Mass at the beach?

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And another from Cardinal Sean’s blog:
A wonderful aspect of this retreat was the opportunity to visit several holy sites, mostly around the Sea of Galilee. The Holy Land is sometimes referred to as the “Fifth Gospel,” because the geography and the sites speak of Christ and His message of salvation.
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At the Rock of the Primacy of Peter, just a few yards from the Sea of Galilee, we celebrated Mass outdoors.
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Seems clear to me:

Redemptionis Sacramentum regarding where Mass may be celebrated:
  1. The Place for the Celebration of Holy Mass
    [108.] “The celebration of the Eucharist is to be carried out in a sacred place, unless in a particular case necessity requires otherwise. In this case the celebration must be in a decent place”.197 The diocesan Bishop shall be the judge for his diocese concerning this necessity, on a case-by-case basis.
 
GEddie said:
Well, the Last Supper was not by the Sea of Galilee because that is several days’ walk from Jerusalem 🤷

He did, however, break bread there with them after His Resurrection.

And wasn’t the Cenaculum a rooftop deck in His time? The modern vault was put up in the 1200s.

ICXC NIKA
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But my point was that He COULD have held the Last Supper anywhere, since He is God. 3 day’s walk or not.

Sure he had fish on the Sea, after he reappeared to the apostles. But that wasn’t like the Last Supper’s ritual.

No, the Upper Room was a room, thus, the locked doors.
 
Cathryn said:
Seems clear to me:

Redemptionis Sacramentum regarding where Mass may be celebrated:
  1. The Place for the Celebration of Holy Mass
    [108.] “The celebration of the Eucharist is to be carried out in a sacred place, unless in a particular case necessity requires otherwise. In this case the celebration must be in a decent place”.197 The diocesan Bishop shall be the judge for his diocese concerning this necessity, on a case-by-case basis.
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Seems clear to most of us. Just because things CAN be done, doesn’t mean they SHOULD be done.

I guess it depends on how one defines “sacred place,” and “decent place.”
 
TheRealJuliane said:
But my point was that He COULD have held the Last Supper anywhere, since He is God. 3 day’s walk or not.

Sure he had fish on the Sea, after he reappeared to the apostles. But that wasn’t like the Last Supper’s ritual.

No, the Upper Room was a room, thus, the locked doors.
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Well it was a passover meal, so it had to follow the rules of the seder and was probably eaten reclining on couches.

And I don;t think all those Cardinals and Bishops above had mass outside because there was no indoor church nearby, and so there was a necessity for an outdoor mass, but because it was a good place to have mass.

Necessity might mean that if a priest and laypeople are hiking in the mountains, for example, then since there will probably be no chapels nearby (unlike the Alps), saying mass would out of necessity mean that it is done on a flat rock.
 
It is the prerogative of the bishop to decide when there is a valid need to hold mass outside. Traditionally, most bishops have defined ‘valid need’ as being much broader than people on this thread seem to want to interpret it, and I would venture to say that every diocese in the country not infrequently has outdoor masses. They’re certainly a common occurrence around here, whether for festivals, retreats, camping trips in remote areas, etc. If the bishop has approved it, and there’s no reason to believe he hasn’t, than it’s licit.
 
DhuAlQarnayn said:
It is the prerogative of the bishop to decide when there is a valid need to hold mass outside. Traditionally, most bishops have defined ‘valid need’ as being much broader than people on this thread seem to want to interpret it, and I would venture to say that every diocese in the country not infrequently has outdoor masses. They’re certainly a common occurrence around here, whether for festivals, retreats, camping trips in remote areas, etc. If the bishop has approved it, and there’s no reason to believe he hasn’t, than it’s licit.
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Redemptionis Sacramentum regarding where Mass may be celebrated:
  1. The Place for the Celebration of Holy Mass
    [108.] "The celebration of the Eucharist is to be carried out in a sacred place, unless in a particular case** necessity requires otherwise. In this case the celebration must be in a decent place".197 The diocesan Bishop shall be the judge for his diocese concerning this necessity, on a case-by-case basis.**
The word is “necessity”. I know my bishop would follow these rules, and decide on a case by case basis. He would not consider this beach party/ Mass a necessity. I also noticed that at least one of the pictures posted on this thread showed the Mass being celebrated without even an altar cloth. Even if there is a necessity for a Mass, and it is approved by the Bishop, the General Instructions of the Roman Missal are still to be followed and an altar cloth must be used. The priest would still have to use proper vestments, etc.
 
po18guy said:
This is why I am thinking it needs to be structured like a retreat. If the beach is a half-mile from the parish, it is awfully hard to justify this. If there is no parish nearby, OK then. But otherwise, it should be a day at the beach followed by mass in the parish.
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Thank you18guy.
I was thinking along the same lines. :heaven:
God Bless our Forum Elders!:gopray2::angel1::heaven::harp:
Kathryn Ann:curtsey::curtsey::yyeess:
 
dixieagle said:
This is an excellent discussion of the question:

catholicexchange.com/does-mass-have-to-be-said-in-a-church/

In sum, Mass should, generally speaking, be said in a church, if possible. That said, there are exceptions (beyond the battlefield, natural disaster scenarios):

“Similarly, if a priest is on some outdoor excursion, far from buildings of any kind, he may celebrate Mass outside in an appropriate place. Before his election to the papacy, John Paul II frequently led groups of Polish teenagers on camping and hiking trips, and every morning they would find a clean, level rock or tree stump upon which he celebrated the Eucharist for them.”
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:heaven::harp::grouphug:Thank you for the link, dixieagle!:dancing::angel1::heaven:
:curtsey:Kathryn Ann:flowers:
 
An awful lot of leaps of intuition go into these threads.

No-one knows the canonical status of the mass at the beach. The Bishop could have easily said: “Father, isn’t it time you had mass at the beach with the young people like your predecessors used to?”

No-one knows what ground rules the bishop has laid down. If there are a few campuses/colleges around he may have some regulations set out regarding such liturgies.

No-one participating in this thread knows anything about this situation yet we are all commentating like we are canon lawyers!

And furthermore, this thread is possibly negatively influencing the way a young catholic thinks about her/his pastor without ANY evidence that anything illicit is happening.

And all the suggestions to phone the bishop are entirely ridiculous. Get a life people.

First - the call will probably not get past the gatekeeper in the first place.

Secondly: complaining that the priest is spending time with young people? Come on - how far is that going to go?

Thirdly: we have no idea if the priest is a diocesan or a religious, and so complaining to the bishop may be the wrong person anyway.

How about we say: Mass on the beach with a lot of other Catholics: That sounds wonderful. Have fun. You are very privileged and this may be one of those masses you remember for the rest of your life. Please say a prayer for us.

End of rant…
 
TheRealJuliane said:
But my point was that He COULD have held the Last Supper anywhere, since He is God. 3 day’s walk or not.

Sure he had fish on the Sea, after he reappeared to the apostles. But that wasn’t like the Last Supper’s ritual.

No, the Upper Room was a room, thus, the locked doors.
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The “dining room” (for lack of better words) was the proper place for the passover meal. Jesus respected the ritual traditions of the Jewish faith. We should do the same and celebrate Mass in a church.
 
superamazingman said:
The “dining room” (for lack of better words) was the proper place for the passover meal. Jesus respected the ritual traditions of the Jewish faith. We should do the same and celebrate Mass in a church.
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AND we do week after week, day after day, but sometimes there are things called “special occasions,” when the priest takes some youth, or another group (maybe young men who want to be priests, or the altar servers or whatever) and gives them some one on one time, and helps them experience something special, and then they celebrate with mass. Maybe a hike into the mountains or a day on a beach, with mass as the highlight.

It seems like a simple concept to me.🤷

I think more people ought to experience it. It’s a great experience and one that can change people.
 
Cathryn said:
He would not consider this beach party/ Mass a necessity.
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Really? You know this? Did you ask him?

I agree with Triumphguy, insofar as a lot of assumptions and leaps in logic are being made. Necessity can have a broad meaning, from person to person in fact. In the end, the one to determine whether this is a necessity or not is the BISHOP. Not you, not me. People seem to be assuming that “necessity” means what they want it to mean.

It therefore seems that quoting RS is of no use in this “debate,” because it does not really answer the OP’s question (it only would encourage him to seek the counsel of his bishop, who might side one way or the other).

Personal opinion: If this is structured as a retreat, and a church building is decently far away, I don’t see why it should upset anyone as long as it is don’t reverently and correctly. This doesn’t seem like some crazy 70s throwback and an attempt to directly break any rubrics or be different for difference’s sake.

I would encourage the OP to send an e-mail to the bishop, inquiring. I WOULD NOT post on these forums this question, because its answer rests solely with the bishop.
 
triumphguy said:
Well it was a passover meal, so it had to follow the rules of the seder and was probably eaten reclining on couches.

And I don;t think all those Cardinals and Bishops above had mass outside because there was no indoor church nearby, and so there was a necessity for an outdoor mass, but because it was a good place to have mass.

Necessity might mean that if a priest and laypeople are hiking in the mountains, for example, then since there will probably be no chapels nearby (unlike the Alps), saying mass would out of necessity mean that it is done on a flat rock.
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OK well I see that people are going to INSIST on saying that a bikini beach with music blaring and people walking around as an appropriate place for mass. It’s continually being compared to oppressed people sneaking Mass in the woods, guest visits by the Pope to other countries, and soldiers in war who have no other recourse. Jesus ate a fish breakfast on the beach after his resurrection with his disciples, He did not celebrate “communion” there. Unless you’re arguing that we should serve fish at mass???

If all this proof texting, poor examples, things taken out of context are correct then I am the happiest woman on this planet. I can finally have my wedding mass by the volcano at the Mirage Hotel in Las Vegas. I will simply print off this whole sorry post with all these wimpy, lame, and out of context examples and present them as my “argument” to the Bishop. I’m sure he will be won over by the amazing and theologically rich examples presented here as it’s so convincing and gives such appropriate examples.

Using these intelligent, albeit, out of context examples, I can certainly have my wedding poolside with bikini clad ladies sipping on tropical beverages, grill going, and music playing, and a lifeguard occasionally (but softly) blowing his whistle. How exiting! If a solider can have mass in a battlefield, and Blessed John Paul II can say mass in the woods during communist oppression, and Jesus ate a “fish breakfast” on the beach then I should be able to have a “volcano” wedding in Vegas outside the hotel.

I am sure the Bishop will be totally impressed with the intellect and rationalization of these arguments so I’m going to spring like a panther to my keyboard and make sure he gets this thread emailed to him right away so he can “be rational” and approve it, after all, “there’s nothing wrong with it” because people in dire circumstance do it all the time. Gotcha. Besides it is a dire circumstance, I will just “die” if I don’t have my nuptial mass poolside.

I can’t wait, anyone want to attend my “volcano mass wedding?” I can just see the lovely white bows on the lawn chairs and the altar servers in Bermuda shorts carrying tiki torches as they light the candles on the tiki bar that will double as the altar of my Lord.

I hear they make the volcano erupt nice and loud at the moment you’re pronounced husband and wife. And don’t give me your theologizing because you have made it clear, mass can be celebrated anywhere because oppressed, war-time, soldiers, Catholics in hiding, and visiting Popes do it all the time.

I’ve never been happier in my life–this is the single greatest conversion experience I’ve ever had as Catholic. I am going to see if we can have a parking lot Mass at Walmart because I have shopping to do and I need to have things a little more convenient than driving to church for a silly reason like having mass indoors. I love the outdoors don’t you?

Bring on Vegas!

Lorrie
 
Er… blow things out of proportion much?

Did the OP say a “bikini beach”?

We’ve gone from a hike to a mountaintop with mass to a bikini beach and a volcano wedding!
 
triumphguy said:
Er… blow things out of proportion much?

Did the OP say a “bikini beach”?

We’ve gone from a hike to a mountaintop with mass to a bikini beach and a volcano wedding!
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Hey it makes the discussion interesting because if you are going to “exempt” one place then you have to exempt them all —or does no one play something out to it’s logical conclusion? And I have yet to see a beach without scantily clad people on it. Unless it’s a private beach on someone’s property or they have a reserved private area.
 
If you’re going to say YES to Fr Fred having a beach mass then how on earth can you say no to the volcano wedding? Think about it…too much romanticizing about this.

I’ve been to retreats. They always arrange mass in a chapel setting, then they might have a Bible study or meditation time outside.

I don’t think having a family next to me (it IS a public area and you can’t chase people away) grilling hot dogs and cranking out heavy metal is condusive to mass and not one person can give a VALID reason WHY on earth mass needs to be celebrated this way. The church did not burn down, there is no emergency, and I wonder if the Bishop even knows about it. I seriously cannot picture any Bishop saying this is OK.
 
Irishgal49 said:
or does no one play something out to it’s logical conclusion?
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The problem would be whether this is the logical conclusion. It’s the bald man argument.

Anyway, I think you’re using too many straw man arguments. I don’t think anyone on this forum is arguing for a bikini-clad, loud secular music Mass. Instead, they are saying that (all things being equal) a Mass at the beach would be an okay location for a Mass provided that the bishop gave his permission and that all other liturgical practices were followed (use of corporal, proper liturgical attire, etc.)
 
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