first martyr.
- Philip, who baptized the eunuch.
- Prochorus, bishop of Nicomedia, who also was the first that departed, believing together with his daughters.
- Nicanor died when Stephen was martyred.
- Timon, bishop of Bostra.
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kdbueno
Guest
We don’t want to understand Mary’s virginity inasmuch as we understand the concussion of its gravity. It’s not ignorant, but proves dogmatic theology is correct.
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Good_Fella
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I meant can you provide a list of the 70 from the Gospels. The list you’re referring to is from a spurious text of Pseudo-Hippolytus.
Just because James and Jude call themselves bond servants, it doesn’t necessarily mean they weren’t two of the original apostles. The Apostles were servants of the Lord, weren’t they?
There is no Biblical support that Jesus had stepbrothers. Eastern Catholics have cited apocrypha to support their belief (Clement of Alexandria - Nativity Gospel of James; Origen - Gospel of Peter, Epiphanius - Infancy Gospel of Thomas) and then from there attempt to draw inferences from the NT which has entailed pulling different characters out of thin air.
Agape Bible Studies is a Catholic site, but it is often speculative.
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Nicene
Guest
CCC 765 The Lord Jesus endowed his community with a structure that will remain until the Kingdom is fully achieved. Before all else there is the choice of the Twelve with Peter as their head.168 Representing the twelve tribes of Israel, they are the foundation stones of the new Jerusalem.169 The Twelve and the other disciples share in Christ’s mission and his power, but also in his lot.170 By all his actions, Christ prepares and builds his Church.
170 Cf. ⇒ Mk 6:7; ⇒ Lk 10:1-2; ⇒ Mt 10:25; ⇒ Jn 15:20.
Lk 10:1 After this the Lord appointed seventy others, and sent them on ahead of him, two by two, into every town and place where he himself was about to come.
2 And he said to them, "The harvest is plentiful, but the laborers are few; pray therefore the Lord of the harvest to send out laborers into his harvest.
Peace and God Bless
Nicene
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JB_Brother_4446
Guest
Ultimately apocryphal books contain insight into the tradition of early Christians. The Protoevangelium of James is cited often by Catholic scholars to show early belief in Mary’s virginity.
The earliest mention of cousins comes from Jerome’s biting ridicule of Helvidius. And when people like Epiphanius, Clement, or Origen read the texts of Scripture, they found plenty of evidence proving Jesus had step-brothers. The only biblical support for cousins comes from Mark 15 who only mentions James and Joses as sons of the other Mary.
In the letters of Paul and Peter, Paul identifies himself as an apostle, as does Peter, but James and Jude never do so.
I actually believe the brethren might have been a mixture of cousins like James and Joses and stepbrothers mentioned earlier in Mark’s gospel. I recommend looking up Richard Bauckham on this.
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Vico
Guest
These dogmas of faith are given in the Fundamentals of Catholic Dogma (Ludwig Ott):
- Mary was conceived without stain of Original sin. (De fide.)
- Mary conceived by the Holy Ghost without the co-operation of man. (De fide.)
- Mary bore her Son without any violation of her virginal integrity. (De fide on the ground of the general promulgation of doctrine.)
- Also after the Birth of Jesus Mary remained a Virgin. (De fide.)
- Mary was assumed body and soul into Heaven. (De fide.)
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Good_Fella
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Good_Fella
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Mary’s Perpetual Virginity is dogma, and as such belongs to the deposit of faith. The apocrypha are errant and are full of embellishments that aren’t true and are based on hearsay. Again, do you honestly believe that the Temple priests raised Mary in the Holy of Holies since she was three?
There is absolutely no evidence in the Scriptures. Suppositions based on preconceived notions don’t provide certainty. Many Protestants refer to the same Scriptural passages you do to show Jesus had blood brothers.
James the younger is James the less, the apostle. His mother Mary is the wife of Alphaeus/ Cleophas (Mk15:40; Mk 6:3). I’ve been telling you all along that James, the brother of the Lord, was his cousin and one of the Twelve. He was also known as the just. His other brothers were Jude and Simon, who were also among the Twelve.
Nor does the apostle John in his three epistles, nor Matthew in his gospel.
Pure speculation.
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JB_Brother_4446
Guest
Well. in the Latin Church there is the feat of Mary’s presentation.
Jesus’ brothers advise Him to reveal himself. Only older brothers in Jewish culture could have such authority. John 7:5 flat out states that Jesus’ brothers did not believe in Him, and John doesn’t give any reason to assume that these brothers aren’t some of the brothers mentioned in Matthew and Mark.
There is a very small chance James the Less was the same person as James the Just. James was a very common name in that time and place.
According to Jerome, the letters of John were written by John the Elder, a contemporary of John the Apostle. And Matthew’s gospel was a gospel not a letter.
Here is something for you to chew on.
orthodox-church.info/eureka/mp3/didmaryhave.pdf
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Good_Fella
Guest
Mary’s presentation in the temple is one thing, her being presented at the age of three and entering the Holy of Holies is another. According to Jewish law, only the high priest could enter the sacred sanctuary once a year on Yom Kippur. There were no exceptions to the rule, unless the Jews believed in the Immaculate Conception.
The word ‘brother’ can refer to older male relatives in general in Jewish parlance. We’ve already discussed that. There is no reason for John to give his readers any reason to assume that they are or aren’t.
That the name James might have been common is not enough to go on. Again, do you suppose it was common for a person to have not only the same name as someone, but also younger brothers who went by the same names of those of someone else with the same name as his? (Mk. 3:13-18; 6:3). That’s quite a coincidence.
'These are the twelve he appointed: Simon (to whom he gave the name Peter), James son of Zebedee and his brother John (to them he gave the name Boanerges, which means “sons of thunder”), Andrew, Philip, Bartholomew, Matthew, Thomas*, James son of Alphaeus, Thaddaeus, Simon the Zealot*** and Judas Iscariot, who betrayed him.’
“Isn’t this the carpenter? Isn’t this Mary’s son and the brother of James, Joseph, Judas and Simon? Aren’t his sisters here with us?” And they took offense at him.”
Thaddeus = Jude/Judas
Here is something for you to chew on.
orthodox-church.info/eureka/mp3/didmaryhave.pdf
Here’s something for you to chew on, since you’re Catholic and not Eastern Orthodox. The Council of Trent finally and infallibly defined the Canon of Scripture. There is no further room for debate.
Decree Concerning the Canonical Scriptures
"Of the New Testament: the four Gospels, according to Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John; the Acts of the Apostles written by Luke the Evangelist; fourteen epistles of Paul the apostle, (one) to the Romans, two to the Corinthians, (one) to the Galatians, to the Ephesians, to the Philippians, to the Colossians, two to the Thessalonians, two to Timothy, (one) to Titus, to Philemon, to the Hebrews; two of Peter the apostle**, three of John the apostle, one of the apostle James, one of Jude the apostle, and the Apocalypse of John the apostle**.
Testamenti Novi: Quatuor Evangelia, secundum Matthaeum, Marcum, Lucam, et Ioannem; Actus Apostolorum a Luca Evangelista conscripti; quatuordecim epistolae Pauli Apostoli: ad Romanos, duae ad Corinthios, ad Galatas, ad Ephesios, ad Philippenses, ad Colossenses, duae ad Thessalonicenses, duae ad Timotheum, ad Titum, ad Philemonem, ad Hebraeos; Petri Apostoli duae; Ioannis Apostoli tres; Iacobi Apostoli una; Iudae Apostoli una et Apocalypsis Ioannis Apostoli.
But if any one receive not, as sacred and canonical, the said books entire with all their parts, as they have been used to be read in the Catholic Church, and as they are contained in the old Latin vulgate edition; and knowingly and deliberately contemn the traditions aforesaid; let him be anathema. Let all, therefore, understand, in what order, and in what manner, the said Synod, after having laid the foundation of the Confession of faith, will proceed, and what testimonies and authorities it will mainly use in confirming dogmas, and in restoring morals in the Church."
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po18guy
Well-known member
Why do we define ourselves, our very beings, and life itself based solely on sexual relations? Why is a person less than a person if they refrain from sexual activity? This is disordered worldly thinking.
Mary was the handmaid, the bond slave of her own Son, the Lord. She was with Him from virgin womb to virgin tomb. Explain just how 21st century post-modern that life was.
Mary was the handmaid, the bond slave of her own Son, the Lord. She was with Him from virgin womb to virgin tomb. Explain just how 21st century post-modern that life was.
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kdbueno
Guest
I know what you mean. But what exactly you mean by free will, in the first place?
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thistle
Guest
Father John’s Hardon’s definition:
FREE WILL. The power of the will to determine itself and to act of itself, without compulsion from within or coercion from without. It is the faculty of an intelligent being to act or not act, to act this way or another way, and is therefore essentially different from the operations of irrational beings that merely respond to a stimulus and are conditioned by sensory objects.
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Good_Fella
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Mary certainly chose to remain a virgin, despite the Protestant objection that she couldn’t have made the choice because of cultural conditioning.
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Good_Fella
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