Mass every Sunday?

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I have a teacher who has been bashing the Catholic Church. He is a world history teacher so he does know the history of the church. He says that the reason the Church makes us go to mass every Sunday is because they want to make people have to use the church for salvation because he believes in salvation through faith alone. I strongly disagree, but don’t know exactly how to respond to his bashing, and I told him I would find the answers to his questions and comments by Monday. He is a very strong Lutheran who pretends to like the Catholic Church and then he turns around really fast to bash it. I would like to know if there is any biblical evidence of needing the Church for salvation. Anything more than Tradition because him being a protestant he will not except this. He told me to look through “a Protastant’s Eyes”. Any help would be much appreciated.
 
Wait. It’s not a sin if Protestant’s skip church on Sunday?? That’s so weird. What about keeping Holy the Sabbath and all that. That’s news to me. Sorry if I have nothing to help with. Here are some Scripture verses that refute “faith alone” (the last one is the best:D .)

“‘Not everyone who says to me, “Lord, Lord,” shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven’” (Matt. 7:21).

“‘Why do you call me “Lord, Lord,” and not do what I tell you?’” (Luke 6:46).

“For he will render every man according to his works . . .” (Rom. 2:6-8).

“For it is not the hearers of the law who are righteous before God, but the doers of the law who will be justified” (Rom. 2:13).

"For if we sin deliberately after receiving the knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains a sacrifice for sins, but a fearful prospect of judgments . . . (Heb. 10:26-27).

“What does it profit, my brethren, if a man says he has faith but has not works? Can his faith save him?” (Jas. 2:14).

“So faith by itself, if it has no works, is dead” (Jas. 2:17).

"But some one will say, ‘You have faith and I have works.’ Show me your faith apart from your works, and I by my works will show you my faith. . . .Do you want to be shown, you foolish fellow, that faith apart from works is barren? (Jas. 2:18-20).

“You see that a man is justified by works and not by faith alone” (Jas. 2:24).
 
It’s not a sin for Protestants to skip Sunday worship as far as I know. I know some of them who do it and are not the least bothered by it. We Catholics do take our Mass more seriously; we miss it, and we know we have to amend for it. To that end I see more reason why the Catholic faith is more true to the Bible than Protestantism ever would.
 
Wouldn’t a faithful Lutheran attend church services each and every Sunday, unless prevented by some significant impediment? Does this guy think it’s OK for a Lutheran to skip services because there’s a good football game on? Or because the grass needs to be cut? Are these things more important than worshiping our Lord with our Christian community (the Body of Christ) for an hour a week?

I could see him objecting if he were an atheist. But a Lutheran objecting to regular church attendance??? That’s really strange!

I might add to Genesis315’s list the parable about the sheep and the goats, who were separated and judged based on their works (when I was hungry, you did not feed me, and when I was thirsty, you did not give me drink, etc).
 
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Catholicgolfer:
He told me to look through “a Protastant’s Eyes”.
hmmm…? I wonder why…? Would you see it differently if he said “See it my way”?
 
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Catholicgolfer:
He is a very strong Lutheran who pretends to like the Catholic Church and then he turns around really fast to bash it…
It sounds like he’s contradicting himself. Person like that doesn’t get anywhere. He would end up where he started.
www.scripturecatholic.com/
 
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Catholicgolfer:
I have a teacher who has been bashing the Catholic Church. He is a world history teacher so he does know the history of the church.
First of all, if it is a public institution, what he is doing is called harassment. It is illegal and should be stopped. “world history” sounds like high school, is it? If it’s a public school you need to complain and perhaps bring him up on a charge of harassment.
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Catholicgolfer:
He says that the reason the Church makes us go to mass every Sunday is because they want to make people have to use the church for salvation because he believes in salvation through faith alone.
Again, what does this have to do with world history? BTW, Scripturally speaking, the Eucharist was celebrated daily, not weekly, as it still is in the Catholic Church.
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Catholicgolfer:
I strongly disagree, but don’t know exactly how to respond to his bashing, and I told him I would find the answers to his questions and comments by Monday.
He’s way out of line. You should not have to defend your faith in a school, unless it’s a theology class.
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Catholicgolfer:
He is a very strong Lutheran who pretends to like the Catholic Church and then he turns around really fast to bash it. I would like to know if there is any biblical evidence of needing the Church for salvation.
Absolutely, but you shouldn’t be debating this in class.
 
Who needs to follow all ten of the commandments any ways? That’s like so old testament.
:rolleyes:
 
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Tom:
First of all, if it is a public institution, what he is doing is called harassment. It is illegal and should be stopped. “world history” sounds like high school, is it? If it’s a public school you need to complain and perhaps bring him up on a charge of harassment.
Oh, lighten up, PULLEEZZEEE. How did we become a society that sees criminal acts every time someone expresses a difference of opinion?

According to Golfer’s profile, he’ll be 17 in June (making him an upperclassman - probably a Junior) and - heh, heh - he ENJOYS this sort of debate (and maybe drew the teacher into it). Good for him! He sounds like a bright young man. And good for the teacher for not being all PC and saying, “oh, well, we can’t talk about religion because that’s taboo.”

This teacher is doing Golfer a favor by helping him hone his critical thinking skills. This will serve him well in college, where MANY professors are anti-Catholic and there are no rules about what they can say!

The teacher should get a medal, not a reprimand (I’m not saying that teachers can bash any student’s religion, but in Golfer’s case it seems he relish such debate - and good for the teacher for accomodating him).

BTW, Golfer, just because he’s a world history teacher doesn’t mean he really knows much about the history of the Church. History is a massive subject - no one can hope to master any more than a tiny fraction of it. If the teacher didn’t make a concerted effort to study Church history then he probably doesn’t know much more than might be contained in your textbook (which is probably wrong anyway).
 
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DavidFilmer:
Oh, lighten up, PULLEEZZEEE. How did we become a society that sees criminal acts every time someone expresses a difference of opinion?
Excuse me, but bashing a religion is not a “difference of opinion”, It is a “criminal act”. If it’s a high school teacher he has absolutely no right to impose his beliefs on his students. There’s a time and place for everything. A public school, if that is what it is, is NOT the time nor the place to “bash” ANY religion.
 
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Catholicgolfer:
I have a teacher who has been bashing the Catholic Church. He is a world history teacher so he does know the history of the church. He says that the reason the Church makes us go to mass every Sunday is because they want to make people have to use the church for salvation because he believes in salvation through faith alone. I strongly disagree, but don’t know exactly how to respond to his bashing, and I told him I would find the answers to his questions and comments by Monday. He is a very strong Lutheran who pretends to like the Catholic Church and then he turns around really fast to bash it. I would like to know if there is any biblical evidence of needing the Church for salvation. Anything more than Tradition because him being a protestant he will not except this. He told me to look through “a Protastant’s Eyes”. Any help would be much appreciated.
“The Church is the pillar and ground of Truth” 1Tim.3
 
Hey Golfer,
Here is my “I will make you shut up in two lines” answer for that particular arguement:

OK if you are saved does this mean that you want to live a Christ-like life? Because if you are saved by your faith in Christ, then you want to be like him right? When he says yes, then you say: Well Christ didn’t just sit around with alot of faith, I mean he did works right(add in examples as needed)? So if you are saved then you would act like Christ and do works because that is what he would do, not for salvation but because of your salvation you would want to.

I have used this many times…the recipient of my arguement usually just sits there with their mouth hanging open.
 
Wow, I didn’t expect to get help so fast. Genesis315 thank you for the bible passages that refute “faith alone” you also gave me some in another about scripture and tradition for him in another thread and that is going to help a lot also.
It isn’t a sin for a Lutharan to miss a service because they believe in “faith alone” and that you don’t need the Church for salvation. When I say that he is a strong Lutharan I mean that he is strong in his beliefs. He doesn’t go to “church” very often at all.
Tom I know that what he is doing is illegal, but he has doing it for so long (my older brothers had to go through him also) that whenever it is brought up people just look the other way. My mom did call some people on the board of education tonight because today was the worst of them all. Parents have been going to talk to him for years, and everytime they do he just gets worse.
We are just getting into the Protestant Reformation, and Lutharism and all that stuff. The stuff that is brought up are his opinions so I say something to defend the Church and then he says something else so we get off topic quite a bit and today we weren’t even able to finish the chapter because we were arguing so much.
He believes that the Church made missing mass a sin so that it
has control of peoples salvation. (they miss mass, they can’t receive communion without going to confession so the Church has control of the salvation of people.) He believe in faith alone so that is why he says this.
No David I didn’t draw him into religion even though I do enjoy it because well, what student wouldn’t enjoy proving their teacher wrong? The reason that this is so bad is that I am one of the few high schoolers that actually care about knowing their faith. There are 8 Catholics in my class and only a friend of mine and I stand up to him. In the other classes there are only about 2 and they often don’t know how to respond so I usually try to warn them during the day what he talks about and give them some way to respond. (I have him first hour)
I am a 15 year old sophmore at a public high school. I am also a girl btw. You do need to realize that I live in a small town in Kansas without very many good teachers. When one has been there as long as he has the administrators look the other way. It is a sad case, but we are trying to take care of it.
I do enjoy a good debate about religion because I know that the Catholic Church is the one, true church set up by Christ. I also have many protastant friends who don’t know anything about their religion so I enlighten them by showing them where they are wrong, which is basically pointless because they don’t know enough to know that they don’t know anything.
If you have any more to add or anymore questions feel free to ask. I’m sorry I wasn’t on earlier, but I was looking things up in the bible for about 2 1/2 hours about sacraments for his class.
 
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Tom:
First of all, if it is a public institution, what he is doing is called harassment. It is illegal and should be stopped. “world history” sounds like high school, is it? If it’s a public school you need to complain and perhaps bring him up on a charge of harassment.

He’s way out of line. You should not have to defend your faith in a school, unless it’s a theology class.

Absolutely, but you shouldn’t be debating this in class.
Yeah, seriously lighten up. Plus, who says you shouldn’t defend your faith at school? I would (do, actually) in a hot second. You should defend it everywhere you go in my opinion. And why no debates in class? Is thinking, abstract thought, and opinion no longer valued these days.

Now, I would agree that it is tasteless for him to do the faith-bashing thing. However, we can’t just run away because it is in school. Heck, I have had history teachers unload their opinions on me, and if I don’t like it or don’t agree, I’ll justify why or why not.

If he insists upon telling you what he feels, then I hate to say it but silent suffering may be key. It all depends on the kind of fight you are willing to put up. If you are anything like me, you will keep coming back like a pitbull until you win or your teacher at least has enough respect to back off. However, I don’t mind controversy, you have to decide what you are willing to do.

Eamon
 
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Catholicgolfer:
No David I didn’t draw him into religion even though I do enjoy it because well, what student wouldn’t enjoy proving their teacher wrong?
Always remember, though, in apologetics, the goal is to win souls, not arguments.

Sorry I called you a “guy.” I guess I have a stereotype of golfing as a male-dominated activity, and made this assumption. My bad!

In reading your further descriptions, I agree that the teacher’s conduct is way out of line (though not “illegal” - there is no LAW against bashing religion, even for a public school teacher - nobody has ever gone to jail for this. But it is (or should be) against the RULES, and the teacher could be (and maybe should be) fired.

But I digress. Golfer, you have many friends here. I am glad that you are willing to defend the Faith. You may be somewhat new to this “game.” Like golf, apologetics requires FOCUS. You gotta keep your head down and your eye on the ball. Protestant arguments are classically non-focused - they want to jump around from objection to objection, without ever really finishing any particular discussion (because the weakness of each position begins to become evident - so they change the subject). It’s like wanting to play the second hole when your first ball is caught in a sand trap.

You may want to try this - I have found it to be successful. Ask the teacher (preferably outside of class time) what the is the NUMBER ONE objection he has to the Church. Offer to research this NUMBER ONE objection and discuss it. After all, if you can refute his NUMBER ONE objection, it logically calls his lesser objections into question, right?

But don’t let him be too vague. If he says, “I don’t like the Catholic doctrines about Mary,” ask him exactly what aspect of Marian theology he MAINLY objects to. He might object to both the doctrine of the Assumption and the Immaculate Conception, but insist that he prioritize one or the other. “Mary” is far too broad a topic to be a NUMBER ONE objection.

This keeps it focused. Don’t let him change the subject - hold him to his own NUMBER ONE objection. Come to this forum for (name removed by moderator)ut, if you like (we will be GLAD to help in any way we can).

You have the advantage, because your position is that of TRUTH. Absolute TRUTH. Whatever this guy’s NUMBER ONE objection is FALSE.

The “game” is on… may the wind be at your back!
 
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turboEDvo:
Yeah, seriously lighten up. Plus, who says you shouldn’t defend your faith at school? I would (do, actually) in a hot second. You should defend it everywhere you go in my opinion. And why no debates in class? Is thinking, abstract thought, and opinion no longer valued these days.
I agree.

While it is true that she shouldn’t have to defend her faith, look at it as an opportunity to do so in a public school.

This teacher, by bringing up the subject, is doing you the greatest favor possible in this regard; giving you a perfect excuse to shine in your faith. Remain calm and kind, but respectfully provide your own point of view.

In a day and age where schools can get sued over allowing students to say silent prayers for 10 seconds, this teacher is taking a risk. Technically he should not allow this sort of debate in a history class, especially if he is promoting a particular point of view.

Let’s look at challenges to our faith as opening a door to allow us to show how happy we, as Christians, are. Don’t sweat the fact that he believes differently; that’s not you’re problem. (As Jesus told His people, do not pull up the weeds lest you pull up the good plants; let them grow together until the harvest.) Rejoice in the fact that he has allowed you to share your faith in a public school. This allows you to give testimony to your whole class at once, rather than having to sneak around and talk to them one at a time.

Again, this teacher has cleared the way for you to share faith among children who would never listen to you if you approached them outside of school. In a way, he has created a captive audience for your testimony. Take advantage of it in every way you can. If you get upset over it, then it will promote the often-too-frequently-true stereotype of Christians being indignant, intolerant, and lacking in peace and for that matter, a sense of humor.

When life serves you lemons, make lemonade.

The attitude of being truly fascinated by other points of view, while ready to explain my own, has gotten me much much farther than trying to coerce everyone to either agree with me or shut up. Nobody taught me this when I was young, though; I had to have a psychotic breakdown trying to get other people to understand simple truths before I realized that was God’s job I was trying to do. Finally when I quit blaming everybody else, I realized that Christ gave us peace the world cannot take away (see Romans 8).

Like Fox News, you witness; they decide. If God calls them they will come, on His time. If not, no amount of apologetics will change them.

A karate expert supposedly hopes not to ever have to use his/her art “for real,” but I suspect most wish that at least once, just once, they will get to exercise it. Without an opponent, that wish will never come true. Your teacher is the greatest blessing possible, in giving you this platform to voice your ideas.

Just imagine; if your teacher was actually saying things that were in line with the Church, then he certainly would have been fired by now and you would not have had this opportunity to give witness.

Christ came to give us peace to weather the storms, not to calm the storms. Remember how he scolded the apostles for their lack of faith even after he calmed the storm? What did they think would happen? He was going to let them die just because He wanted a bit of shut-eye?

Alan
 
Ask your teacher who gave Luther the authority to change Scripture?
Not pleased with St. Paul’s doctrine, " we are justified by faith," Luther added the word “ALONE” to make the sentence read: " We are justified by faith alone"
 
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Catholicgolfer:
I have a teacher who has been bashing the Catholic Church. He is a world history teacher so he does know the history of the church. He says that the reason the Church makes us go to mass every Sunday is because they want to make people have to use the church for salvation because he believes in salvation through faith alone. I strongly disagree, but don’t know exactly how to respond to his bashing, and I told him I would find the answers to his questions and comments by Monday. He is a very strong Lutheran who pretends to like the Catholic Church and then he turns around really fast to bash it. I would like to know if there is any biblical evidence of needing the Church for salvation. Anything more than Tradition because him being a protestant he will not except this. He told me to look through “a Protastant’s Eyes”. Any help would be much appreciated.
Ask your teacher if the Luthern church believes in “sola scriptura?” If he says yes, ask if this is because the Luthern church wants Lutherns to believe salvation is through the " Bible alone"? Then introduce him to 1Timothy 3:15, which some one in this post has already posted.
 
Thank you for all the information and it will all help me quite a bit in class Monday, but when and why did the Church make missing mass a mortal sin? I have always just accepted this practice, but this won’t be enough to convince him.
 
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