Mary's place in the Catholic Church-Is it too high?

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april_hosen

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I promise I’m not looking for trouble! Just for answers.
I was surfing the web, and I ran across this website regarding Roman Catholicsm. I looked into it and one of the links were about Mary and her place in the Catholic Church. This site had a very compelling argument, leaning towards Mary being put extreamely high in the Catholic Church. Would any of you say that this is true? Is Mary put up to high in the Catholic Church?
 
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april_hosen:
If you wanna check it out the site is:
www.carm.org/catholic.htm
I dont think its anti-Catholic I just think its informative.
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April, I see from your profile that you are not Catholic so maybe your view of anti-Catholic is a bit different than mine. The CARM site is VERY anti-Catholic. Here is just a tid bit:
CARM’s position is simple. If a Roman Catholic believes in the official Roman Catholic teaching on salvation, then he is not a Christian since the official RCC position is contrary to scripture. Therefore, as a whole, Roman Catholics need to be evangelized. … Finally, **I believe that there are truly regenerate Christians in the Roman Catholic church. But, they are truly Christians in spite of official RCC theology ** and in spite of the ritualistic offerings of this ancient church which has had too many hands meddling in it through the centuries, gradually moving it away from orthodoxy and into apostasy. Yes apostasy. The Roman Catholic Church is no longer representing true Christianity.
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CARM gratiously grants that some of us might be Christian in spite of being Catholic. :mad:

However, to your original question.

Mary hold the highest place that any man can hold, other than our Lord Jesus Himself. She deserves a postion above all other simply human beings due to the fact that she, by her fiat, brought the incarnate God into the world. She was conceived without sin and her Son, gave her to us. That place is not too high.

There are always antecdotal stories of Catholics who put Mary above Jesus, even some tendencies to over-emphasize Mary in some cultures. Hispanics, for example, are devoted to the BVM in a way that sometime makes us North American gringos uncomfortable. But they are that way about mothers in general - it’s cultural.

The Church, in all of its official postions, and in all of its teachings only gives Mary the small amount of honor that we, as humans are capable of. This is miniscule compared to the honor she undoubtedly receives in heaven.
 
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april_hosen:
I promise I’m not looking for trouble! Just for answers.
I was surfing the web, and I ran across this website regarding Roman Catholicsm. I looked into it and one of the links were about Mary and her place in the Catholic Church. This site had a very compelling argument, leaning towards Mary being put extreamely high in the Catholic Church. Would any of you say that this is true? Is Mary put up to high in the Catholic Church?
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NO. according to the orthodox teaching of the church she is right where she deserves to be.
after all, where it says**"…a body you have prepared for me…"** Heb. 10:5 …every christian knows (or should know) that it was IN MARY that a BODY was prepared by God for His own Son.
That makes Mary more precious in God’s eyes than The arc of the Covenant among the Israelites. …because of WHO she carried and formed…Think of it, The Blood He shed for The Atonement, He inherited from her.
We can view Mary through the eye of the dragon (Rev.12:13,17) and from that perspective any height will be too high.
But when viewed from the perspective of God, her spouse;"…what is sown in weakness , is raised in power." 1Cor. 15:43
…and there is no limit to how high God can raise his Faithful servants ! 😃

gusano
 
I think that we who are non-Catholic Christians are often guilty of not giving Mary a high enough place…Just a thought.
 
Mary’s place in the Catholic Church-Is it too high?
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Well, I wonder, exactly how “high” should it be? should Our Lady be completely neglected, as She is among the protestants? Should we remember Her only in our Christmas Pagents?

We are called to imitate Jesus. But Jesus honored His Mother. As an imitator of Jesus, I should do the same thing.

** Jesus gave Mary *perfect *honor (because He honored His Father AND His Mother in a perfect way). I cannot give Mary *perfect *honor, as Jesus did, no matter how hard I try. So how can the imperfect honor which I am able to give Her (as an imitator of Jesus) be MORE than She is entitled to?
 
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DavidFilmer:
Well, I wonder, exactly how “high” should it be? should Our Lady be completely neglected, as She is among the protestants? Should we remember Her only in our Christmas Pagents?

We are called to imitate Jesus. But Jesus honored His Mother. As an imitator of Jesus, I should do the same thing.

** Jesus gave Mary *perfect ***honor (because He honored His Father AND His Mother in a perfect way). I cannot give Mary *perfect *honor, as Jesus did, no matter how hard I try. So how can the *imperfect *honor which I am able to give Her (as an imitator of Jesus) be MORE than She is entitled to?
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Mary is our Mother, too. When Jesus said to the disciple He loved, “behold your Mother,” as far as I’m concerned, Jesus officially adopted us because did the most brotherly thing possible – sharing His mother.

Also who do you think really runs the Church? The Church may be Christ’s bride but Christ obeys His Mother. You’d think his bride would do well to pay some attention to her.

Alan
 
Mary is the mother of God, and as Christ is our brother as well are our Lord, Mary is our mother as well as our queen. She is in no way near Christ because He is Lord, but she is revered as much as any human besides Him could possibly be…she was amazing, wonderful, and sinless, a feat we all should aspire to accomplish and honor.

In Him,
Britty
 
This question is almost like asking, “Can you honor your parents too much?”, or “Can you love someone too much?”. The answer is no. If you love someone the right way, it is not possible to love them too much. If you honor someone the right way, it is not possible to honor them too much.
 
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april_hosen:
I promise I’m not looking for trouble! Just for answers.
I was surfing the web, and I ran across this website regarding Roman Catholicsm. I looked into it and one of the links were about Mary and her place in the Catholic Church. This site had a very compelling argument, leaning towards Mary being put extreamely high in the Catholic Church. Would any of you say that this is true? Is Mary put up to high in the Catholic Church?
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**No, she is put exactly where she needs to be. She is the Ark of the New Covenant and in Rev. 12:1-5 shows how she is Queen of Heaven and Earth. Also, immediately preceding Rev. 12:1-5 is Rev. 11:19 which shows how she is the Ark of the new Covenant. **

:blessyou:
 
April,

I’m glad to see that you’re still looking into the Church! May God bless you and lead you where He wills!

I would recommend staying away from non-Catholic sites to learn about Catholic teachings. Best to get your info straight from the horse’s mouth, so to speak.

“Iambic Pen” has asked a similar question here:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showthread.php?t=62524
I think the responses will help you to understand where we’re coming from.

Again, may God bless you and keep you, little sister!
RyanL
 
What do most people think of Eve…eventually just about everyone gets angry and thinks gosh darn it Eve…why couldn’t you have just minded G-d…what would our life be like if Eve had just said yes to
G-d…The way that Mary did.

Mary, by saying yes to G-d, fixed everything that Eve messed up. Is she revered for this action…you bet, and deservingly so!
 
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april_hosen:
Would any of you say that this is true? Is Mary put up to high in the Catholic Church?
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Here is a post from RyanL which addresses this issue:
forums.catholic-questions.org/showpost.php?p=761360&postcount=11
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RyanL:
Why did they need the ark in the OT? What happened when the ark was present during battles? Mary is fulfillment of what the OT ark pointed to. It was a prefigurement of our Blessed Mother. As great as a shadow is in the OT, what it points to in fulfillment is even greater. The ark was honored and couldn’t even be touched. The ark swayed battles against evil. How much more the fulfillment of this shadow?

Luke shows very clearly how the ark is a shadow of Mary as its fulfillment.

The ark goes to the hill country.
Mary goes to the hill country.

David asks, “who am I that the ark of the Lord should come to me?”
Elizabeth asks “who am I that the mother of my Lord should come to me?”

The ark stays in the house for three months.
Mary stays in Elizabeth’s house for three months.

David lept for joy at the presnece of the ark.
John the Baptists leaps for joy at the sound of Mary’s voice.

The ark was housed in a tabernacle overshadowed by the glory cloud.
The angel tells Mary that the power of the Most High will overshadow her.

The ark contained the written Word of God.
Mary contained the Word made flesh.

The ark contained bread from Heaven.
Mary contained true bread from Heaven.

The ark contained the rod of the true priesthood.
Mary contained the true Priest.

Add to that, the ark was built with an emphasis on purity because of what it would hold. What it held - SYMBOLS of Jesus.

Mary held the fulfillment of these symbols - Jesus - so why would there be less emphasis on her purity being that she had the fulfillment of the symbols the ark carried?

Hence, the Immaculate Conception. The Purity of the Ark which contained not a symbol of Jesus but Jesus himself in fulfillment.

Also, the ark could not be touched by man, which points to the perpetual virginity of Mary.

Now, whether or not Mary should be honored, and whether her fulfillment of these shadows is worthy of recognition. If God deemed the ark of the OT worthy of honor and deemed the shadows it represented worthy of recogonition, what kind of reasoning concludes that this should not be the case for the fulfillment and perfection of the ark?

We must also remeber the intercession of the ark was necessary for the battle and victory against evil, AND disaster when the ark wasn’t present. What is the fulfillment of that?
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Mary is God’s masterpiece. She is the pinnacle of Creation. Look at how people esteem someone like Michaelangelo’s best painiting. How much more should me praise God’s masterpiece.

Read this:

TREATISE ON TRUE DEVOTION TO THE BLESSED VIRGIN
http://www.ewtn.com/library/Montfort/TRUEDEVO.HTM

You’ll see how devotion to Mary is inseparable from devotion to Christ.
 
Mary’s rank is not a church rank. Mary was chosen by God to be the queen of the universe. The Catholic Church merely recognizes Mary’s rank in the whole scheme of things.
 
Chris Jacobsen:
Mary’s rank is not a church rank. Mary was chosen by God to be the queen of the universe. The Catholic Church merely recognizes Mary’s rank in the whole scheme of things.
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Come on, Chris, you can’t just throw out “Mary, Queen of the Universe” on a thread where a young Protestant is trying to come to terms with Catholic devotion to Mary! At least, not without explaining it!

Please show April why Mary deserves this title (or provide a link). I agree that she does, but you broke the subject…

May God guide you in your response, and hold you in His hands forever,
RyanL
 
I agree that we Catholics honor Mary a lot. I also agree that we don’t honor her too much, at least as a Church. Some individuals may go too far, but the Church itself does not honor her too much.
I was just thinking the other day that calling Mary the Mother of God is really quite an honor, but it’s nothing compared to the honor God gave her by making her the Mother of God the Son. Some people would say she’s the mother of Christ, but not the mother of God. The problem with this argument is that it supposes the incorrect argument that God is somehow separate from Christ.

A great article about why we honor Mary, especially in regard to our defined Marian dogmas, can be found here:

The Mother of the Son: The Case for Marian Devotion
 
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Genesis315:
Mary is God’s masterpiece. She is the pinnacle of Creation. Look at how people esteem someone like Michaelangelo’s best painiting. How much more should me praise God’s masterpiece. You’ll see how devotion to Mary is inseparable from devotion to Christ.
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I do not deny Mary was a great tool in Gods plan,
But I beginning to believe the Catholic Church is falling into worshiping the creation not the Creator. I dont understand why you praise her so much. She gave birth to Christ, and mothered Him to the best of her ability. She didnt die for us or take upon our sin. She didnt rise from the dead. Why give her so much praise? I am not picking on the Catholic religion or anything. Just trying to understand is all.:confused:
 
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april_hosen:
I do not deny Mary was a great tool in Gods plan,
But I beginning to believe the Catholic Church is falling into worshiping the creation not the Creator. I dont understand why you praise her so much. She gave birth to Christ, and mothered Him to the best of her ability. She didnt die for us or take upon our sin. She didnt rise from the dead. Why give her so much praise? I am not picking on the Catholic religion or anything. Just trying to understand is all.:confused:
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She’s the model Christian. When you think about it WWJD might be more true as WWMD. Our job is to follow Christ and have faith in Him. No one has done this better than Mary. She heard the word and kept it better than anyone. Jesus loving Himself or offering up His day to Himself doesn’t really make sense. Mary on the other hand, is in our position. We can see that you don’t have to be a God-man to be a perfect Christian and walk in Christ’s footsteps (as she did both figuratively and literally).

Plus, it’s not a small deal that she is His mother. God chose to become man through her–of all the people since the beginning of time, God chose her. That’s huge. God chose to literally dwell within her for nine months and to take His nourishment from her. This didn’t just last for 9 months. He also submitted to her like a faithful son for 30 years. Think about it. Most people back then went out on their own at a young age. Not Jesus. He stayed with Mary alone that whole time (Joseph is traditionally believed to have died at some point during those years). This is also a big deal.

Plus, she is the ark of the new covenant. Look how the OT people treated the old arc–and that nthing was just a box. Mary is so much greater than that thing that it makes sense that we would honor her more.

Finally, devotion to Mary does not take away from Jesus. Are they in competion with each other? Of course not. Jesus loves her as much now has He did when on Earth. A good so likes to see His mother receive praise–especially if she’s so humble. Plus, do you think she keeps anything for herself? Of course not. She gives everything to her Son. So all the honor she gets, she gives ten-fold to her Son. We should always give our best to Jesus just like the Jews gave God a good lamb, not a blind or lame one. If we offer up our thoughts and deeds to Jesus through Mary, she gives them to Him with her undefiled hands–it makes our offering that much more pure than if we had offered it straight from our sin stained souls. Not that it’s not appreciated and loved by Jesus, but if we can make our offering better, why not?

Anyway, hope that helps.
 
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