Masonic Conspiracy Theory

[beischel]

My big gripe is with catholics who are disobedient to the magisterium and the Church and remain in the Lodge…you are not allowed…canon law 1983…it is grave matter…and now you have** full knowledge**…so please do not have full consent and remain in the lodge…

John, even many priests I know do not follow the magisterium in its entirety. One priest, now in his 70’s told me that he was not going to tell married couples they could not use other than natural methods of birth control. He said he had no right to impose such things on a family who already had more children than they knew they could handle. Also many priests used to support un-married priests, now more and more will tell you that it should be optional.

I guess we all have our gripes about the Church and our fellow Catholics.

My biggest gripe is that the Church does not prohibit parents sending their children, or their children attending public universities or even so-called Catholic universities who do not support the Church and its teachings. On one hand I cannot be a member of the Masons because it is a grave sin, but the Church does not seem to have a problem with Catholic or public universities that promote abortion, homosexuality, no-Hell, God is the Earth and other such non-sense. On my street alone three young women went to a public university - all three are now pro-abortion and one does not believe in Hell or God (this girl was even the Catholic eduction K-12). So while the Church worries about a fraternal organization, it says and does nothing about the real enemies of the Church and its people.

 

[John_of_Woking]

John, even many priests I know do not follow the magisterium in its entirety. One priest, now in his 70’s told me that he was not going to tell married couples they could not use other than natural methods of birth control. He said he had no right to impose such things on a family who already had more children than they knew they could handle. Also many priests used to support un-married priests, now more and more will tell you that it should be optional.

I guess we all have our gripes about the Church and our fellow Catholics.

My biggest gripe is that the Church does not prohibit parents sending their children, or their children attending public universities or even so-called Catholic universities who do not support the Church and its teachings. On one hand I cannot be a member of the Masons because it is a grave sin, but the Church does not seem to have a problem with Catholic or public universities that promote abortion, homosexuality, no-Hell, God is the Earth and other such non-sense. On my street alone three young women went to a public university - all three are now pro-abortion and one does not believe in Hell or God (this girl was even the Catholic eduction K-12). So while the Church worries about a fraternal organization, it says and does nothing about the real enemies of the Church and its people.

Well I do congratulate you on leaving the lodge:thumbsup:. Holy Mother Church knows what’s best even if we can’t see it ourselves. I think regarding public/catholic universities the Church has moral principles which educational establishments would do well to follow. Unfortunately you are right that people often come out of these places worse. Still there are some good one’s Steubenville and Maryvale here in the UK.

As for the priest there are hundreds of priests who deny Humanae Vitae. They deny Christ when they deny His Infallible Teaching.

 

[beischel]

Why don’t you post for everyone all the oaths required to be taken in the lodge? From the lowest level to the highest degrees. Shouldn’t be a problem, should it? Perhaps you could get some high level masons to help you with the higher degrees.

Yes, because I promised to keep them a secret. So it is a problem. It is my word.

However, that being said, the oaths are available in one form or another and different Jurisdictions may change the oath so they may differ. They are still available and you can find them with a minimal effort.

Well since I received the 32 degree, not sure what you mean by other masons helping me with higher degrees.

 

[beischel]

Dear gamewell/ex-mason’s here: Is this true?

Consider the penalties of the obligations (Nevada ritual, circa 1984):
"To all of which I do solemnly and sincerely promise and swear, without any hesitation, mental reservation, or secret evasion of mind in me whatsoever; binding myself under no less a penalty than that of having….
Entered Apprentice Degree: “…my throat cut across, my tongue torn out, and with my body buried in the sands of the sea at low-water mark, where the tide ebbs and flows twice in twenty-four hours, should I ever knowingly or willfully violate this, my solemn Obligation of an Entered Apprentice.”
Fellow Craft Degree: “…my left breast torn open, my heart and vitals taken thence, and with my body given as a prey to the vultures of the air, should I ever knowingly, or willfully, violate this, my solemn Obligation of a Fellow Craft.”;
Master Mason Degree: “…my body severed in twain, my bowels taken thence, and with my body burned to ashes, and the ashes thereof scattered to the four winds of Heaven, that there might remain neither track, trace nor remembrance among man or Masons of so vile and perjured a wretch as I should be, should I ever knowingly or willfully violate this, my solemn Obligation of a Master Mason.”

If that is true that is utterly vile and reprehensible. How can any Catholic, how can ANYONE, with a clear conscience even say that…?

As stated many times, before anyone takes an oath, they are told that these oaths are NOT to be taken literally. They are merely symbolic oaths to remind a Mason to keep the secrets (handshake, word, signal). As I said before many times, it is like when you were a kid and promised to stick a needle in your eye if you violated the secret of a friend. It was not to be taken literally. Same with Masonic oaths.

 

[beischel]

Help me out here a litte. What is the definition of a secret society? How does it differ from a society with secrets?

A secret society is one that conceals its very existence. Also the member of the secret society are not generally known. Meeting places are also kept secret.

Nope I am pretty much a right wing, gun toting, conservative. And you?<<<

 

[John_of_Woking]

As stated many times, before anyone takes an oath, they are told that these oaths are NOT to be taken literally. They are merely symbolic oaths to remind a Mason to keep the secrets (handshake, word, signal). As I said before many times, it is like when you were a kid and promised to stick a needle in your eye if you violated the secret of a friend. It was not to be taken literally. Same with Masonic oaths.

Come on there is a world of difference betwen a little boy’s exuberant outbursts and the serious masonic candidate in a temple/lodge swearing an oath with all the elaborate rituals.

Did you place your hand on a Bible? Were there altars in the Lodge?

Anyway peace - and stay close to The Bride of Christ - The Church

 

[beischel]

Well I do congratulate you on leaving the lodge:thumbsup:. Holy Mother Church knows what’s best even if we can’t see it ourselves. I think regarding public/catholic universities the Church has moral principles which educational establishments would do well to follow. Unfortunately you are right that people often come out of these places worse. Still there are some good one’s Steubenville and Maryvale here in the UK.

As for the priest there are hundreds of priests who deny Humanae Vitae. They deny Christ when they deny His Infallible Teaching.

Well I would like to see you go head to head with some of these priests on some of those subjects.

As for universities, for many middle class here in the U.S. it is a struggle to even afford tuition for public college. For many, a true Catholic education has become a luxury for the rich and no longer something accessible to the average Catholic family. So many families have to send their children to public schools that corrupt morals, faith and have a very anti-Christian attitude.

Even K to 12 has become out of reach of the average family. I have noticed huge increases in tuition as the Church had to spend so much of our money paying the victims of religious child abuse. Instead of money going to the schools, it went to pay off the victims. Such as shame now that so many are denied a Catholic education here in the U.S.

 

[beischel]

Come on there is a world of difference betwen a little boy’s exuberant outbursts and the serious masonic candidate in a temple/lodge swearing an oath with all the elaborate rituals.

Did you place your hand on a Bible? Were there altars in the Lodge?

Anyway peace - and stay close to The Bride of Christ - The Church

Yes, to hand on Bible, no to there being alters in lodges. What serious masonic candidate? It’s a freaking fraternal organization with secrets that gives it kind of a wooooo, this is fun, neat, different. Men are just like kids, only our toys get more expensive as we get older. In any case, that’s kind of the whole issue I have with the Church versus Masonry today. People read more into it than what is really there. It’s a giant fraternity with fellowship and assistance if needed. All the other stuff just adds to the grand illusion, hence what makes it fun. Who doesn’t want to ride in little go-carts, wear funny hats, etc. in parades? That’s what the Shrine does. Even had a nice fishing and camping area at one time for members. I mean really sinister stuff

I try to stay close to the Church in spite of what you might think. I’m very active and very giving - more than most. But I have to say, I do miss having the Masonic security blanket for me and especially my wife. I don’t have it now with KofC as they turned my wife down for a LTC policy. I miss the friends I had there. I miss the pageantry of the lodge and now I cannot drive little go-carts in parades for fun. I miss helping the burns and crippled children’s hospitals. You know, what Catholics seem to think is all that evil stuff.

 

[Cetil]

John, even many priests I know do not follow the magisterium in its entirety. One priest, now in his 70’s told me that he was not going to tell married couples they could not use other than natural methods of birth control. He said he had no right to impose such things on a family who already had more children than they knew they could handle. Also many priests used to support un-married priests, now more and more will tell you that it should be optional.

I guess we all have our gripes about the Church and our fellow Catholics.

My biggest gripe is that the Church does not prohibit parents sending their children, or their children attending public universities or even so-called Catholic universities who do not support the Church and its teachings. On one hand I cannot be a member of the Masons because it is a grave sin, but the Church does not seem to have a problem with Catholic or public universities that promote abortion, homosexuality, no-Hell, God is the Earth and other such non-sense. On my street alone three young women went to a public university - all three are now pro-abortion and one does not believe in Hell or God (this girl was even the Catholic eduction K-12). So while the Church worries about a fraternal organization, it says and does nothing about the real enemies of the Church and its people.

There are some teachings I have struggled with too, and I don’t understand why the Church teaches what it does but it’s still the Church to me, so I go along. The issue of freemasonry must seem to be in that category for you to. But sometimes we just have to go along to be saved.
I agree something has to be done about the lack of Catholic identity in a lot our institutions. That’s for sure. And we could learn a lot about taking care of each other from the Amish and some Evangelicals. They are much better at supporting one another than many Catholics. That’s one area we are really falling down in.

Peace,

C.

 

[jam070406]

Yes, to hand on Bible, no to there being alters in lodges. What serious masonic candidate? It’s a freaking fraternal organization with secrets that gives it kind of a wooooo, this is fun, neat, different. Men are just like kids, only our toys get more expensive as we get older. In any case, that’s kind of the whole issue I have with the Church versus Masonry today. People read more into it than what is really there. It’s a giant fraternity with fellowship and assistance if needed. All the other stuff just adds to the grand illusion, hence what makes it fun. Who doesn’t want to ride in little go-carts, wear funny hats, etc. in parades? That’s what the Shrine does. Even had a nice fishing and camping area at one time for members. I mean really sinister stuff

I try to stay close to the Church in spite of what you might think. I’m very active and very giving - more than most. But I have to say, I do miss having the Masonic security blanket for me and especially my wife. I don’t have it now with KofC as they turned my wife down for a LTC policy. I miss the friends I had there. I miss the pageantry of the lodge and now I cannot drive little go-carts in parades for fun. I miss helping the burns and crippled children’s hospitals. You know, what Catholics seem to think is all that evil stuff.

Naw, the “evil stuff” is pretty well documented in books such as Behind The Lodge Door.

 

[beischel]

Naw, the “evil stuff” is pretty well documented in books such as Behind The Lodge Door.

Too bad the book is mostly B.S. as they say. Well of course, most conspiracy writings are fabricated so why should take book be any different.

 

[jam070406]

Too bad the book is mostly B.S. as they say. Well of course, most conspiracy writings are fabricated so why should take book be any different.

Well it contains many quotes and footnotes. Including from New Age magazine, which was a Masonic publication, no?

 

[kenofken]

Maybe we Masons ARE sinister, and maybe we’re not…
Of course I could tell you that I’m NOT a Mason, but then that’s just what you’d expect a conspirator to say if he was biding his time to rule your world. So I might just be a crank pulling your leg, but can you really afford to assume that?..

 

[beischel]

Well it contains many quotes and footnotes. Including from New Age magazine, which was a Masonic publication, no?

Don’t know. Never received anything called “New Age Magazine” however, send me these quotes and footnotes and the entire article the purport to come from so we can make sure nothing was taken out of context - which is frequently done in anti-masonic writings. Then we can discuss.

 

[beischel]

Maybe we Masons ARE sinister, and maybe we’re not…
Of course I could tell you that I’m NOT a Mason, but then that’s just what you’d expect a conspirator to say if he was biding his time to rule your world. So I might just be a crank pulling your leg, but can you really afford to assume that?..

LOL, very funny!

 

[jam070406]

Maybe we Masons ARE sinister, and maybe we’re not…
Of course I could tell you that I’m NOT a Mason, but then that’s just what you’d expect a conspirator to say if he was biding his time to rule your world. So I might just be a crank pulling your leg, but can you really afford to assume that?..

I’m not worried about you ruling my world. I’m concerned about the dictatorship of relativism which shuns Traditional dogmas and absolutes that the Pope has spoken out about. Promoted and advanced by your Masonic lodges. If the silly Bishops up in Rome got it wrong about Masonry, what other doctrines on morality can you shun eh?
The Catholic Church attempts to battle back against the culture of death all around it. Meanwhile the Mason apologists on these boards will continue to giggle and snear.

 

[beischel]

I’m not worried about you ruling my world. I’m concerned about the dictatorship of relativism which shuns Traditional dogmas and absolutes that the Pope has spoken out about. Promoted and advanced by your Masonic lodges. If the silly Bishops up in Rome got it wrong about Masonry, what other doctrines on morality can you shun eh?
The Catholic Church attempts to battle back against the culture of death all around it. Meanwhile the Mason apologists on these boards will continue to giggle and snear.

Traditional Dogma? Not trying to get off topic, but TRADITIONAL Dogma allowed priests to marry for more than the first 1,000 years of Church history. So if we are concerned with maintaining tradition, shouldn’t we go back to what once was? The only real reason that priests were forbidden to be married was over concern that the children of priests could possibly inherit Church property due to the inheritance laws in force at that time. The smokescreen the Church created was that since Jesus was not married, priests should not be married. Apostolic tradition is that clergy were married so therefore we should return to what once was.

Didn’t the pope even recently change his position on condoms? Disguised as something about preventing disease which comes about from illicit sexual behavior in the first place so I am not sure what exactly he was getting to, but sounded like a change in a moral position to me.

 

[davidv]

Traditional Dogma? Not trying to get off topic, but TRADITIONAL Dogma allowed priests to marry for more than the first 1,000 years of Church history.

False. The celebate priesthood in not dogma.

So if we are concerned with maintaining tradition, shouldn’t we go back to what once was?

No. Truth does not change, but circumstances do.

The only real reason that priests were forbidden to be married was over concern that the children of priests could possibly inherit Church property due to the inheritance laws in force at that time. The smokescreen the Church created was that since Jesus was not married, priests should not be married. Apostolic tradition is that clergy were married so therefore we should return to what once was.

Based on this comment it appears that you don’t understand Church teaching on this matter.

Didn’t the pope even recently change his position on condoms?

No. the secular media just claimed he did by misrepresenting him.

Disguised as something about preventing disease which comes about from illicit sexual behavior in the first place so I am not sure what exactly he was getting to, but sounded like a change in a moral position to me.

Sounds like a another misunderstanding on your part.

 

[beischel]

Definition of DOGMA

1
a : something held as an established opinion; especially : a definite authoritative tenet
b : a code of such tenets
c : a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds
2
: a doctrine or body of doctrines concerning faith or morals formally stated and authoritatively proclaimed by a church
See dogma defined for English-language learners »
Examples of DOGMA

These new findings challenge the current dogma in the field.

The Saudi regime has tried to deflect questions about its management of the country… by supporting and spreading an uncompromising religious dogma. —Fareed Zakaria, Newsweek, 1 Oct. 2001
+]more
Origin of DOGMA

Latin dogmat-, dogma, from Greek, from dokein to seem — more at decent
First Known Use: 1638
Related to DOGMA

Synonyms: canon, doctrine

Hmmm, looks like dogma to me.

Truth about priests marrying for more than a thousand years? I agree that did not change. Yes, circumstances changed as it relates to the laws of inheritance. We do not have those issues today (at least in this country) so the circumstances have again changed and priests should be allowed to be married - at least before we run out of priests.

Oh, I think I do understand the Church’s “teaching” on this item. And I do appreciate the Church’s revisionist history on said subject.

As for the condom issue, then I would appreciate you clarifying the position. Because I stated the position, maybe not very well, as the priests explained it on Fox News. So please clear it up for me.

 

[davidv]

Definition of DOGMA

1
a : something held as an established opinion; especially : a definite authoritative tenet
b : a code of such tenets
c : a point of view or tenet put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds
2
: a doctrine or body of doctrines concerning faith or morals formally stated and authoritatively proclaimed by a church
See dogma defined for English-language learners »
Examples of DOGMA

These new findings challenge the current dogma in the field.

The Saudi regime has tried to deflect questions about its management of the country… by supporting and spreading an uncompromising religious dogma. —Fareed Zakaria, Newsweek, 1 Oct. 2001
+]more
Origin of DOGMA

Latin dogmat-, dogma, from Greek, from dokein to seem — more at decent
First Known Use: 1638
Related to DOGMA

Synonyms: canon, doctrine

Hmmm, looks like dogma to me.

Truth about priests marrying for more than a thousand years? I agree that did not change. Yes, circumstances changed as it relates to the laws of inheritance. We do not have those issues today (at least in this country) so the circumstances have again changed and priests should be allowed to be married - at least before we run out of priests.

Oh, I think I do understand the Church’s “teaching” on this item. And I do appreciate the Church’s revisionist history on said subject.

As for the condom issue, then I would appreciate you clarifying the position. Because I stated the position, maybe not very well, as the priests explained it on Fox News. So please clear it up for me.

As this is far off topic, please use the search feature in the Catholic News section. You will find threads there that will clarify this for you.