Mary's "Saving Office"

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I’m just thinking it is very odd that the Holy Spirit never has Luke mention a single discussion about Mary, nor a single of her acts, nor anything related to her and prayer, in the entire biblical account of the inception and early decades of the Church He recorded through Luke in Acts. It makes me think something got off-track??
 
I’m just thinking it is very odd that the Holy Spirit never has Luke mention a single discussion about Mary, nor a single of her acts, nor anything related to her and prayer, in the entire biblical account of the inception and early decades of the Church He recorded through Luke in Acts. It makes me think something got off-track??
isn’t it believed that Luke is her biographer?
 
The Master never said “come to me through my mother”; in fact, He took flesh of her that He might communicate with us directly, and raise us up to the Father. At any rate, that isn’t the subject at hand. I am not questioning the rosary, or other regular devotions to Mary. I am asking why it is said that she uniquely dispenses all the gifts of eternal salvation.

I believe I am going to have a better relationship with the Almighty Father through Christ, as Christ taught in every instant of His earthly ministry. You are making Christ the end, and Mary the way to Him - but the Lord never ceases to say that the Father is the end, and He is the way to the Father. Though Tradition exists, we cannot just push the Savior’s own doctrine aside. 😦

You seem to think a grave insult is being given to our Mother by my approach, and I think mortal insult is being given to the Lord by your approach! 😛
Actually Christ is clear in Scripture about sending mediators, this is what He says,
(John 13:20)
“Truly, truly, I say to you, he who receives any one whom I send receives me; and he who receives me receives him who sent me.”

Christ is the one who sent Mary into our lives from the Cross. “Behold your Mother”

St. Paul is clear on not tearing down the body of Christ.
(1 Corinthians 12:20-21)
“As it is, there are many parts, yet one body. The eye cannot say to the hand, ‘I have no need of you,’ nor again the head to the feet, ;I have no need of you.’”

(John 16:12-13)
“I have yet many things to say to you, but you cannot bear them now. When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all truth;”

So Christ is one with the Father, and as you read in the first Scripture I quoted when we receive Jesus in turn we receive the Father. And my last quote shows that not all things were taught in Scripture, The Holy Spirit guides the Church in all truth 👍
 
I am sorry if my thread causes doubt, confusion, or frustration. That is certainly not the intention. 😦 Our Lady is certainly queen of heaven, by virtue of being mother of the King who sits upon David’s throne, the Lord of All. The Assumption, Immaculate Conception, perpetual virginity, and co-redemption are most fitting doctrines indeed. I just can’t get over this idea that Mary communicates all the gifts of eternal salvation to us. Wow.
 
I am sorry if my thread causes doubt, confusion, or frustration. That is certainly not the intention. 😦 Our Lady is certainly queen of heaven, by virtue of being mother of the King who sits upon David’s throne, the Lord of All. The Assumption, Immaculate Conception, perpetual virginity, and co-redemption are most fitting doctrines indeed. I just can’t get over this idea that Mary communicates all the gifts of eternal salvation to us. Wow.
My friend look at the long list of great things you believe God did for Mary and then ask yourself why would He do all of these things for Her? And don’t worry your thread doesn’t cause the least bit of doubt in me. My Queen lives by our King and she is an active Queen who cares and constantly communicates the riches of our King to us. 👍
 
My friend look at the long list of great things you believe God did for Mary and then ask yourself why would He do all of these things for Her? And don’t worry your thread doesn’t cause the least bit of doubt in me. My Queen lives by our King and she is an active Queen who cares and constantly communicates the riches of our King to us. 👍
The problem is that there isn’t the slightest shade of this idea in the holy scriptures, in sacred tradition for 1000+ years, or in the saints. It seems to have been invented by Liguori & de Montfort, among others.

Yes, the Queen cares for the Son and all who are in Him, but it does not automatically follow that she is the only one who communicates the riches of the King. In Ancient Israel, the King did all distributive and public works, not the Queen. I think the “one mediator” doctrine of St. Paul makes a lot of sense here. 🙂
 
The problem is that there isn’t the slightest shade of this idea in the holy scriptures, in sacred tradition for 1000+ years, or in the saints. It seems to have been invented by Liguori & de Montfort, among others.

Yes, the Queen cares for the Son and all who are in Him, but it does not automatically follow that she is the only one who communicates the riches of the King. In Ancient Israel, the King did all distributive and public works, not the Queen. I think the “one mediator” doctrine of St. Paul makes a lot of sense here. 🙂
Okay I will believe your position that Mary does not communicate all graces which are necessary for salvation when you show me which other human Christ (the source of all grace) came through during the Incarnation. Also, yes St. Paul is right that there is only one mediator with the Father; however, St. Paul said nothing about there not being a mediator with the Son, so please don’t take St. Pauls words out of context.

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Okay I will believe your position that Mary does not communicate all graces which are necessary for salvation when you show me which other human Christ (the source of all grace) came through during the Incarnation.

The Incarnation occurs in two ways: 1. historically, at the unique moment of that conception in Mary’s womb, and 2. daily, in each baptized Catholic “incarnating” the word by word, deed, action, and love.

Why must we assume that, because Christ became incarnate through Mary, thus Mary stands before Christ at all times, the only door to Christ and the only portal through which His grace comes to us? The Lord is incarnate, and He is no longer in the womb or the mother’s arms - He is his own person, alive, reigning, ruling, and commanding every legion of the angels. The Incarnation lasts, and does not need to be renewed by Mary every day.
Also, yes St. Paul is right that there is only one mediator with the Father; however, St. Paul said nothing about there not being a mediator with the Son, so please don’t take St. Pauls words out of context.
 
The Christ you talk about is not present in the Scriptures for the simple fact that Christ wills that others be used to bring us closer to Him who is the one mediator with the Father. If He didn’t than He would have written the New Testament while on Earth and He would have just materialized without going through Mary. Anyway I can see we are not getting anywhere so I think it’s time for prayer.

God bless.
 
The Christ you talk about is not present in the Scriptures for the simple fact that Christ wills that others be used to bring us closer to Him who is the one mediator with the Father. If He didn’t than He would have written the New Testament while on Earth and He would have just materialized without going through Mary. Anyway I can see we are not getting anywhere so I think it’s time for prayer.

God bless.
Of course Christ wills that others be used to bring us closer to Him. You don’t seem to realize how much I agree with you.

If the Catechism just that said Mary & all the saints share in the saving office, communicating the gifts of eternal salvation, there would be no worries from me. It’s this separation of Mary from the saints and placing her at the 99.99% mark with the Lord that bothers people like me.
 
Of course Christ wills that others be used to bring us closer to Him. You don’t seem to realize how much I agree with you.

If the Catechism just that said Mary & all the saints share in the saving office, communicating the gifts of eternal salvation, there would be no worries from me. It’s this separation of Mary from the saints and placing her at the 99.99% mark with the Lord that bothers people like me.
Mary, Mother of the Son by Mark P. Shea.
 
Okay I will believe your position that Mary does not communicate all graces which are necessary for salvation when you show me which other human Christ (the source of all grace) came through during the Incarnation. Also, yes St. Paul is right that there is only one mediator with the Father; however, St. Paul said nothing about there not being a mediator with the Son, so please don’t take St. Pauls words out of context.
When you pray to Mary, you do it because you think she can accomplish something you can’t, and that is…well…I will hold my tongue and just say it slaps right against what Jesus said when He said, “If you ask ANYTHING in MY NAME, I will do it!” So what more power could He offer you, if you are saved, and why in the world would He not have said, “But if you want to pray a super duper prayer, forget praying directly to me, ask my mom to talk to me, because her prayers are much more effective.” He never ONCE mentions his mother regarding prayer, and there are many other invitations to pray! Every born again person is a priest AND a saint, according to Scripture, and because of their being in Christ and He in them, and because of the right to pray in his name that He has given them, they can go right to the Father in Jesus’ name. Making anything more important than that is to admit completely missing what Jesus taught about prayer. Do you not see your error here?
 
When you pray to Mary, you do it because you think she can accomplish something you can’t, and that is…well…I will hold my tongue and just say it slaps right against what Jesus said when He said, “If you ask ANYTHING in MY NAME, I will do it!” So what more power could He offer you, if you are saved, and why in the world would He not have said, “But if you want to pray a super duper prayer, forget praying directly to me, ask my mom to talk to me, because her prayers are much more effective.” He never ONCE mentions his mother regarding prayer, and there are many other invitations to pray! Every born again person is a priest AND a saint, according to Scripture, and because of their being in Christ and He in them, and because of the right to pray in his name that He has given them, they can go right to the Father in Jesus’ name. Making anything more important than that is to admit completely missing what Jesus taught about prayer. Do you not see your error here?
That’s right. When anybody asks you to pray for them tell them that Jesus said that if they ask anything in His name, he will do it. No need for you to pray for them at all.

…or could it be I’m missing something here?

peace
steve
 
I’m trying to understand this. I’m looking for verses in the Bible that speak of Mary providing salvation, and have not found any yet. And everywhere it mentions praying, if a name is talked about, it is always Jesus’ name. What should I make of that?
Thanks.
Mary does not provide us with salvation, she’s the Spouse of the Holy Spirit and the Mother of the Church—Jesus gave us to her ad our mother. But Mary is mentioned in the very first book of the Bible (Genesis) as well as the last (Revelation, aka the Apocalypse).
 
“But if you want to pray a super duper prayer, forget praying directly to me, ask my mom to talk to me, because her prayers are much more effective.”
I wonder if Jesus would have turned water into wind had the servants who ran out of wine come directly to Him.
He never ONCE mentions his mother regarding prayer, and there are many other invitations to pray!
Don’t be silly. We are all to pray for one another. Let me ask you, why pray for anyone when they can go directly to Jesus? Remember when you asked anyone to pray for you? Why didn’t you simply go directly to Jesus?
Making anything more important than that is to admit completely missing what Jesus taught about prayer. Do you not see your error here?
Mary is the Mother of the Church. The problem is when people miss the point of why Jesus made her our mother. But here she is mentioned in the book of Genesis. God said to the serpent:
I will put enmity between you and the woman, and between your offspring and hers” Gen. 3:15

Here is Mary in the Book of Revelation:

The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”[a] And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. . . . Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus. (Rev. 12:4-17)
 
Bodyandblood999;10698700:
When you pray to Mary, you do it because you think she can accomplish something you can’t, and that is…well…I will hold my tongue and just say it slaps right against what Jesus said when He said, “If you ask ANYTHING in MY NAME, I will do it!” So what more power could He offer you, if you are saved, and why in the world would He not have said,

I wonder if Jesus would have turned water into wind had the servants who ran out of wine come directly to Him.

Don’t be silly. We are all to pray for one another. Let me ask you, why pray for anyone when they can go directly to Jesus? Remember when you asked anyone to pray for you? Why didn’t you simply go directly to Jesus?

Mary is the Mother of the Church. The problem is when people miss the point of why Jesus made her our mother. But here she is mentioned in the book of Genesis. God said:
I will put enmity between you and the woman
, and between your offspring and hers” Gen. 3:15

Here is Mary in the Book of Revelation:

The dragon stood in front of the woman who was about to give birth, so that it might devour her child the moment he was born. She gave birth to a son, a male child, who “will rule all the nations with an iron scepter.”[a] And her child was snatched up to God and to his throne. . . . Then the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus. (Rev. 12:4-17)

There is not one single word anywhere in sacred scripture that says Mary is the mother of the Church, or even hints at it! Such a monumental statement would have been echoed there if it were true. She is the mother of Jesus, never mentioned after Acts 1!
 
There is not one single word anywhere in sacred scripture that says Mary is the mother of the Church, or even hints at it! Such a monumental statement would have been echoed there if it were true. She is the mother of Jesus, never mentioned after Acts 1!
Don’t be silly. There are many things in the Bible which are not explicitly stated yet you believe them For example, I assume you believe in the Holy Trinity, yet you will not find the word *Trinity *in the Bible. Realize that the word “Church” is from the Greek word Ekklesia, which is a translation of the Hebrew word Cahal which simply means "The People of God"

Mary is the Mother of God, because Jesus is God. We know that the Church is the Mystical Body of Christ. Revelation 12:17 explains that the dragon was enraged at the woman and went off to wage war against the rest of her offspring—who are those who keep God’s commands and hold fast their testimony about Jesus (THE CHURCH). Here is a video which explains the Many places Mary is mentioned in Sacred Scripture:

img833.imageshack.us/img833/9941/wo01.jpg
 
It strikes me that, the further one’s denomination has strayed off the path, the more radical the Catholic Church seems…
 
It strikes me that, the further one’s denomination has strayed off the path, the more radical the Catholic Church seems…
A bullet travels only one direction, away from its source. One need look only at its trajectory to see from where it comes and where it goes…or something like that…
 
It strikes me that, the further one’s denomination has strayed off the path, the more radical the Catholic Church seems…
Or, perhaps, like an expert in counterfeit money who improves his skills by handling the authentic currency over and over…the more the born again people, who comprise the Body of Christ, simply immerse themselves in the word of God (something once called a sin by Rome), the more error becomes obvious and the real thing becomes glorious.
 
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