Masonic Conspiracy Theory

[beischel]

Pope Leo…hmm, written in 1884. So nothing has changed in the last 126 years? No re-evaluation of people? That’s fair?

I read some of the reviews of John’s book on Amazon. Here’s what one reader said he learned from the book.

Some highlights of the book include:

• Freemasonry views all gods as equal to Christ and the Lodge views all religious writings as equal to the Bible.

NOT TRUE.

• It doesn’t matter to the Mason that the Bible affirms the divinity of Christ while the Koran denies His divinity. Both books are said to express the ‘will of God’.

NOT TRUE.

• Christian Masons are asked to place Christ alongside – not above – other gods. (Mt 6:24; 1st Commandment)

NOT TRUE.

• Freemasons refer to God as GAOTU, or Great Architect of the Universe among other titles. In group prayer, Christ is omitted yet the Church teaches that “there is no other way of Christian prayer than Christ. Whether our prayer is communal or personal, vocal or interior, it has access to the Father only if we pray ‘in the name’ of Jesus” (CCC 2664)

No, they mention Him as the great architect, just like Christians refer to God as our Father, the Shepard, etc. The term “GAOTU” was never used.

• Masons are required to make secret signs of self-mutilation with their arms and hands. These signs evoke the penalties for breaking the Masonic oaths. If a man is physically or psychologically unable to make such signs, he is not allowed to be a Freemason.

Yeah, just like college fraternaties (sp?) they have signs, handshakes, etc. that are secret. Big deal. No one out there has any secrets? There are plenty of former military men who have been horribly wounded in battle, who cannot make the handshakes, signs, etc. who are still Masons. What a crock.

• Most of the leaders of the Ku Klux Klan were Freemasons.

Many were Lutheran. etc. Hitler was a Roman Catholic. Are we condemning an entire group based on the actions of a few?

• Catholic candidates to Freemasonry are told that they are no longer forbidden to become a Freemason. They are also told that many Cardinals and even the Swiss Guard are Masons.

Somewhat true. I was told Catholics were no longer forbidden to be Masons. As for the rest, I was not told that.

• The new Mason is told that he must die to his former life and be reborn into the new life of the Lodge. He is told this while blindfolded, wearing only his underwear and with a sharp implement being pressed into his bare chest.

NOT TRUE. There was no mention ever of being re-born. Someone is confusing the Baptist Religion with Masonry.

• The apprentice Mason takes grisly oaths, promising that he will have his throat cut and tongue torn out should he share any secrets. Read Matthew 5:34 and following verses about taking oaths.

Yeah, so what? The candidate is told that these oaths are not to be taken literally, but merely to show the seriousness of keeping the secrets. Geez, reminds me when we were kids and swore that if we broke a promise we’d stick a needle in our eye or some such thing. No one was going to do it, it just reminded all of the seriousness to keep the promise or secret. Fraternal stuff.

• ‘Shriners’, is a separate order where 32nd degree Masons who wish to join take their oaths with their hand placed upon a Koran. The real name of ‘Shriners’ is AAONMS or the Ancient Arabic Order of Nobles of the Mystic Shrine. (NOT IN THE BOOK: The money from the circus doesn’t all make it to the Shriner hospital, by the way. In “2006, the organization’s total unrestricted net assets (minus the portion that consists of land, building and equipment) were $7,504,675,000, or 11 times the charity’s total 2007 budgeted expenses of $655,000,000.” Source - Better Business Bureau)

OK, so they gave it a funny name. I NEVER place my hand on a Koran. Period. End of Story. As for the funds, I don’t know. However, what I do know is that no payment for services is required by patients. The money is coming from somewhere to fund the treatment to children.

So in summary, as noted in the Bible with prophesies, if one part of the prophesy is incorrect, then all must be incorrect. I put little faith in John’s book, but would be happy to discuss any of this with him personally.

The reviewer asks the question as to why the Masons and not others like Kof C, Kiwanis, Elk, etc.? Well frankly for two reasons. One, Masons will always take care of other Masons. When my father-in-law was dying, he needed a nursing home. The family had no money at all to pay for it. The Mason’s paid the bill. With Kof C, I need insurance…well that is if you are in perfect health you can get the insurance, if not, you are denied and left to fend for yourself. So which group is more Christian? The Masons or the KofC? I can always get assistance from the Masons (well, not anymore since I demitted from all Masonic groups, but if I was still a Mason I could get assistance) but not the KofC. KofC Insurance brags about the financial stability and high quality because they only take those in perfect health. How is that supposed to help the less fortunate? Member quotas for KofC, have to be an insurance member so the council can get “star council” so it’s like I was asked to be a member so they can sell more insurance. Then, if KofC turns you down, the council does not get credit because you did not get a policy. Where is the justice in that? I tried to get a LTC policy for my wife but was turned down.

Why else Masons? Well it was fun. I like the secret stuff. Shriners are fun. The people are fun. KofC, well not so much. I am a member because it is part of the church, I do like the men in our council, and our parish priest is a great guy and I want to support him. But as a fraternal organization compared to the Mason, honestly, there is no comparison.

 

[beischel]

**"Are there any regulations as to physical condition?

Physical impairment shall not be considered a disqualification from receiving the degrees of the Rite."**

Source - from an official Masonic website: 32srmason.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=73&Itemid=74

Again, if one part of John’s book is false, it calls into question the accuracy and truthfulness of the entire book.

 

[Cetil]

Re-evaluation? Why yes of course there was! It was issued by the CDF in 1983:
"Therefore the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion. "

cin.org/users/james/files/masons1.htm

As to the book, there are several positive reviews of it at Amazon as well. Naturally Masons react hysterically when they feel threatened by former members. A friend of my brother had his house burglarized once because he had a Masonic code book. That was the only item taken. How “fraternal”.

C.

 

[Cetil]

**"Are there any regulations as to physical condition?

Physical impairment shall not be considered a disqualification from receiving the degrees of the Rite."**

Source - from an official Masonic website: 32srmason.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=73&Itemid=74

Again, if one part of John’s book is false, it calls into question the accuracy and truthfulness of the entire book.

No reasonable Catholic believes the defenses of Masonry or its adherents. Its nature of secrecy precludes granting it any level of trust. I have no reason to think Mr. Salza’s book is false.

C.

 

[beischel]

No reasonable Catholic believes the defenses of Masonry or its adherents. Its nature of secrecy precludes granting it any level of trust. I have no reason to think Mr. Salza’s book is false.

C.

Read the entire website. 32srmason.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=73&Itemid=74

It contradicts John’s book in many areas. So this should give you reason to think John’s book is false. But if you are not going to believe the source coming from the Mason’s themselves, then I don’t know what to tell you. You can take a horse to water…

 

[beischel]

As to the book, there are several positive reviews of it at Amazon as well. Naturally Masons react hysterically when they feel threatened by former members. A friend of my brother had his house burglarized once because he had a Masonic code book. That was the only item taken. How “fraternal”.

C.

Again, I call to question the honesty of that statement. Masonic “codebooks” are openly for sale at most bookstores. That’s where I got mine. You do not have to break into someone’s house to get one. I always love it when people cite trusted sources like “a friend of my brother’s cousin who knew a guy who had a half brother from another marriage who’s grandfather worked with a guy.” This is just more pant-load bigotry at its finest.

By the way, the reviews are mostly positive. I never said they were not. People are only parroting the lies and half-truths written in the book. I cannot fault the reviewers, I fault the guy who wrote the book and created the impressions and distortions.

 

[beischel]

Re-evaluation? Why yes of course there was! It was issued by the CDF in 1983:
"Therefore the Church’s negative judgment in regard to Masonic associations remains unchanged since their principles have always been considered irreconcilable with the doctrine of the Church and therefore membership in them remains forbidden. The faithful who enroll in Masonic associations are in a state of grave sin and may not receive Holy Communion. "

C.

BTW, what specifically is the Church citing as “principles (that) have always been considered irreconcilable”?

That does not sound like a re-review of Masonry to me. It sounds like a simple restatement.

 

[beischel]

No reasonable Catholic believes the defenses of Masonry or its adherents. Its nature of secrecy precludes granting it any level of trust. I have no reason to think Mr. Salza’s book is false.

C.

Masons have secrets just like KofC. So I guess what you are saying is that since both organizations have secrets, then I should not trust the Masons or the Knights since “the nature of secrecy precludes granting it any level of trust.”

Masons, like KofC, are not secret societies, they are societies with secrets. Members of Masonic and KofC organizations are openly known. Where they meet is openly known. They all have websites, their respective leaders are all openly known, therefore they are not secret societies but societies with secrets. But going by your statement, neither should be trusted.

Seems to indicate that membership in KofC is also a grave sin since such society, because of its secrets, puts one in a grave state of sin. Interesting perspective from a Catholic on the KofC.

 

[Another_Mary]

But but but…beischel, what if you haven’t progressed far enough in Masonry to be privy to what is really going on?

 

[beischel]

But but but…beischel, what if you haven’t progressed far enough in Masonry to be privy to what is really going on?

OK, I’m game…what’s really going on at the top in Masonry? In fact, I have not progressed far enough in KofC yet (just 3rd degree) to know what is really going on at the top of KofC either. So enlighten me, exactly what is going on? If it is a secret society, then you wouldn’t know either now would you? If it is not a secret, then whatever is happening once you progress “far enough along” should be published and open on some Masonic website. So enlighten me please? I’m like a sponge and want to take it all in.

 

[Another_Mary]

Because I am a female, in order to formulate a reply to beischel I was doing a little research…

Some forms of Freemasonry do allow female members but mostly they are relegated to their own parallel organizations with such enticing names as Order of the Eastern Star, the Order of the Amaranth, the White Shrine of Jerusalem, the Social Order of Beauceant and the Daughters of the Nile.

But that really has nothing to do with the discussion. (Well, my theory is that women [and I am one] are not good at keeping secrets and the men feel they should thus be excluded from secret societies if the men wish them to remain so!)

Anyway, Wikipedia had a statement that speaks to beischel’s plea to us that organizations can and do change over time and that we should realize that the Masons have changed. On the subject of allowing women to join or not…

Many Grand Lodges are of the opinion that altering this structure would completely change freemasonry. Furthermore, mainstream Grand Lodges adhere to the masonic landmarks laid out in the early 18th century, which are considered unchangeable.

From here Bolding is mine.

So, depending on which Masonic order your are speaking about I guess some things are “considered unchangeable”.

Wikipedia as a source is about as good as quoting from Amazon reviews and I am admitting it right here.

(My wireless mouse keeps disconnecting as I write this post. I assume it is the Dark Side trying to keep me quiet! I have noticed this when I post in certain topics!)

 

[beischel]

Because I am a female, in order to formulate a reply to beischel I was doing a little research…

Some forms of Freemasonry do allow female members but mostly they are relegated to their own parallel organizations with such enticing names as Order of the Eastern Star, the Order of the Amaranth, the White Shrine of Jerusalem, the Social Order of Beauceant and the Daughters of the Nile.

But that really has nothing to do with the discussion. (Well, my theory is that women [and I am one] are not good at keeping secrets and the men feel they should thus be excluded from secret societies if the men wish them to remain so!)

Anyway, Wikipedia had a statement that speaks to beischel’s plea to us that organizations can and do change over time and that we should realize that the Masons have changed. On the subject of allowing women to join or not…

From here Bolding is mine.

So, depending on which Masonic order your are speaking about I guess some things are “considered unchangeable”.

Wikipedia as a source is about as good as quoting from Amazon reviews and I am admitting it right here.

(My wireless mouse keeps disconnecting as I write this post. I assume it is the Dark Side trying to keep me quiet! I have noticed this when I post in certain topics!)

So I guess this is also why the KofC also excludes women? They cannot keep a secret? I am having trouble understanding the point you are trying to make. Since you cannot note which Masonic traditions are in conflict with the Church (please, from actual Masonic sources, not dribble that others write or interpret) we don’t know what has changed or not changed now do we? We just have generalized statements being quoted with no actual specifics.

I understand the Grand Lodge in England has requested from the Vatican specifics on what the Vatican objects to as to make membership in Masonic groups acceptable to the Church. The Church apparently has ignored them. I for one would like to see the Church outline specifically what they object to or what needs to change to make Masonic membership acceptable and no longer in conflict with the Church. I think that is very reasonable since the Masons do not seem to have a problem with the Church, but the Church seems to have a problem with the Masons.

My personal belief is that because it is a group open to those of all faiths, the Church is afraid that association with non-Catholics will cause even more Catholics to leave the Church. The Church really wants Catholics to mostly associate with other Catholics. Hence the real reason KofC was started since much of the KofC lodge positions and degrees were taken from Masonry. The Church objected to Masons, then incorporated some of it into the KofC rather ironic don’t you think?

 

[FCEGM]

RE: Mexican Martyrdom by Rev. Wilfrid Parsons, I am interested in the contents. Do you have a copy on hand and can you share any quotes FCEGM?

Unfortunately, no, Shin; I’ve just ordered it. This article, though, details some of the events of that time:

catholicapologetics.info/catholicteaching/history/cristero.htm

Also, the persecution of the Church during the Spanish Civil War shows the hand of Freemasonry at work:

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=7999&repos=1&subrepos=0&searchid=687575

 

[FCEGM]

Again, I call to question the honesty of that statement. Masonic “codebooks” are openly for sale at most bookstores. That’s where I got mine. You do not have to break into someone’s house to get one. I always love it when people cite trusted sources like “a friend of my brother’s cousin who knew a guy who had a half brother from another marriage who’s grandfather worked with a guy.” This is just more pant-load bigotry at its finest.

By the way, the reviews are mostly positive. I never said they were not. People are only parroting the lies and half-truths written in the book. I cannot fault the reviewers, I fault the guy who wrote the book and created the impressions and distortions.

What “lies”? What “half-truths”? But, wait, I forgot: the Masons are always right and the Church is always wrong.

 

[FCEGM]

And regarding the claim that any Masonic problems for the Church occurred long ago:

PARIS (CWN) - Building on growing criticism of Pope John Paul’s planned visit to France later this month, a coalition of groups on Wednesday called for a series of protest rallies to coincide with the visit.

The groups – including the Green Party, Freemasons, socialist Trotskyites, and birth control organizations among others – called for a rally in Paris on September 22 to coincide with the Holy Father’s visit to Reims.

The Holy Father is visiting Reims to commemorate the baptism of King Clovis 1,500 years ago which marks the birth of France and the beginning of Christianity’s spread outside of Italy into the rest of Europe.

The protests follow on a failed bombing attempt at the tomb of St. Louis-Marie Grignon de Montfort in Saint-Laurent-sur-Sevre which the Pope is due to visit. Other protests include criticism of spending public money on transportation and security for the visit, and the renunciation of baptisms by disgruntled Catholics.

catholicculture.org/news/features/index.cfm?recnum=2100&repos=4&subrepos=1&searchid=687575

 

[Shin]

Unfortunately, no, Shin; I’ve just ordered it. This article, though, details some of the events of that time:

catholicapologetics.info/catholicteaching/history/cristero.htm

Also, the persecution of the Church during the Spanish Civil War shows the hand of Freemasonry at work:

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=7999&repos=1&subrepos=0&searchid=687575

Thanks for the links. I look forwards to quotes if you get the chance when it comes in!

 

[FCEGM]

So I guess this is also why the KofC also excludes women? They cannot keep a secret? I am having trouble understanding the point you are trying to make. Since you cannot note which Masonic traditions are in conflict with the Church (please, from actual Masonic sources, not dribble that others write or interpret) we don’t know what has changed or not changed now do we? We just have generalized statements being quoted with no actual specifics.

I understand the Grand Lodge in England has requested from the Vatican specifics on what the Vatican objects to as to make membership in Masonic groups acceptable to the Church. The Church apparently has ignored them. I for one would like to see the Church outline specifically what they object to or what needs to change to make Masonic membership acceptable and no longer in conflict with the Church. I think that is very reasonable since the Masons do not seem to have a problem with the Church, but the Church seems to have a problem with the Masons.

This article addresses specifics:

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=1243&repos=1&subrepos=0&searchid=687580

 

[FCEGM]

Thanks for the links. I look forwards to quotes if you get the chance when it comes in!

Will do!!

 

[beischel]

Unfortunately, no, Shin; I’ve just ordered it. This article, though, details some of the events of that time:

catholicapologetics.info/catholicteaching/history/cristero.htm

Also, the persecution of the Church during the Spanish Civil War shows the hand of Freemasonry at work:

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=7999&repos=1&subrepos=0&searchid=687575

I just love this kind of stuff. Freemasonry just get linked into every government that was overthrown. Wikipedia sheds some objective light on the subject.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Judeo-Masonic_conspiracy_theory

As I understand the logic used in these books, because people involved were Freemasons, then Freemasonry is the center of the problem as you see it. So because Facists Italy had mostly Catholics involved in the then government of Italy, I have to assume that the Catholic Church was involved in helping bring Musolini into power because that is the kind of reasoning used here. So then one can now blame the Catholic Church for the persecution of Jews during the Second World War. What goes around will come around. When you allow others to bare false witness, it can also be used against you…for whom the bell tolls.

 

[beischel]

This article addresses specifics:

catholicculture.org/culture/library/view.cfm?id=1243&repos=1&subrepos=0&searchid=687580

Yes, it does thank you. Except for the fact that most of the specifics are incorrect. Therefore, the Church is basing its ruling on incorrect information or at best, things taken completely out of context, and or distorted.

Pike as a mason wrote things as he saw it. That does not make it something that was endorsed or accepted by Masonic organizations. For example, if I wrote a book on the Catholic Church as I saw it, does that mean that everyone else should take my writings as that which was approved and accepted by the Church? Of course not. One person’s opinion should not be the basis to damn an entire organization.

Masonic organization clearly state over and over they are NOT a religion. Yet, it constantly surfaces and noted in this article are such proofs as having a “feast day” probably referring to “St. John’s Day” when the officers of the lodge all attend Sunday services at the church the lodge master belongs to so how that makes it a religions is beyond me. Burial ritual is another point cited. Seems our military also has a burial ritual so I guess our military is now a religion. I have never seen the cross referred to as a symbol of nature. I’ve never seen a cross used - period since Masons are of many faiths. Also, “their alter” was referenced except, there was no alter in our lodge. Ever. And what is the issue with other religions using their holy book - why is that a problem for Catholics? Why do we care? Oh, and yes, they use the term “seek light” but never as in spiritual instruction, but as truth…as in don’t we all seek the truth? I know I am trying here. While we are on truth, the name Jesus as NOT forbidden to be used in the lodge. Yes an oath is taken, and you are told the oath is symbolic and not literal. All I see are Catholics taking things to extreme and looking for issues and problems that are just not there.