Mass. Catholic School Won't Admit Lesbians' Son

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Well, hunky dorey then. They won round one. Now let’s see how long it takes a gay couple to sue a Catholic school for emotional damage against their child when a religion teacher (or priest during weekly or daily Mass) states that marriage is between one man and one woman and homosexual activity is a sin. That’ll be round 2.

In Christ,

Ellen
That’s pretty cynical. I choose not to go through life thinking the worst of people.

I can think of a bunch of really, really good reasons why a parent would want their child to go to a Catholic school - even if the parent was of another religion, or agnostic, or gay (or all together!!!).

And I think my reasons are more likely than the conspiracy theories.

Pax,
OA
 
I think people have gotten confused…this matter is settled, the Boston Diocese has waded into the debate and clearly stated that children of gay parents may attend Catholic schools;

"The Boston archdiocese said it learned of St. Paul’s decision late Tuesday. In her statement, O’Neill said the archdiocese doesn’t bar children of same-sex parents from attending Catholic schools, and that it will develop a policy in the coming weeks to make that clear.
👍
👍 I suspected the church would do the right thing 😃
 
THE CATHOLIC CHURCH!!! (What institution have we been discussing this whole time???).

In Christ,

Ellen
also God, but these atheists have no faith in Him so they will not accept that as a valid answer.
 
👍 I suspected the church would do the right thing 😃
right thing according to who, a possibly misguided bishop, you, society. you must not do what mammon deems is right, but what God deems is right.
 
Sure. I think you made two comments that I find disturbingly naive and that cause me to question your leadership ability. They are:

First, I was involved in a case where a 6’5", 200+#, man entered the shower with his ten-year-old daughter, pushed her to the ground, pinned her there, and raped her until blood ran across the tub and down the drain. (I’ll spare you the really bad details.)

That you think a child raised, albeit imperfectly, by a loving gay couple that would (like most parents) endure almost any pain or death to protect the child is somehow “worse than any one-off act of a pedophile” is just - frankly - absurdly misguided.
OK, to clarify for you, obviously I was referring to a simple one-off act of pedophilia such as we are hearing about so often in the media, not to aggravations such as rape or violence.
I’ve spent most of my adult life in leadership positions. And I’d never select anyone for leadership responsibility if he or she showed (what I perceive to be) such gravely misguided judgment.
Well that makes it mutual because I’ve also spent most of my adult life in leadership positions, and I perceive your comment to show gravely misguided judgment. But I’m not so shallow or unfair that I would black-ball you from promotion just because of one misguided comment orcondemn you as '“isturbingly disordered”.
Second, (but far less important because it involves my interpretation of what you meant) I tend to think that people who call for God’s vengeance on the “evil act” of homosexulality are less likely to call for similar “vengeance” for fornication, masturbation, re-marriage after divorce, adultry, birth control . . . and other, more socially acceptable, sexual sins.
The Bible says, and the Church has always confirmed and attested them as such, that wilful murder, sodomy, oppression of the poor and depriving workers of their wages, are the four sins which cry to Heaven for vengeance. If you have a problem with that, take it up with its Author.

And in Australia, and I presume in America, adultery is definitely less socially acceptable than homosexuality.
 
right thing according to who, a possibly misguided bishop, you, society. you must not do what mammon deems is right, but what God deems is right.
Yes to all 3 😉 Who better to determine that than a bishop? Maybe if the Pope weighed in you would agree if he did right?
 
That’s pretty cynical. I choose not to go through life thinking the worst of people.

I can think of a bunch of really, really good reasons why a parent would want their child to go to a Catholic school - even if the parent was of another religion, or agnostic, or gay (or all together!!!).

And I think my reasons are more likely than the conspiracy theories.

Pax,
OA
I don’t get it, if I was completely opposed to a fundamental church teaching, no way would I subject my child to it (I used to feel that way about the Catholic Church altogether when I was lasped, and swore my kids wouldn’t be getting “brainwashed”. Yeah, God’s laughing at me now :D). Like several posters have mentioned: there are other, more liberal, Christian schools (Episcopalian comes to mind, but there are others). I wouldn’t send my child to a fundamentalist school (there are several in my area), even if the academics were superior, knowing they would more likely than not be taught anti-Catholic dogmas. It’s the same thing, IMO. I’m just really not buying their reasons for wanting the kid to go to Catholic school. I do think it’s a political ploy. Call me parnaoid if you want, but that’s how I feel. 🤷

In Christ,

Ellen
 
Yes to all 3 😉 Who better to determine that than a bishop? Maybe if the Pope weighed in you would agree if he did right?
Papa Bennie? Ha! Hell would freeze over first!

In Christ,

Ellen
 
OK, to clarify for you, obviously I was referring to a simple one-off act of pedophilia such as we are hearing about so often in the media, not to aggravations such as rape or violence.
Well that makes it mutual because I’ve also spent most of my adult life in leadership positions, and I perceive your comment to show gravely misguided judgment. But I’m not so shallow or unfair that I would black-ball you from promotion just because of one misguided comment orcondemn you as '“isturbingly disordered”.
The Bible says, and the Church has always confirmed and attested them as such, that wilful murder, sodomy, oppression of the poor and depriving workers of their wages, are the four sins which cry to Heaven for vengeance. If you have a problem with that, take it up with its Author.

And in Australia, and I presume in America, adultery is definitely less socially acceptable than homosexuality.
I think what set me off to the right was my understanding (after working on child-sexual-assault cases) of Pedophillia:
(in psychiatry) a psychosexual disorder in which the fantasy or act of engaging in sexual activity with prepubertal children is the preferred or exclusive means of achieving sexual excitement and gratification. It may be heterosexual or homosexual. (Mosby’s Medical Dictionary, 8th edition. © 2009, Elsevier.)
So when I hear “pedophile,” I relate that term to a sexual predator who targets pre-pubescent children almost exclusively. Clinically, that person is deemed incurrable.

So if I had to make a choice as to whether to entrust to leadership someone who brushes pedophillia aside, I don’t believe I would.

I’m not sure you were really talking about pedophillia.

And so I apologize, and explain my comments.

I actually think adultry is much more accepted than homosexuality - especially if you count fornication. But even if you don’t count fornication, I have a difficult time thinking we’ll ever discuss here an article about a Catholic church that turned away a child because his father had an affiar with his secretary, divorced the child’s mother, and remarried the tart.

So yeah. It’s more acceptable.

Pax,
OA
 
This child is being used by his mothers. Surely they know the Church teaches against gay marriage so I wonder why they would try to have the child enrolled in a Catholic school. The child will have enough problems without having to deal with the immorality of his mothers lifestyle in school. The Catholic school is right. They should not be in the position of putting the boy between his school teachings and his parents’ teachings.
One, at most, of these two women, is his mother or his parent. The other can never possibly be his mother or his parent.
 
Good job on stating the obvious 😉 Also, when you say “thats what you mean” you for got the apostrophe in “that’s”, clearing meaning ‘that is’. Additionally, you need to work on your capitalization and punctuation for your, what should be, sentences above. :cool: 😛

Is that what crusades and inquisitions were all about? How exactly did Christianity “win”? Oh right, at the edge of a sword. Kill and torture that which went against the teachings of Christ and the bible. But, maybe i’m wrong and there was a legitimate reason for Christianity coming into power not through years of bloodshed.

I know. Only recently have we begun pulling ourselves out of the dark ages 😛 (the smiley means i’m being facetious)

Assuming being LBGT is morally wrong, which is isn’t, even by Catholic standards. Being homosexual and acting on those urges are two separate things. If these women wish to live together and raise a child while being chaste is that a sin?

Short and sweet, homophobia is only going to look bad on the church like it does on the military.
I doubt that they are chase and living together. If that was the case they would have stated that fact to the school authorities.

As to your quote about the church’s stand (homophobia) you are not correct. They have no problem with people having these sexual urges, it is acting on it that is sinful. And yes, they do not approve of same sex relationships or same sex marriages.

The Church will always be hated for taking this moral view and not changing it according to how other people think. They don’t care if this is popular or not, and for this cradle Catholic I am proud of this.
 
if I had to make a choice as to whether to entrust to leadership someone who brushes pedophillia aside, I don’t believe I would.
Saying that one sin is objectively worse than another is not brushing the latter sin aside. Both are despicable grave sins. All other things being equal, obviously a lifetime pattern odf sin is worse than a one-off. Of course I know pediophilic tendencies are now thought to be usually incurable, but by “one-off” i obviously meant from the pooint of view of the effect on the victim who may be abused only once by a lifelong pedophile who preys on others; compared to the devastating effect of a child living his whole lifetime until adulthood in a household founded upon a sin crying to Heaven for vengeance.
I actually think adultry is much more accepted than homosexuality - especially if you count fornication. But even if you don’t count fornication, I have a difficult time thinking we’ll ever discuss here an article about a Catholic church that turned away a child because his father had an affiar with his secretary, divorced the child’s mother, and remarried the tart.
So yeah. It’s more acceptable.
You said “socially acceptable”, not “acceptable to the Catholic Church”. Look at the public outcry in society over the adultery of people like Tiger Woods. There would never be such an outcry over anyone’s homosexuality. In fact, if it is revealed that a married man has a series of homosexual “partners”, he is praised, not condemned by Western society, for having the supposed “courage” to “come out” and “face up to his true sexual identity” (even if he’s been heterosexual for 50 years and just recently “discovered that he’s gay”).
 
I doubt that they are chase and living together. If that was the case they would have stated that fact to the school authorities.
You’re probably right, but why not give them the benefit of the doubt? I haven’t seen or heard otherwise, have you?
As to your quote about the church’s stand (homophobia) you are not correct. They have no problem with people having these sexual urges, it is acting on it that is sinful. And yes, they do not approve of same sex relationships or same sex marriages.
We’re mostly saying the same thing. In fact, i’ve been saying that exact same thing. Define relationship for me. What acts are acceptable, such as in a friendship, distinguishable from a “relationship”?
The Church will always be hated for taking this moral view and not changing it according to how other people think. They don’t care if this is popular or not, and for this cradle Catholic I am proud of this.
That’s fine, but I think it’s still shameful to discriminate against a group of people for no good reason. Like I stated earlier, if you follow the bible literally then gays should be killed, which has been the case and might be in places in the middle east (I haven’t researched Islamic law in a while). Yet, this is not the case in modern progressive society. Why?
 
I skipped pages 2-7 of this thread, so I’m sorry if this repeats anything.

I’m sincerely torn by this. First, I must say that I cannot fathom what’s going through the lesbians’ heads. Their child would be taught not just that her parents are committing a sin, but that everything about the way they approach sex and marriage is totally false and sinful. It would be difficult and confusing for everyone, especially the child herself. Teacher would say something about mommies and daddies, and little daughter would raise her hand and ask “What about people who have two mommies?”, and teacher would be obligated to say something to the effect of, “No one can have two mommies; your parents aren’t telling you the truth of Christ.”

This sort of thing would be happening all the time, and would be far more obvious and serious and damaging than the common case of divorcees’ children in Catholic classrooms. At least in the case of divorced people, everyone can agree that divorce is non-normative and a Bad Thing. Here, the very nature of the parents’s relationship – the child’s whole family! – would be held up, ineveitably, very painfully, as an example of total depravity.

So I must conclude that the couple involved is either uncommonly dim or uncommonly cruel.

All that being said… do we not have an obligation to educate and to evangelize, most especially to the innocent children trapped in toxic situations like this one? “Let the children come unto me” and all that jazz? Is it fair to the child to turn her away because of her parents’ sins? Certainly, we are protecting the child in the short-run from the emotional pain her parents to which her parents so callously decided to subject her. But are we really protecting the child in the long run?

And, if we do have the obligation to turn away children based on their parents’ refusal to live in the light of the Truth of the Church, then why don’t we turn away the children of divorcees? What they go through in Catholic school is certainly much less problematic, but nevertheless must be the source of great cognitive dissonance.
 
Saying that one sin is objectively worse than another is not brushing the latter sin aside. Both are despicable grave sins. All other things being equal, obviously a lifetime pattern odf sin is worse than a one-off. Of course I know pediophilic tendencies are now thought to be usually incurable, but by “one-off” i obviously meant from the pooint of view of the effect on the victim who may be abused only once by a lifelong pedophile who preys on others; compared to the devastating effect of a child living his whole lifetime until adulthood in a household founded upon a sin crying to Heaven for vengeance.
.
How can you possibly think that the child who is sexually abused is better off than a child who has never been abused? You have no idea of what happens to a child who is sexually (or otherwise) abused even once. That stays with the child for. the. rest. of. his. life. Even once. One touch is all it takes to mess up a child for life.

The child that is not sexually abused, but living in a loving home with whoever for “parent” may have his issues when he reaches adulthood, but those issues won’t be anywhere the same as issues of a child that has been sexually abused.

I would think that anyone who so blithely compares being sexually abused and living in with a homosexual couple and the sexual abuse comes out on top, is someone that is not a statistic (1in4 children). You should thank God for that.
 
You’re probably right, but why not give them the benefit of the doubt? I haven’t seen or heard otherwise, have you?
There seems no doubt in this case. I have seen no suggestion outside of this thread that the 2 lesbians may be chaste. Of course we must always put the most charitable possible stance on our brothers’ words, but if two women proclaim themselves as “a lesbian couple” and even claim to be “married” to each other, ther’s no reasonable doubt.
That’s fine, but I think it’s still shameful to discriminate against a group of people for no good reason.
That’s exactly what the Church says. And in this case there are very good reasons.
Like I stated earlier, if you follow the bible literally then gays should be killed, which has been the case and might be in places in the middle east (I haven’t researched Islamic law in a while). Yet, this is not the case in modern progressive society. Why?
Like I told you earlier, study Catholicism 101. The Catholic Church produced the Bible, but she is not a “bible-based church”. Christ gave St Peter the authority to free Catholics from the Levirate laws, and he used it.
 
I skipped pages 2-7 of this thread, so I’m sorry if this repeats anything.

I’m sincerely torn by this. First, I must say that I cannot fathom what’s going through the lesbians’ heads. Their child would be taught not just that her parents are committing a sin, but that everything about the way they approach sex and marriage is totally false and sinful. It would be difficult and confusing for everyone, especially the child herself. Teacher would say something about mommies and daddies, and little daughter would raise her hand and ask “What about people who have two mommies?”, and teacher would be obligated to say something to the effect of, “No one can have two mommies; your parents aren’t telling you the truth of Christ.”

This sort of thing would be happening all the time, and would be far more obvious and serious and damaging than the common case of divorcees’ children in Catholic classrooms. At least in the case of divorced people, everyone can agree that divorce is non-normative and a Bad Thing. Here, the very nature of the parents’s relationship – the child’s whole family! – would be held up, ineveitably, very painfully, as an example of total depravity.

So I must conclude that the couple involved is either uncommonly dim or uncommonly cruel.

All that being said… do we not have an obligation to educate and to evangelize, most especially to the innocent children trapped in toxic situations like this one? “Let the children come unto me” and all that jazz? Is it fair to the child to turn her away because of her parents’ sins? Certainly, we are protecting the child in the short-run from the emotional pain her parents to which her parents so callously decided to subject her. But are we really protecting the child in the long run?
👍 very well said.
And, if we do have the obligation to turn away children based on their parents’ refusal to live in the light of the Truth of the Church, then why don’t we turn away the children of divorcees? What they go through in Catholic school is certainly much less problematic, but nevertheless must be the source of great cognitive dissonance.
I agree. Parents are the primary educators of their child in the truths of the faith as in every other way. Catholic schools are meant to HELP the parents in that task. Schools should be asking much tougher questions about why parents bother sending their kids to a Catholic school when the parents don’t even bother to go to Mass on Sundays or take their children to Mass or teach them their prayers and devotions and pray with them; and in some cases teach their children things, or live lifestyles, directly contrary to Catholic doctrine.
 
How can you possibly think that the child who is sexually abused is better off than a child who has never been abused? You have no idea of what happens to a child who is sexually (or otherwise) abused even once. That stays with the child for. the. rest. of. his. life. Even once. One touch is all it takes to mess up a child for life.

The child that is not sexually abused, but living in a loving home with whoever for “parent” may have his issues when he reaches adulthood, but those issues won’t be anywhere the same as issues of a child that has been sexually abused.

I would think that anyone who so blithely compares being sexually abused and living in with a homosexual couple and the sexual abuse comes out on top, is someone that is not a statistic (1in4 children). You should thank God for that.
How can you possibly think that the child who is brought up in a household based on sodomy is not being greavely abused? His “issues” as you euphemistically describe them do not start only in adulthood! And he is truly messed up for life.
There was nothing “blithe” about my comment. And in refutaion of your assertion, yes I do have an idea and yes I have been sexually abused. (And before you ask, it was by a non-Catholic layman.)
 
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