Mary's Virginity

[TwoTurtles]

In the Gospels where it says Mary knew not Joseph till Jesus was born, I would like to know what this means. I firmly believe Mary was and still remains a virgin by would like to understand the meanin of this passage please
God bless

 

[DavidFilmer]

The word “until” has a slightly difference nuance in English than it did in Jesus’ time. As this CAF tract explains:

Matthew 1:25: “[A]nd he did not know her until (Greek: heos, also translated into English as “till”) she brought forth her firstborn son.” They first argue that the natural inference from “till” is that Joseph and Mary afterward lived together as husband and wife, in the usual sense, and had several children. Otherwise, why would Jesus be called “first-born”? Doesn’t that mean there must have been at least a “second-born,” perhaps a “third-born,” and so on? But they are using a narrow, modern meaning of “until,” instead of the meaning it had when the Bible was written. In the Bible, it means only that some action did not happen up to a certain point; it does not imply that the action did happen later, which is the modern sense of the term. In fact, if the modern sense is forced on the Bible, some ridiculous meanings result.

Consider this line: “Michal the daughter of Saul had no children till the day of her death” (2 Sam. 6:23). Are we to assume she had children after her death?

There is also the burial of Moses. The book of Deuteronomy says that no one knew the location of his grave “until this present day” (Deut. 34:6, Knox). But we know that no one has known since that day either.

 

[1ke]

It is an idiom in English.

If I say, “I will remain single until the day I die” that doesn’t mean I am going to get married after I die.

 

[Safia]

The word “until” has a slightly difference nuance in English than it did in Jesus’ time. As this CAF tract explains:

The answer is 100% correct, though I personally dislike the word “nuance” – it’s not really about the nuance, rather about the definition in the original language that contained this nuance within its definition.

 

[po18guy]

Matthew 28:20: “Lo, I will be with you, even unto the end of the age”
Does this mean that Jesus will not be with us in eternity?

I must ask, what has happened to protestantism, whose founders either supported Mary’s perpetual virginity, or did not oppose it.

It has moved away even from its own beliefs. What has happened to protestantism?

 

[Pitcharan]

In the Gospels where it says Mary knew not Joseph till Jesus was born, I would like to know what this means. I firmly believe Mary was and still remains a virgin by would like to understand the meanin of this passage please
God bless

At the outset I express my sadness over your choice of the “thread’s name”. It could have been named “Meaning of Matt 1:25”.

Here’s my response to your post: It is as simple as saying that Jesus was NOT the biological son of Joseph.

 

[TwoTurtles]

Thankyou very much!
So for my own knowledge and to be able to inturn defend Mary’s Virginity to others, where is this interpretation found? And how to explain this is the truth on how it’s interpreted? Ie: the Church Fathers, any historical documents etc?
Thanks again and God bless you all

 

[Pitcharan]

Thankyou very much!
So for my own knowledge and to be able to inturn defend Mary’s Virginity to others, where is this interpretation found? And how to explain this is the truth on how it’s interpreted? Ie: the Church Fathers, any historical documents etc?
Thanks again and God bless you all

“Mary knew not Joseph till Jesus was born” is as simple as saying: Jesus was NOT the biological son of Joseph. It is plain and simple and needs no great exegesis or explanation

 

[po18guy]

Thankyou very much!
So for my own knowledge and to be able to inturn defend Mary’s Virginity to others, where is this interpretation found? And how to explain this is the truth on how it’s interpreted? Ie: the Church Fathers, any historical documents etc?
Thanks again and God bless you all

The catechism: scborromeo.org/ccc.htm

See sections 487-511, specifically 499-501.

 

[Todd_Easton]

I must ask, what has happened to protestantism, whose founders either supported Mary’s perpetual virginity, or did not oppose it.

It has moved away even from its own beliefs. What has happened to protestantism?

Not that I would agree with them but Protestants would probably say that the original Protestant Reformers made a good beginning at purifying the Christian faith of non-Biblical teachings by getting rid of the papacy and Purgatory, for instance, and later generations of Protestants continued that process of purification by getting rid of Mary’s perpetual virginity.

 

[po18guy]

Not that I would agree with them but Protestants would probably say that the original Protestant Reformers made a good beginning at purifying the Christian faith of non-Biblical teachings by getting rid of the papacy and Purgatory, for instance, and later generations of Protestants continued that process of purification by getting rid of Mary’s perpetual virginity.

And have progressed well on their way to preaching a “new gospel”, where baptism is no longer needed, and the bible contains only Romans 3:28.

 

[heart4home]

“Mary knew not Joseph till Jesus was born” is as simple as saying: Jesus was NOT the biological son of Joseph. It is plain and simple and needs no great exegesis or explanation

No, it’s not that simple because while, as far as I know, ALL protestants believe that Jesus was not Joseph’s biological son, many also believe that after Jesus was born that Mary and Joseph had more children. This is because of the word brothers used often in reference to those travelling with Mary(which likely meant cousins or other close relatives) and also because of the verse in Matthews that the OP was asking about that says they knew not each other UNTIL. They assume that until means that once Jesus was born, Mary and Joseph than consummated their marriage.

So your simple explanation that Joseph was not Jesus’ biological father would not satisify those with questions, as very few/none doubt that fact.

 

[PeterGStanley]

You have to wonder also at the crucifixion Jesus asks John to take Mary as his own Mother ( yes I know its much deeper than that) where are these brothers and sisters? You would think they would be the ones who would take care of Mary as would be the normal custom. So it seems Jesus was her only Child or there would be no reason to have John take her as his mother because of her apparent other children that others would have us believe.

 

[JonNC]

Not that I would agree with them but Protestants would probably say that the original Protestant Reformers made a good beginning at purifying the Christian faith of non-Biblical teachings by getting rid of the papacy and Purgatory, for instance, and later generations of Protestants continued that process of purification by getting rid of Mary’s perpetual virginity.

From the Formula of concord:

On account of this personal union and communion of the natures, Mary, the most blessed Virgin, bore not a mere man, but, as the angel [Gabriel] testifies, such a man as is truly the Son of the most high God, who showed His divine majesty even in His mother’s womb, inasmuch as He was born of a virgin, with her virginity inviolate. **Therefore she is truly the mother of God, and nevertheless remained a virgin. **

This I believe and confess.

From a Lutheran perspective (and I suspect a Catholic one, too), the pious belief in sempre virgo is about the Person of Christ, and I believe it in this regard.

Jon

 

[Good_Fella]

It is an idiom in English.

If I say, “I will remain single until the day I die” that doesn’t mean I am going to get married after I die.

I once told my elementary school pupils that I didn’t want them to make any noise, but to work quietly at their desks while I left the classroom. Certainly I didn’t mean to tell my students that I wanted them to misbehave after I returned. I can honestly tell you they made no noise until their teacher returned, and continued to work quietly.

PAX
:heaven: