Mass. Catholic School Won't Admit Lesbians' Son

[Petergee]

Alright then, I won’t. Please enlighten me as to what really happened. What brought Christianity into the realm of power it is today?

No, I’m not going to let you derail the topic to try to get yourself off the hook. If you’re honestly interested in the truth of the Crusades and the Inquisitions, there are plenty of excellent links and articles on this site.

Assuming that’s true, you’re assuming they’re boastful of that fact.

I said nothing about boasting. Publicly identifying oneself as “LGBT” as if there was nothing wrong with it, is morally wrong according to the Catholic Church.

I believe being transgendered is ok as long as, once again, you remain chaste.

Believe whatever you want. I was merely refuting your claim that the Catholic Church says its OK.

I would say that every child has the right to be raised by caring, intelligent, competent parents. One’s sexuality should not matter.

Say whatever you want. I was merely refuting your claim that the Catholic Church says it doesn’t matter.

Whose moral law? Your’s? Mine? Catholic? Islamic?

You claimed that the Catholic Church taught that certain things are moral. I merely piointed out you are incorrect. What you or I or anyone else believes is another question.

Morals are subjective to the individual, but you’re welcome to think otherwise.

My point is tghat the Catholic Church vehemently denies this claim.

So, what if they’re gay and married?

The Church doesn’t say that it’s immoral for married people with SSAD to procreate andf raise children. On the contrary. But if they identify themselves as “gay” then that would at the very least raise a question as to their commitment to chastity.

Right, and how does a gay parent do any of that to their child? Is it by proximity? Is sin going to jump off of them onto the child? Is it when they sit down to dinner to talk about their day? Maybe it’s when the child sees both of them hold hands.

As I said, by giving scandal to the child and depriving him of his natural God-given utterly basic human right to be procreated and raised by married parents.

From a Catholic standpoint, what in scripture lets you know this?

Please begin with Catholicism 101. The Catholic Church produced the Bible, but she is not a “Bible-based church”.

From a secular standpoint it doesn’t even matter.

Maybe not from your personal standpoint. Plenty of people see that it matters very much from a secular standpoint. A child’s natural God-given utterly basic human rights to his inniocence and to be procreated and raised by married parents, are prior to and independent of any religious considerations.

 

[rlg94086]

I would suspect, that as homosexuals become more excepted by society that it will have a negative impact on the churches reputation, which isn’t getting any better recently.

It would be nice if they were more excepted, but unfortunately the trend is in the opposite direction.

I had my first 2 mommies experience at my kids’ public school. My 2nd grader’s class had a Mother’s Day presentation/tea for all the moms, and I was there helping because I had to drive Grandma there in place of my wife (she couldn’t get out of work). One of the students had both mommies there.

The funny thing was when we got home, I mentioned to my wife that I was glad that Grandma was in town because I was the only Dad there. My son said, “there was another Dad there…he had blonde hair and was wearing a blue shirt.” One of the two mommies was apparently well disguised by her haircut and clothing choices.

We are all obliged to just accept what is obviously disordered for “normal.” It isn’t.

 

[Petergee]

they are a private school they can do what they want, as long as the public funds are not used in religious classes. the partial funding of private schools can be justified by the fact that private school children’s parents still pay taxes to send public school children to school, therefore they are entitled to receive the benefits of the taxes they are STILL required to pay.

It’s terrible the way the US governments make Catholic schools jump through hoops in such a demeaning and discriminatory way. Why don’t your bishops and ordinary US Catholics protest more about this?

 

[Petergee]

Wow.

Just Wow.

At first I hoped that you were writing facetiously, but now I don’t think so.

I hope that you don’t enjoy a position of authority or power over anyone.

Pax,
OA

Can you please explain these comments?

 

[Jermosh]

The school can do what it wants, but I think the idea is that parents are expected to raise the school children in accordance with Catholic doctrine. If the child learns through his religion classes that his mom’s lifestyle is condemned by the Church, is that a message that will be validated at home, or contradicted? Very confusing. And if the child is enrolled, would the school later be subject to a lawsuit on this very basis?–i.e. that the school’s moral teaching is denigrating her lifestyle to her son.

Not all Catholic schools expect the students to be Catholic, in fact they can lose funding if they do. My daughters school had Jewish, Muslim, and Hindu students, they were giving other curriculum during religious ed.

 

[AnotherVoice]

Back in March of this year a Denver Catholic school was in the news for a similar case. The discussions on CAF resembled these posts. The Archbishop of Denver, Charles Chaput, addressed the issue and explained his reasoning. See the attached kink for one of the articlesm there are others:

catholicnewsagency.com/news/denver_archbishop_explains_why_lesbian_couples_child_not_admitted_to_school/

The situation may be different here, I don’t know, but the explanation provided by Archbishop Chaput demonstrated the concern and depth of consideration applied to the facets of the situation prior to reaching a decision. His reasoning and openness to explaining his position in a very direct fashion changed my mind on that issue. I could certainly see that this man was not punitive and that he had the good of his entire school system in mind.

 

[Anna2552]

cbsnews.com/stories/2010/05/12/ap/national/main6477159.shtml

This is a recent story about an 8 year old boy being turned away from a Catholic school in MA because he is the child of a lesbian couple. Just wondering what people’s thoughts are on this issue. Do you think the child should be turned away? What kind of lasting impact (if any) do you think stories like this could have on the church in the U.S.?

That the “parents” would push an innocent child into a school situation, where they know their lifestyle is not accepted, is indicative of just how much further their disorder extends beyond just sexuality.

 

[livnlern]

That the “parents” would push an innocent child into a school situation, where they know their lifestyle is not accepted, is indicative of just how much further their disorder extends beyond just sexuality.

I agree that it’s wrong to push an innocent child into such a situation. How his “parents” live is not his fault. These women probably thought they could intimidate school faculty into accepting their child by raising a stink and getting the media on their side.
I’m glad the school stood up to this and stuck with Catholic teaching, unlike other higher level Catholic schools that give in to secular ideals.

 

[st_lucy]

Not all Catholic schools expect the students to be Catholic, in fact they can lose funding if they do. My daughters school had Jewish, Muslim, and Hindu students, they were giving other curriculum during religious ed.

This is ridiculous. Why would one send their child to a Catholic school but insist that their child be taught Jewish beliefs?

This goes back to the fact that everyone thinks that they are entitled to everything. If you want your child to be taught Hindu then you should be sending your child to a Hindu school and not a Muslim school.

These women knew exactly what was going to happen when they tried to send their child to a Catholic school. They are not fooling anyone. And I think it is board line child abuse to put the child through this on purpose.

 

[eureka525]

Just gonna throw this out there, not necessarily my opinion but it’s been talked about in the op ed’s here in MA:

The child will undoubtedly be ridiculed and told by someone in his life, and most likely sooner rather than later, that his “moms’” lifestyle is ‘wrong’, etc. regardless of where he goes to school. Would it maybe be better for the child to have a solid Christian education to rely upon and to hear something like that in a religious education setting that is designed to be supportive and nurturing towards children?

 

[pigtown]

This child is being used by his mothers. Surely they know the Church teaches against gay marriage so I wonder why they would try to have the child enrolled in a Catholic school. The child will have enough problems without having to deal with the immorality of his mothers lifestyle in school. The Catholic school is right. They should not be in the position of putting the boy between his school teachings and his parents’ teachings.

 

[JimG]

“Many of our schools also accept students of other faiths and no faith, and from single parent and divorced parent families. These students are always welcome so long as their parents support the Catholic mission of the school and do not offer a serious counter-witness to that mission in their actions.”

–Archbishop Charles Chaput
archden.org/index.cfm/ID/3560

 

[lynx]

Actually that’s the law - so if you don’ t like it write to your representatives.

Pax,
OA

Consider it done. Also, does being lawful make it moral? They are literally taking public money then discriminating about which part of the public can use their services. It sounds like theft to me.

No, I’m not going to let you derail the topic to try to get yourself off the hook. If you’re honestly interested in the truth of the Crusades and the Inquisitions, there are plenty of excellent links and articles on this site.

I believe what i’ve read and others have studied. Christianity came into power through the edge of a sword. Here’s your chance to say your piece and if you don’t want to then that’s on you. Lets not derail this thread any more.

I said nothing about boasting. Publicly identifying oneself as “LGBT” as if there was nothing wrong with it, is morally wrong according to the Catholic Church.

No it’s not. From what i’ve read in the Apologetics forums being gay and acting on those urges are two separate things. As far as being transgendered, how would you go about curing gender identity disorder?

Believe whatever you want. I was merely refuting your claim that the Catholic Church says its OK.

You may refute but I don’t see any evidence to support that claim. Being born with an homosexual or with gender dysphoria does not qualify you for insta-sin, only acting on those temptations.

Say whatever you want. I was merely refuting your claim that the Catholic Church says it doesn’t matter.

Prove it.

You claimed that the Catholic Church taught that certain things are moral. I merely piointed out you are incorrect. What you or I or anyone else believes is another question.

What? The Catholic church does teach morality. That’s how Catholics understand what is moral. How can you possibly claim the Catholic church doesn’t teach morality?

My point is tghat the Catholic Church vehemently denies this claim.

I know, that’s why I stated you’re free to think otherwise.

The Church doesn’t say that it’s immoral for married people with SSAD to procreate andf raise children. On the contrary. But if they identify themselves as “gay” then that would at the very least raise a question as to their commitment to chastity.

If you’re born gay then you’re gay. If you have a sexual attraction to the same sex you are a homosexual. The label does not denote the chastity.

As I said, by giving scandal to the child and depriving him of his natural God-given utterly basic human right to be procreated and raised by married parents.

Why is this a God given right?

Please begin with Catholicism 101. The Catholic Church produced the Bible, but she is not a “Bible-based church”. Maybe not from your personal standpoint. Plenty of people see that it matters very much from a secular standpoint. A child’s natural God-given utterly basic human rights to his inniocence and to be procreated and raised by married parents, are prior to and independent of any religious considerations.

I don’t see how this is a God given right. Never have I read or heard anything that supports this idea.

It would be nice if they were more excepted, but unfortunately the trend is in the opposite direction.

I would disagree with that. Being gay and having tolerance for homosexuals is no longer a taboo subject and their rights are being cemented by law, it just needs some fine tuning. Homosexual progress has made leaps and bounds in the last century. Can you imagine coming out anywhere in the US 100 years ago claiming to be gay?

We are all obliged to just accept what is obviously disordered for “normal.” It isn’t.

You don’t have to accept anything, but you do have to be tolerant. Homosexuality isn’t the norm, nor will it ever be the norm, but throughout life we all should have learned you can’t discriminate against someone for being different, especially when their difference is out of their control.

 

[VetA]

That’s BS, I don’t care how you justify it. If you take government money you need to play the secularist game, otherwise you’re pathetic. Apparently they’re good enough to take money from homosexuals, just not their kids I see the lessons on theft were avoided at this school.

just because you do not have faith in God does not mean that religious schools have to accept your way of thinking. if you take government money as a private school you are still private because most of the money you get comes from tuition (which pays for teachers, lights water ect ect), not the government. just because the government gives you money to get a projector or textbooks does not mean that the government has a right to tell religious schools what to do.

you’re pathetic.

I see the lessons on theft were avoided at this school.

are you trying to attack the church and its schools because you know your wrong but don’t want to admit it?

 

[Nec5]

You don’t have to accept anything, but you do have to be tolerant. Homosexuality isn’t the norm, nor will it ever be the norm, but throughout life we all should have learned you can’t discriminate against someone for being different, especially when their difference is out of their control.

No, we do not have to be tolerant of sin. In fact, we are called to be intolerant of sin.

As for homosexuality being the norm, your naivety is showing. Homosexual can and has been in the norm in past cultures, usually in full flagrancy right before they collapse. It is becoming the norm here.

If I have to accept that their attraction to the same sex is beyond their control, then I have to accept that attraction to animals or plants is equally beyond their control. Then I have to accept everything. Stop picking and choosing.

 

[VetA]

Leviticus 18:22

You shall not lie with a male as with a woman; such a thing is an abomination.

Leviticus 20:13

If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them shall be put to death for their abominable deed; they have forfeited their lives.

Romans 1:26-27

Therefore, God handed them over to degrading passions. Their females exchanged natural relations for unnatural, and the males likewise gave up natural relations with females and burned with lust for one another. Males did shameful things with males and thus received in their own persons the due penalty for their perversity.

1 Corinthians 6: 9-11

2 3 Do you not know that the unjust will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators nor idolaters nor adulterers nor boy prostitutes nor sodomites nor thieves nor the greedy nor drunkards nor slanderers nor robbers will inherit the kingdom of God. That is what some of you used to be; but now you have had yourselves washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

the bible is quite clear about homosexuality.

 

[VetA]

OFF TOPIC

out of curiosity why does it say i am a trial member, and people with less posts than me say new member?

 

[lynx]

just because you do not have faith in God does not mean that religious schools have to accept your way of thinking.

They should if they’re taking public money, money in which gays, muslims, christians and even atheists pay in to. Why should they be allowed to take public money then discriminate against the public?

if you take government money as a private school you are still private because most of the money you get comes from tuition (which pays for teachers, lights water ect ect), not the government. just because the government gives you money to get a projector or textbooks does not mean that the government has a right to tell religious schools what to do.

I would beg to differ, and to an extent, its been told that schools lose a portion of funding for rejecting individuals. I would prefer they go farther and reject all funding. When you begin discriminating against the people that pay you then they either shouldn’t have to pay or they should get their money back. Otherwise, we’re talking about theft.

are you trying to attack the church and its schools because you know your wrong but don’t want to admit it?

Talk about a foolish loaded question. Look, that school is pathetic, a lesbian’s dollar may be green enough but apparently their child isn’t up to par? PATHETIC THEFT, and as per the quote below I guess this means they will not be inheriting the kingdom of God any time soon.

As for your quotes there are several issues,

1. The assumption that one has the choice to be gay or straight.
2. The meaning of “lie with”. Is this sex? Is this literal?

Assuming we are doing a literal translation, this says that gays should be put to death Who in their right mind would follow this philosophy?

 

[lynx]

No, we do not have to be tolerant of sin. In fact, we are called to be intolerant of sin.

Your false assumption is that being born gay is a sin. If that is the case then God gave them sin, and that doesn’t sound like God to me.

As for homosexuality being the norm, your naivety is showing. Homosexual can and has been in the norm in past cultures, usually in full flagrancy right before they collapse. It is becoming the norm here.

Accepted and normalcy are two different things. Assuming homosexuality was the norm, cultures would die off due to a lack of new members.

If I have to accept that their attraction to the same sex is beyond their control, then I have to accept that attraction to animals or plants is equally beyond their control. Then I have to accept everything. Stop picking and choosing.

What are you even talking about? What am I picking and choosing or are you making stuff up? You do have to accept everything. There are people who are born with attractions to weird things. Here’s a man marrying a cat jezebel.com/5529873/german-man-marries-dying-cat Life is weird, messy and obscene on occasion, deal with it properly.

 

[Ridgerunner]

I really don’t get this.

How did this lesbian couple picture the position this child would be in if (and I hope it wouldn’t be “if”) at some point in the child’s Catholic education, the Church’s doctrines concerning marriage came up? Did they plan to remove the child from school on such days? Let him/her listen to it then contradict it later at home? Was it to create a confrontation when the inevitable happened? To proselytize the other kids about how it’s “normal” to have “two mommies”? Did they plan to remove the child entirely when, in later years, there was actually some kind of teaching about sexuality and sexual sins?

None of it makes sense on its face.