Mass. Catholic School Won't Admit Lesbians' Son

[JimG]

None of it makes sense on its face. That’s why it may be simply about trying to force the Catholic school to change its teachings on homosexual behavior or to accept it as normal.

 

[Polycarp1]

Another one already? Is this the starting of a new trend?

Not if that school receives any public money. I personally wouldn’t want to support anything that might be quantified as gay bashing.

I would suspect, that as homosexuals become more excepted by society that it will have a negative impact on the churches reputation, which isn’t getting any better recently.

A lot of that “public money” is from taxes that Catholics pay and I wouldn’t quantify what happened here as gay bashing as the motivation behind this is more likely Catholic bashing.

Catholics and Catholic beliefs aren’t motivated by what society accepts, but by what God has decreed. At different times "society has accepted and legalized all kinds of wrongs, i.e., slavery, prostitution, euthenasia, abortion, incarceration without trial, harmful drugs, and ethnic cleansing, etc., . There are already groups lobbying for pedophile rights. The whims of a society trying to legalize everything that might limit their quest for uncontrolled self gratification would be a poor moral guide to live by.

 

[choy]

Good job on stating the obvious Also, when you say “thats what you mean” you for got the apostrophe in “that’s”, clearing meaning ‘that is’. Additionally, you need to work on your capitalization and punctuation for your, what should be, sentences above.

Is that what crusades and inquisitions were all about? How exactly did Christianity “win”? Oh right, at the edge of a sword. Kill and torture that which went against the teachings of Christ and the bible. But, maybe i’m wrong and there was a legitimate reason for Christianity coming into power not through years of bloodshed.

ah, your ignorance on the topic shows even more

the inquisitions didn’t happen for another 1000 years after the Roman empire, and the Crusades didn’t happen hundreds of years later. and both had nothing to do about homosexuality

i’m talking about the 1st century, when the original Apostles went throughout the Roman empire (Greece was part of the Roman empire at this time). homosexuality is a wide practice especially among the Greeks, and was accepted by their society. and yet the people were spiritually starved. how did the First Christians won them over? through the preaching of truth and through their good works. they saw how destructive their practices were, and that the gentle and loving Christians brings a message of love and hope

I know. Only recently have we begun pulling ourselves out of the dark ages (the smiley means i’m being facetious)

Assuming being LBGT is morally wrong, which is isn’t, even by Catholic standards. Being homosexual and acting on those urges are two separate things. If these women wish to live together and raise a child while being chaste is that a sin?

if two chaste women living together helping each other raising a child, they won’t be called lesbians in the first place. the fact that they identify themselves as lesbians means they’re not chaste

if i have a male friend with a kid and asks me to live with them so that it will be a less of a burden for them financially, and perhaps i can look after the kid if he’s not home, does that make us gays? no. that makes us roommates. if you identify youself as gays or lesbians, then there’s something more than just being roommates

Short and sweet, homophobia is only going to look bad on the church like it does on the military.

i don’t see why it should. how can detesting an immoral act look bad on an institution that upholds good and true morals? thats only the wish of Church dissenters. the fact is, more people around the world believe in the traditional definition of a marriage and a family, regardless of what the liberal media says

 

[Santi2]

Just gonna throw this out there, not necessarily my opinion but it’s been talked about in the op ed’s here in MA:

The child will undoubtedly be ridiculed and told by someone in his life, and most likely sooner rather than later, that his “moms’” lifestyle is ‘wrong’, etc. regardless of where he goes to school. Would it maybe be better for the child to have a solid Christian education to rely upon and to hear something like that in a religious education setting that is designed to be supportive and nurturing towards children?

How will the school deliver a “solid Christian education” which will not be in conflict with the child’s homelife? Let’s take for granted that the school overlooks this particular child’s circumstances, would that not compromise the nurture and support for the rest of the children in school, their parents and the teachers who abide by Catholic ethics?

 

[Saint_Monica]

I think its wrong to turn an innocent child away. My daughter attends a Catholic school and there are non Catholic children in attendance there. If the child attends and learns the teachings, that child brings these things home, and the teaching are forever a part of that childs life… I just feel that God never turned away the sinful, because their testimony would be of great service… We try to teach our children that God is love, and love is kind, and there is nothing about this that is kind. Are we to turn away a newborn child from a Catholic Foster home because his biological parent, or parents were gay?? I think God would take offense to our actions because we should know better. That is not to say be in agreement with his parents lifestyle. But we wonder why our young are going astray…the outreached hand has sometimes been retracted.

 

[choy]

I think its wrong to turn an innocent child away. My daughter attends a Catholic school and there are non Catholic children in attendance there. If the child attends and learns the teachings, that child brings these things home, and the teaching are forever a part of that childs life… I just feel that God never turned away the sinful, because their testimony would be of great service… We try to teach our children that God is love, and love is kind, and there is nothing about this that is kind. Are we to turn away a newborn child from a Catholic Foster home because his biological parent, or parents were gay?? I think God would take offense to our actions because we should know better. That is not to say be in agreement with his parents lifestyle. But we wonder why our young are going astray…the outreached hand has sometimes been retracted.

i agree that this is a good opportunity for the child to learn teachings of the Church

but also, wouldn’t it be confusing to the child that the school teaches against the lifestyle of his or her parents? and this will become a source of conflict for the child, and either reject the school and Church, or the parents, or both. and what would happen then? the parents will then slap a lawsuit against the school for teaching something that the parents should already know that is part of Catholic doctrine

 

[VetA]

Originally Posted by lynx
Good job on stating the obvious Also, when you say “thats what you mean” you for got the apostrophe in “that’s”, clearing*(do you mean clearly*?) meaning ‘that is’. Additionally, you need to work on your capitalization and punctuation for your, what should be, sentences above.

Good job on the grammar lesson. I have taken the liberty of bolding your mistakes.

my point on this is: this is a conversation on the internet, there is no need of 100% right or correct grammar.

don’t delegitimize someone by attacking the way they speak (to do so is a logical fallacy) delegitimize by breaking down their argument.

plus by correcting one for their mistakes then making mistakes of your (by your i mean anyone doing that, not specifically you Lynx) own makes you look like (for lack of a better term) a jackass.

Matthew 7:1-5

"Stop judging, that you may not be judged. For as you judge, so will you be judged, and the measure with which you measure will be measured out to you. Why do you notice the splinter in your brother’s eye, but do not perceive the wooden beam in your own eye? How can you say to your brother, ‘Let me remove that splinter from your eye,’ while the wooden beam is in your eye? You hypocrite, remove the wooden beam from your eye first; then you will see clearly to remove the splinter from your brother’s eye.

and i know i do not type the best, use the best grammar, or use the best spelling.

 

[ALLGIRLS]

Not all Catholic schools expect the students to be Catholic, in fact they can lose funding if they do. My daughters school had Jewish, Muslim, and Hindu students, they were giving other curriculum during religious ed.

In what places do Catholic schools receive government funding in the U.S. (I know they do in Canada) Here in Missouri we don’t, except in rare circumstances where a Catholic school will provide summer school classes to public school kids, and then they have to cover all the crucifixes and statues! NonCatholic kids know they’ll be going to Mass and religion class (they don’t receive any sacraments, obviously), there’s no “alternative curriculum”. (and they’re also allowed to refused admission to anyone they want, for whatever reason).

I also don’t know why they can’t find a liberal protestant school to send the kid to. And I find it laughable that anyone believes these women may be living chastely! They live together and describe themselves as “married”! They’re not claiming to be just roommates!

In Christ,

Ellen

 

[VetA]

In what places do Catholic schools receive government funding in the U.S. (I know they do in Canada) Here in Missouri we don’t, except in rare circumstances where a Catholic school will provide summer school classes to public school kids, and then they have to cover all the crucifixes and statues! NonCatholic kids know they’ll be going to Mass and religion class (they don’t receive any sacraments, obviously), there’s no “alternative curriculum”. (and they’re also allowed to refused admission to anyone they want, for whatever reason).

I also don’t know why they can’t find a liberal protestant school to send the kid to. And I find it laughable that anyone believes these women may be living chastely! They live together and describe themselves as “married”! They’re not claiming to be just roommates!

In Christ,

Ellen

my school (run by the brothers of the sacred heart) receives funds to buy projectors, document cameras, some textbooks, some laptops (most are provided by the school). anything that has a nice little sticker that says “property of the state of Louisiana” cannot under any circumstances be used for religion class

although the rest of everything is payed by the new Orleans archdiocese, tuition, and brothers. all funds we receive from the state are partial.

 

[Ridgerunner]

In what places do Catholic schools receive government funding in the U.S. (I know they do in Canada) Here in Missouri we don’t, except in rare circumstances where a Catholic school will provide summer school classes to public school kids, and then they have to cover all the crucifixes and statues! NonCatholic kids know they’ll be going to Mass and religion class (they don’t receive any sacraments, obviously), there’s no “alternative curriculum”. (and they’re also allowed to refused admission to anyone they want, for whatever reason).

I also don’t know why they can’t find a liberal protestant school to send the kid to. And I find it laughable that anyone believes these women may be living chastely! They live together and describe themselves as “married”! They’re not claiming to be just roommates!

In Christ,

Ellen

Being a Missourian, I can tell you that Missouri has long had what is sometimes referred to as a “Blaine Amendment”, the effect of which is that the state cannot provide any kind of public funding to support sectarian schools in any way. I think it dates back to the immediate post-Civil War era. Not all states are that way.

The closest Missouri comes is in providing bus transportation to designated “drop zones”, which, for some reason, is not considered support of sectarian schools.

There is, however, an upside to it. Missouri essentially pretends Catholic (or Lutheran or Christian schools) don’t exist at all. The state does not regulate them, and does not feel it can regulate them. Its only remedy against a religious school would be if the school is so lacking that the PARENTS might be prosecuted for neglect. That’s it. It’s the same with home-schooling. Consequently, if the curriculum is effective objectively, (literacy, testing, etc, and then only upon complaint made against a parent) the state has nothing to say about how the school gets it done.

However, out of an undue belief in the propriety of some state rules for state schools, many Catholic schools try to follow the public school pattern in, e.g., teacher certification, number of days, etc. In my opinion, this is often misguided.

 

[Zatzat]

Are the children turned away whose father has had a vasectomy or their mothers take birth control pills?

Nope, just the kids with Gay parents.

I guess the Catholic school isn’t too concerned that there aren’t many 10 children families amongst their population…

I just know people will say ’ the school couldn’t possibly know whose had a vasectomy or who takes birth control…

I call that willful blindness.

 

[Anna2552]

They should if they’re taking public money, money in which gays, muslims, christians and even atheists pay in to. Why should they be allowed to take public money then discriminate against the public?

Where is government funding Catholic schools? The only thing Catholic schools get from the government, in a few districts, is use of their bus system.

Never mind, this was already answered.

 

[Orleans_Attny]

Can you please explain these comments?

Sure. I think you made two comments that I find disturbingly naive and that cause me to question your leadership ability. They are:

. . . . Two lesbians “raising” a child is despicable institutionalised child abuse, worse than any one-off act of a pedophile. . . . crying out to Heaven for vengeance. In the long run the world will see that it was only the Catholic Church which had the courage to stand up against such evil acts.

First, I was involved in a case where a 6’5", 200+#, man entered the shower with his ten-year-old daughter, pushed her to the ground, pinned her there, and raped her until blood ran across the tub and down the drain. (I’ll spare you the really bad details.)

That you think a child raised, albeit imperfectly, by a loving gay couple that would (like most parents) endure almost any pain or death to protect the child is somehow “worse than any one-off act of a pedophile” is just - frankly - absurdly misguided.

I’ve spent most of my adult life in leadership positions. And I’d never select anyone for leadership responsibility if he or she showed (what I perceive to be) such gravely misguided judgment.

Second, (but far less important because it involves my interpretation of what you meant) I tend to think that people who call for God’s vengeance on the “evil act” of homosexulality are less likely to call for similar “vengeance” for fornication, masturbation, re-marriage after divorce, adultry, birth control . . . and other, more socially acceptable, sexual sins.

Don’t misunderstand me: My intention wasn’t to attack you, or to defend homosexuality.

I simply think that your pedophile belief is disturbingly disordered. And I couldn’t entrust the leadership (and protection) of others to someone who held your belief.

Pax,
OA

 

[Anna2552]

Are the children turned away whose father has had a vasectomy or their mothers take birth control pills?

Nope, just the kids with Gay parents.

I guess the Catholic school isn’t too concerned that there aren’t many 10 children families amongst their population…

I just know people will say ’ the school couldn’t possibly know whose had a vasectomy or who takes birth control…

I call that willful blindness.

If the mom had kept her gay life style quiet, she wouldn’t have had an issue. Now, if a mom shows up wearing her Ortho-Novum packets as earrings, or if dad starts showing off his vasectomy scar, they’re going to have issues as well.

 

[Zatzat]

If the mom had kept her gay life style quiet, she wouldn’t have had an issue. Now, if a mom shows up wearing her Ortho-Novum packets as earrings, or if dad starts showing off his vasectomy scar, they’re going to have issues as well.

Keep the sins hidden and the Catholic school won’t care…gotcha.

 

[eureka525]

i agree that this is a good opportunity for the child to learn teachings of the Church

but also, wouldn’t it be confusing to the child that the school teaches against the lifestyle of his or her parents? and this will become a source of conflict for the child, and either reject the school and Church, or the parents, or both. and what would happen then? the parents will then slap a lawsuit against the school for teaching something that the parents should already know that is part of Catholic doctrine

If the lawsuit thing weren’t an issue (which I realize these days is a bigger “if” than in the past), would you think this is a good opportunity for the child? Of course the teachings could be confusing for the child but the same could be said for children of parents who have been previously divorced outside of the Church, that would count as living in sin as well, right? I know they’ve allowed children in this situation into Catholic schools because I am one of them. I don’t feel any conflict with my parents over this, nor have I turned my back on the Church. On the contrary, the more I am learning (now as an adult), the more I’d like to be a part of Catholicism. Again, I realize being the child of parents who were both on their second marriage is not the same thing as being the ‘child’ of gay parents but both situations would be considered against Catholic values.

Perhaps the child deserves the opportunity to learn about the Church and its teachings. After all, one of the Church’s missions is to spread the Word to as many as it can. Of course there will be difficult conversations at home but those conversations would undoubtedly take place regardless of where the child is educated. Do you (not just you choy, I mean ‘you’ collectively) think the child would have a more difficult time in a Catholic school environment than in any other? Maybe he would, maybe he wouldn’t, but perhaps we should consider the potential positives that could come from bringing another child into the fold of the Church.

 

[Anna2552]

Life is weird, messy and obscene on occasion, deal with it properly.

The school has dealt with it perfectly.

 

[Zatzat]

There is no such thing as “the child of a lesbian couple”. Two lesbians “raising” a child is despicable institutionalised child abuse, worse than any one-off act of a pedophile. .

Your post trivializes and undermines the horror and crime of child sexual abuse.

 

[Anna2552]

Keep the sins hidden and the Catholic school won’t care…gotcha.

You can’t flaunt your sins and expect everybody to ignore it.

Which do you want, the Church to interrogate everybody about their private lives, or to accept us all as the sinners we are, provided we don’t shove each others noses in it?

 

[Zatzat]

The school has dealt with it perfectly.

Yep, they sure showed that 8 year old.