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gamewell45
Guest
What occult aspects are you referring to?
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Larry_Bennett
Guest
My father was a Mason, and he was a fine man, not perfect but who is? My mother is Catholic, and the marriage did end in divorce, but I don’t think masonry had anything to do with it. Masonry is not a religion, it is a fraternity or club of sorts, and Catholics are not allowed to be members, as far as I know. Their philosophy is definitely anti-papal and anti-Roman Catholic. Still there are Catholics who are given honorary membership (that is to say, they can’t go to the meetings) but then, masons are not allowed to be Knights of Columbus either. It is my opinion that Masons tend to “squeeze” Catholics our of their business deals and other social advancements, but they can still be good friends with Catholics, I know my father didn’t discriminate against people because of their religious beliefs. It is interesting that there are places on the internet that claim that Pio Nino (Pius IX) was a Mason while a prelate in Uruguay, or some such nonsense. Masonry in places like Scotland and England and other European countries, are much more militantly anti-Catholic than in Canada, though it is strong in the U.S… It is very hard to get any info on the Masons, they are sworn to secrecy, but I don’t think we have to worry so much that we lose sleep.
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kch86
Guest
Well, the desire to possess secret spiritual powers of the mind through the study of Kabbalah and numerology and other “Ancient Mysteries” that I’ve mentioned earlier in the thread. I know this sort of thing sounds silly, and it probably doesn’t figure as being particularly important or believable to the majority of Freemasons, for whom the fraternity is just little more than a charitable organisation and a social club as they say it is. But I have read some of the material by prominent Masonic authors because it’s genuinely interesting and intelligently written (so I don’t mean sites claiming “ZOMG Freemasons worship Satan!!11!1!”) and I feel at liberty to say that to some within the fraternity at least, this aspect is taken quite seriously and for them forms part of the Masonic philosophy.
And just because, I assume, the majority of Masons who go to lodge meetings don’t take that aspect of Freemasonry seriously at all doesn’t mean that it’s not a part of it. A lot of Catholics who don’t go to church don’t take the birth control aspect of Catholicism seriously either.
And I’m not saying that the minority of Freemasons who do get into the esoteric aspects of the fraternity are evil at all. It’s just that that sort of thing is proscribed by Christianity in general, so by participating in that aspect of it, they go against the tenets even of some of those Christian denominations that have a neutral stance to Freemasonry in general.
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1AugustSon7
Guest
Does anyone know what the big mason secret is?
They worship Lucifer, though recognition of this fact (for Masons) is by no means necessary.
The reason for that is because spiritual blindness (which is a punishment for joining the lodge as much as a reward from good Ol’ Scrat for doing so) is hardly inconducive with Lucifer’s (or Satan’s) designs for mankind. They love nothing more than to dupe men with the promise of light, only to then blind their minds with the blackest darkness.
The fact that Lucifer is worshipped in the lodge can be discerned even in their most basic rites, which are generally available online. However, since initiates are rarely educated Roman Catholics, they are not familiar with the spiritual subtleties of Rites and Rituals, and are therefore generally oblivious to the enormous significance of what is going on. This may be why Masonry thrives in post-Protestant, secularized countries where familiarity with solemn religious ritual is practically non-existent. As an initiate in the first degrees, a man is being made to enter into a spiritual communion with men (complete strangers, in fact) and give obeisance to them, the recompense being “light”. It matters nothing if the man even believes this is happening. A shrewd man might notice that as this so-called “light” is being promised to him, and his blindfold is withdrawn, the first thing he sees is a man. This is of course idolatrous and blasphemous, for Our Lord said “I Am the Light of the World.” The Last Gospel also comes to mind here.
If you know a Mason you could bring up in conversation the Catholic notion of Lucifer, which means “the light bearer” and how the Apostle spoke of him as being the angel that masquerades as an angel of light (a liar and a phoney, essentially); and that this fallen angel therefore is always promising to bring men to his so-called “light.” The Mason will immediately be irked.
But don’t actually do it. Control of the passions isn’t a virtue they are taught in the lodge and his spirit of brotherly love might be pressed to its limit.
For the record, spiritual blindness is as bad as it sounds and worse. It means a man is completely oblivious to the implications of what he is doing and perpetually inclined to dig himself deeper into the hole, as it were. This blindness covers a part of their intellect. They become a prisoner and increasingly so as they advance in the lodge: it’s like crack-cocaine for the soul. Now furthermore for the record, it must be said that all men are born at least partly spiritually blind or darkened as a consequence of original sin. This is why it is so easy for whole societies to lose all notion of the soul, for example, such that it becomes something almost hopelessly abstract to them. We can lose what little light we had. The reason for this is that such things are chiefly cognized as they actually are by the intellect; and if the intellect is darkened, and habituated to darkness, the man will almost certainly become a victim of carnality. The intellect is darkened by holding falsehoods or false representations of reality or essential contradictions, realized or not. Hence modern man’s obsession with equating reality with things “concrete” and what he can touch and feel: i.e. things sensible and solely under the senses; whereas, these are supposed to be the first steps to knowledge of higher, more abstract and intellectual concepts. Hence Our Lord made use of Parables in his teaching: no one had the slightest idea of what the Kingdom of God was or was like. Hence also the Apostle, when speaking to the Greek pagans, spoke of how God can be known (at least in part, i.e. His existence) from the things that He made. The fact that today the very notions of abstract, intellectual or philosophy/philosopher are spurned or held in contempt is indicative of a very real spiritual darkness, largely as a result of abuse and perversions of philosophy, which is supposed to direct and keep watch over, so to speak, and guide all human arts and endeavours. Corrupt a society’s philosophy, and you will degrade and begin to anarchize (as well as barbarize) them. (Note I here mean legitimate philosophy or what in a society’s philosophy is right, true or legitimate, as opposed to false philosophy or philosophy so-called).
This is also the reason why Saint Thomas (and Scholasticism in general) is so hated by some, and so utterly misunderstood by others.
They worship Lucifer, though recognition of this fact (for Masons) is by no means necessary.
The reason for that is because spiritual blindness (which is a punishment for joining the lodge as much as a reward from good Ol’ Scrat for doing so) is hardly inconducive with Lucifer’s (or Satan’s) designs for mankind. They love nothing more than to dupe men with the promise of light, only to then blind their minds with the blackest darkness.
The fact that Lucifer is worshipped in the lodge can be discerned even in their most basic rites, which are generally available online. However, since initiates are rarely educated Roman Catholics, they are not familiar with the spiritual subtleties of Rites and Rituals, and are therefore generally oblivious to the enormous significance of what is going on. This may be why Masonry thrives in post-Protestant, secularized countries where familiarity with solemn religious ritual is practically non-existent. As an initiate in the first degrees, a man is being made to enter into a spiritual communion with men (complete strangers, in fact) and give obeisance to them, the recompense being “light”. It matters nothing if the man even believes this is happening. A shrewd man might notice that as this so-called “light” is being promised to him, and his blindfold is withdrawn, the first thing he sees is a man. This is of course idolatrous and blasphemous, for Our Lord said “I Am the Light of the World.” The Last Gospel also comes to mind here.
If you know a Mason you could bring up in conversation the Catholic notion of Lucifer, which means “the light bearer” and how the Apostle spoke of him as being the angel that masquerades as an angel of light (a liar and a phoney, essentially); and that this fallen angel therefore is always promising to bring men to his so-called “light.” The Mason will immediately be irked.
But don’t actually do it. Control of the passions isn’t a virtue they are taught in the lodge and his spirit of brotherly love might be pressed to its limit.
For the record, spiritual blindness is as bad as it sounds and worse. It means a man is completely oblivious to the implications of what he is doing and perpetually inclined to dig himself deeper into the hole, as it were. This blindness covers a part of their intellect. They become a prisoner and increasingly so as they advance in the lodge: it’s like crack-cocaine for the soul. Now furthermore for the record, it must be said that all men are born at least partly spiritually blind or darkened as a consequence of original sin. This is why it is so easy for whole societies to lose all notion of the soul, for example, such that it becomes something almost hopelessly abstract to them. We can lose what little light we had. The reason for this is that such things are chiefly cognized as they actually are by the intellect; and if the intellect is darkened, and habituated to darkness, the man will almost certainly become a victim of carnality. The intellect is darkened by holding falsehoods or false representations of reality or essential contradictions, realized or not. Hence modern man’s obsession with equating reality with things “concrete” and what he can touch and feel: i.e. things sensible and solely under the senses; whereas, these are supposed to be the first steps to knowledge of higher, more abstract and intellectual concepts. Hence Our Lord made use of Parables in his teaching: no one had the slightest idea of what the Kingdom of God was or was like. Hence also the Apostle, when speaking to the Greek pagans, spoke of how God can be known (at least in part, i.e. His existence) from the things that He made. The fact that today the very notions of abstract, intellectual or philosophy/philosopher are spurned or held in contempt is indicative of a very real spiritual darkness, largely as a result of abuse and perversions of philosophy, which is supposed to direct and keep watch over, so to speak, and guide all human arts and endeavours. Corrupt a society’s philosophy, and you will degrade and begin to anarchize (as well as barbarize) them. (Note I here mean legitimate philosophy or what in a society’s philosophy is right, true or legitimate, as opposed to false philosophy or philosophy so-called).
This is also the reason why Saint Thomas (and Scholasticism in general) is so hated by some, and so utterly misunderstood by others.
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kch86
Guest
You wrote an interesting post and I do agree with you to an extent, but I think that statement is a little too absolute and I do feel the need to defend Freemasons to a degree.
Do they worship Lucifer?
Yes and no.
A lot of Freemasons don’t care about the spiritual aspects of Freemasonry.
Basic Masonic philosophy does preach salvation by works and without grace, which is incompatible with Christianity but not directly related to the worship of Lucifer.
But it also tends to have a whiff of self-divinisation, which is more the worship of the self than that of Lucifer, but is certainly a diabolical doctrine in and of itself. “You shall be like God,” said the serpent.
Delving deeper into the study of Masonic symbology, derived from Jewish Kabbalah and the pagan religions of antiquity, is certainly an exercise in the occult. The esoteric aspects also focus on acquiring hidden spiritual powers in this way, which from our perspective as Christians, has a demonic ring to it.
And Masonic literature does sometimes reference Lucifer as the force behind man’s spiritual powers, or in other positive terms, as the bringer of light and knowledge, which we recognise as referring to the Devil, who masquerades as an “angel of light” and who promised knowledge of good and evil to our first parents in the Garden of Eden.
There certainly is a diabolical element to the doctrines of Freemasonry, but it shouldn’t come as a surprise. Such a thing is present in every religion or quasi-religion that deals with the occult, be it Kabbalah, witchcraft, New Age or the like. And we cannot call all Freemasons, even those involved in the esoteric side of the fraternity, devil-worshippers, just as much as we cannot say that all New Agers are satanists.
Indeed, there is much of concern in the teachings of Freemasonry and its relationship with the Church has not been great, but to say all Freemasons worship Lucifer would be an insult to the many good men who belong to the fraternity and who treat it as a charitable social club or who simply misunderstand the true dangers and nature of the esoteric occultism and symbolism that forms such an integral part of its philosophy.
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coachkfan1
Guest
Uh, the Masons are nothing like the Knights of Columbus. Do some research and you will see that Masons have pushed for secularism throughout the world, have attempted to infiltrate the Vatican at high levels, have contributed to instability throughout Latin and South America in order to bring about the downfall of the Church and much more. No, they are not harmless men riding around in little cars and funny hats, although at the lowest levels this may be the image of masonry. It is a false religion that masquerades as a group of benevolent and enlightened men who do good works. Sadly, the truth is far more sinister and many rank and file members have no idea what they are participating in.
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1AugustSon7
Guest
No they do whether they realize it or not. The whole system stinks of Luciferean undertones. It’s actually quite brazen and in-your-face once you pick up on it. Admittedly it is concealed but that is done deliberately.
Yes I already addressed that.
Yes that is directly related to Lucifer. It’s an anti-Christian philosophy that is designed to vitiate especially Christian societies. It places an inordinate emphasis on good-deeds and places a man’s focus on wordly and temporal affairs, thereby distracting him from what really is first and most important in this (his) life: saving his soul and getting to Heaven.
I agree though I think calling it “a whiff” is simply an understatement.
No it’s just demonic or else the word loses all meaning. It’s popular mythology thanks to Hollywood that everything associated with Satanism or Lucifereanism is ridiculous or absurd. This insults Christianity by making it seem opposed to something that is literally practically useless/impractical: i.e. incapable of effectively influencing the world. This is simply not true and tends to make Christians look moronic for believing in the existence of the devil and being opposed to the practice of such arts or craft. Satanic rites and rituals are extremely pernicious, vicious, deadly and disgusting, sometimes not only spiritually but even physically. They also inculcate a hatred of Christ and Christianity.
I agree it should not be a surprise to anyone, especially a Christian.
That’s easy to say today, but try convincing Catholic clergy and Martyrs during the French revolution that what they were experiencing can be categorized as a “relationship” that “has not been great.” To put this bluntly, there is no relationship.
There are no good men in the lodge. It takes overly curious, rash or desperate men and makes them worse by providing a system, network and philosophy that confirms them in their vicious (as regards the soul) habits. That’s the problem. Good men proclaim the gospel and work for the salvation of souls. They do not busy themselves with delusions of grandeur (Napoleon anyone?) or single-handedly saving the human race from materialistic poverty or what-have-you. Good men do such things to save souls and for the greater glory of God; not the greater glory of hismelf or man in general.
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white_mouse
Guest
Sadly I don’t have an actual source for this, but a friend of mine who works as a researcher told me that…
-The biggest masonic secret is that you should never have joined.
-The society becomes “Satanic” past the 33rd degree where initiates become ‘illuminated by the light of Lucifer (the Morning Star)’ as they begin to learn illuminist secrets.
Not sure how valid these are, they seem kinda tongue in cheek!!
-The biggest masonic secret is that you should never have joined.
-The society becomes “Satanic” past the 33rd degree where initiates become ‘illuminated by the light of Lucifer (the Morning Star)’ as they begin to learn illuminist secrets.
Not sure how valid these are, they seem kinda tongue in cheek!!
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lindaharry
Guest
Hello ,
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linda
My name is Miss linda, i will like to have a good relationship with you please write me with my ID (linda.harry27@yahoo.com)
so that i will send you my photo and tell you about me.
linda
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lindaharry
Guest
Hello ,
My name is Miss linda, i will like to have a good relationship with you please write me with my ID (linda.harry27@yahoo.com)
so that i will send you my photo and tell you about me.
linda
My name is Miss linda, i will like to have a good relationship with you please write me with my ID (linda.harry27@yahoo.com)
so that i will send you my photo and tell you about me.
linda
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kch86
Guest
The same can be said of New Age. There are quite frightening Luciferian undertones in New Age as well. What I’m saying is that many New Agers are in fact misguided, and not diabolically evil, even though they may be honouring Lucifer through their practices. A similar thing can be said for some of the more naive Freemasons. Of course, continuing down either path certainly leads to spiritual death. I just don’t want to paint every man with the same brush.
Yes, that was an understatement, and you pointed out several more in my post. I mostly agree with what you’re saying here and elsewhere, but I simply don’t want to give the impression that most Freemasons are literally Satanists who attend black masses and make human sacrifices to the Devil.
Well, perhaps it is an outgrowth of the more sinister doctrines at its core, but you don’t have to be a Freemason to have this misconception. Many sincere people hold this dangerous view. And it certainly is a dangerous view because it inclines people who are capable of doing good deeds to the sin of pride by making them believe they deserve heaven. And it may lead to more humble souls to despair, for they (rightly) think that their meagre good deeds will never be good enough. The fact that Masonic philosophy actively condones this view is certainly detestable, but many religions mistakenly do.
I think that may be an overstatement. We cannot judge every man and his motives. Some have been born into Masonic families and others have been misled about the nature of the fraternity, thinking it is nothing more than a pseudo-secular, charitable social club. And we all have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God, so by that standard, there are no good men in the Church either.
I think the difference is in our writing styles, where mine tends toward understatement and yours tends to be more direct and might lean a little even towards overstatement, when we’re both in actual fact broadly in agreement.
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1AugustSon7
Guest
New Age is largely an outgrowth of Freemasonry and a consequence of it. New Age is too vast a pool to group, though, some of it is indeed simply ridiculousness while other ends are patently Satanic. Though I digress, since I’m not sure what this has to do with the original topic?
It is our duty to judge by what we see and know. Remember that Our Lord told the Apostles one of them was a traitor. The Apostles diligently inquired amongst themselves who it might be. The Lord did not rebuke them and the Apostles understood they had a duty to discern such persons and expose them.
Now I know well about the craft and not all of it is based on research on my own or later learning from the Church. I know from personal experience with many Masons as well. What I have said I have borne witness to. I have had to actively try to convince family members not to join the lodge when they were being persuasively influenced in a patently immoral way: e.g. a man’s boss at a new job was encouraging one relative to join, and apprised him of the fact that much of the rest of the staff were members too. Now that’s patently immoral. I can speak of several other situations as well. Suffice it to say the lodge vitiates character, which I have witnessed personally. If you want a poster-child of the sort of person the lodge was meant to produce, get to know Voltaire. He showed nearly every indication of even being a demoniac. His vitrol toward Christianity was so fierce and constant we are left wondering how it was even humanly possible. Never has so much latent talent been so liberally wasted. The rise of radical skepticism and agnosticism that paved the way for modern secularism all has close ties and affinities to the lodge and its philosophy. The consequence of all of this in terms of souls is beyond measure.
Yes, I may be passionate about the issue and, since in this day and age people are not comfortable with rigidity or wrath or anger even when it’s in accord with justice, I need be careful not to land in hot water with the etiquette police.(I am not here refering to you, by the way). Nonetheless, I do not want to give a false impression in case someone has to deal with this issue in their real lives. They should be aware of the facts, even if those facts only represent a worst case scenario.
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kch86
Guest
I appreciate that.
I also agree with you when you say that modern secularism and many of the other philosophies prevalent in society today are intricately related to Masonic philosophy.
It’s certainly enlightening to hear of your personal experiences with the fraternity and I’m sure it’s not only me who would be interested in hearing anything else you have to say on this matter.
I personally know one Mason who has been part of the fraternity since before I had been born, and I can attest that he certainly has a vitriolic hatred toward Christianity and is generally not the upstanding and moral sort of man that Freemasonry claims its aim is to build. My friend’s grandfather too was a Freemason when he was alive and even his own family did not hold him in high regard. So my experiences of Freemasonry too have been negative, but I do try to be careful and to avoid overgeneralising.
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englishredrose
Guest
:sad_yes:
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gamewell45
Guest
Freemasonry does not discriminate against anyone based on religion. 40% of my lodge membership are composed of Roman Catholics, some of who are also members of the Knights of Columbus.
I do agree with you that membership in Freemasonry if forbidden by the church, but that is a personal choice which is left up to the individual and not for freemasonry to make.
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kch86
Guest
Their duplicity too is extraordinary. On the one hand they try and impose their philosophies onto the world in every conceivable way, and on the other they scream and shout about Christians trying to legislate morality.
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kch86
Guest
I’m curious, what was your motivation for joining the Lodge?
What attracts you to it? What do you like about it? What motivates you to make the effort to attend lodge meetings? Is it the charitable work? The social aspect?
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gamewell45
Guest
What you’ve described to my knowledge does not occur in Blue Lodge; most likely it could take place in a concordant body in which one must be a freemason in order to be eligible for membership. Either way Freemasonry recognizes and respects the churches position on Freemasonry.
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gamewell45
Guest
Primarily for charitable work; secondly for the social aspect. The one major tenet of Freemasonry which I have always held in high esteem is that they teach tolerance of those who are different or view things different then the ones self.
Prior to becoming a member of a lodge, each candidate is urged to speak to his spiritual adviser (Priest, minister, rabbi, Imam, etc) to make sure that they are not unknowingly going to be in conflict with the teachings of their faith. Of course that is up to the individual to take that important step.
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kch86
Guest
Thanks for your answer. And I’m glad and respect you for deciding to actively engage in charitable work.
It’s quite possible that it doesn’t. As far as I’m aware, the Blue Lodge is merely the first three degrees of Masonry and beyond that you have the Scottish and York rites and perhaps other para-Masonic bodies through which Masons may further develop their philosophy.
I would, however, imagine that even the Blue Lodge teachings of Freemasonry, including the tolerance you mentioned, are to a degree incompatible with the dogmatism of Christianity. To a large extent, however, these teachings are no longer exclusive to Blue Lodge Masonry but have become part of society in general, so I imagine it’s not too different.
Anyway, while I would hope that you will one day choose to do charitable work through a different organisation, I am glad that Freemasonry has so far helped you express your desire to help your fellow man.
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