Mass for Sacrament, Elsewhere for Fellowship

[horselvr]

Wow! I can’t believe some of the judgmental stuff I’m reading on this thread.

While I am cordial to everyone at Mass—I general see a lot of folks at morning Mass too, I am one to go straight home after Mass.

I would feel just awful to think that those that I attend Mass with several times/week spoke about me as I have read from some of you here just because I don’t feel the need to coffee clutch after Mass. How disheartening to read a remark such as this :

"However, the issue here is that for all too many Catholics, that “fellowship” ends with the last blessing. Heck, for some of them, it ends with Communion. It certainly doesn’t extend as far as the parking lot."

Yikes! You can’t really believe that at least I hope not.

This statement that you have made really saddens me:

"HARDENING: I also think a lot of Catholics have been hardened over the past few decades over all the garbage that has taken place in the Church. Given the choice they want to leave right after Mass (or communion.) It’s all about getting their tickets validated."

A lot of Catholics hardened over all the garbage that has taken place in the church??? Getting their tickets validated???

What garbage are you referring to ??? And validating their tickets??? A lot of Catholics???

I apologize if I don’t feel the need to hang out and have a donut and a cup of coffee after Mass and while you would hold that against me I know Christ would not.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

I should add this. 12 years ago I started a Monday night Bible study. I asked the pastor at the time and he was highly supportive – I was flabbergasted. I really was. We had a set time, a set place, he offered to pay for our books (we declined), offered to pay for our refreshments (again declined.) It was wonderful for the first two years.

Then the pastor left and we were pastorless for about two years. Routinely our room assignment would be changed at the last moment. That’s a big deal because then people couldn’t find us on campus. More often than not the room we had been assigned would remain vacant. That bothered people a lot. When there was someone actually it in, it would often be two people displacing our group of 12-20.

While the group remained strong, itt went down hill from there at my parish. We finally pulled the plug at the end of year 5 – we were ready for a break anyways.

So the problem seems not to be the pastor (or at least that pastor) but larger issues in your diocese. It appears that during the time you didn’t have a pastor, administrative duties were haphazard. Which is a common problem in organizations without leadership. Do you have a pastor now? Or a parish administrator? Is a priest assigned to your parish or do you have a rotation of shared priests? All these things affect the community of a parish. While it is the lay people who should be running programs like a coffe hour, etc. As you saw, that can be difficult to do without some oversight.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

More often than not, when I go to a Protestant church, someone is there to introduce themselves to newcomers, the pastor makes an effort to greet me personally before or after the service, everybody is invited to stay for coffee and snacks, they pass around an e-mail signup list, and by the time I leave I’ve met 10 or 15 new people and they’ve invited me to participate in church meetings, the opening of a bookstore, a welcome party for a family of refugees, etc. If I call the church to set up an appointment with the pastor, usually they say I can just drop in that day. More often than not, when I go to a Catholic church I haven’t been to before, nobody speaks to me, the priest gives no indication that he sees me or knows who I am, and afterwords everybody leaves without a word. If I call the parish to schedule a meeting with the priest, they’re friendly enough, but they usually schedule it for two or three weeks in the future.

I** move relatively frequently and you can imagine when I arrive in my new neighborhood whether I make a point to visit the Catholic churches or the Protestant churches first.** I know many Catholic parishes have vibrant social communities once you make an effort to get involved, but there always is an undercurrent (particularly strong on this forum) of disdain for people who seek fellowship, almost as if one who lives a truly Christian life need never so much as acknowledge his neighbors’ existence. Just witness how upset people get over something as innocuous as the sign of the peace. The mass is necessary, but any healthy church should strive to be much more than a place where a bunch of isolated people go once a week to hear the mass.

Not infrequently we get questions on here from people who have been attending a particular parish for months or even years, and they want to know how they can prove they’re Catholics in good standing to be godparents or something similar because they don’t know many people at church and the pastor has no idea who they are. Even if you’re an introvert who never wants to talk to anyone else, the idea that the church could be so oblivious of your presence is insane, and it would be absolutely unthinkable at any Protestant church I’ve ever been to.

If you are Catholic, you should always be looking for a parish and not a protestant church to attend. Fellowship or not, your Sunday obligation and need to attend Mass does not change.

One other issue we have to remember is that most large protestant churches have large staffs also. There are paid people on the staff in charge of fellowship and outreach. Volunteers may run the programs, but a paid person is overseeing it.

In Catholic churches on the other hand, we often expect that pastor/priest to be in charge of everything and are offended if we are refered to a lay person for anything. We also don’t contribute to the extent many protestants do and so there aren’t the funds to have a paid staff person organizing outreach.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

I want to mention something else. Years ago I had a friend who was also a Byzantine Catholic priest, God rest his soul. He told me “This isn’t the liturgy (pointing upstairs), but it’s very important too” as he was getting ready to bless the food before the weekly coffee social after Divine Liturgy.

His replacement is quite a bit different. I don’t get to that parish much these days but I was there last week. He made a big deal of mentioning that the scope of the coffee socials would be reduced (no meals – coffee, donuts and a bowl of fruit only) if people didn’t start cleaning up better. 25 years and now it’s a problem? He’s certainly not cleaning up. Those ethnic meals/potlucks are a beloved part of the parish. The people work hard and love it! I could feel the color drain from my face.

I would bet dollars to donuts that the coffee socials are reduced within a month once and for all…

Why should the priest clean up? You say you haven’t been there much recently, so you don’t know the extent of the problem. If the people want to have pot lucks and are willing to organize them, which includes cleaning up, than I’m sure they could continue.

Perhaps you are being called to return to that parish and head up the clean-up committee.

 

[maltmom]

After reading and posting in this thread last night I went to bed and wanted to finish reading Rome Sweet Home by Scott and Kimberly Hahn. I flipped the page to a new chapter…Catholic Family Life. He started the chapter talking about how converts can enter a culture shock when coming home. He went on to say that converts “feel that they have come home by becoming Catholics, they do not always feel at home in their new parish families.” He stated that he and Kimberly had experienced this. That was a surprise.

I’m not looking for coffee and donuts. I don’t look down on other’s who leave immediately after Mass. For all I know they may have to go to work, are taking care of someone who is ill.

 

[gh4]

I am not talking coffee and donuts here. I am one who really doesn’t enjoy “coffee, conversation and donuts” after church. BUT I would like to be able to go to a bible study, or a women’s group or something. You will not find those in our church, and if you want to have a group of people who study the bible, or have any kind of Christian gathering, you have to go to a protestant church. The nearest Catholic church outside of our small one is 40 miles away.
I tried to start a rosary making group at church, started off great, about 9 women there, ended about 3 months later when only 2 of us showed up and then just me the next month. No point in lugging that stuff to church if it’s only me, I can do it at home a lot easier.
I tried to get involved with the festival committee. And was amazed that it ever gets done, it’s so disorganized and no one knows what anyone else is doing and no one is willing to help anyone else and pass down knowledge and experience. It was a really painful experience. I tried to get a group of women to quilt once a month, and that never happened, the women don’t have time, don’t quilt or, bottom line, just don’t care.
We tried to get a group of folks to do book study, using the book “Jesus of Nazareth” by the Pope. Was 3 of us, then 2, then 3 and then 2 and amazing, the last 2 of us finished the first book and gave up.

I’m not being snarky or nasty, I’m just being totally honest here and telling you what I have experienced here in this town with our only Catholic church. I was involved in my old church and enjoyed being involved, sure wish I could have brought the church, the people and the priests with me when I moved!

 

[the_phoenix]

After reading and posting in this thread last night I went to bed and wanted to finish reading Rome Sweet Home by Scott and Kimberly Hahn. I flipped the page to a new chapter…Catholic Family Life. He started the chapter talking about how converts can enter a culture shock when coming home. He went on to say that converts “feel that they have come home by becoming Catholics, they do not always feel at home in their new parish families.” He stated that he and Kimberly had experienced this. That was a surprise.

I’m not looking for coffee and donuts. I don’t look down on other’s who leave immediately after Mass. For all I know they may have to go to work, are taking care of someone who is ill.

Same here, maltmom.

It would be nice though for people not to give me a dirty look when all I’m doing is smiling and/or politely saying “hello” … and I’m not one to talk in church or disrupt silence in front of the Blessed Sacrament, so that’s not the problem.

Meeting some new actual Catholic friends would be even nicer. But when you make the effort and are rejected, then what? You start looking elsewhere for friends.

~~ the phoenix

 

[maltmom]

Same here, maltmom.

It would be nice though for people not to give me a dirty look when all I’m doing is smiling and/or politely saying “hello” … and I’m not one to talk in church or disrupt silence in front of the Blessed Sacrament, so that’s not the problem.

Meeting some new actual Catholic friends would be even nicer. But when you make the effort and are rejected, then what? You start looking elsewhere for friends.

~~ the phoenix

I don’t talk in church either. I prefer to enter church, kneel and feel the presence of God. After Mass I’ll smile at people as we are walking out. I don’t want to talk b/c others are still praying.

I don’t understand the dirty looks you are being given for smiling and a polite hello. I would never do that to someone. I wish I had an answer.

 

[MissRose73]

It depends on the parish in regards of their fellowship after Mass. Some have something after every Mass, maybe 1 time a month, or only after Sunday morning Masses, some have none. Some parishes may have not sufficient space for gatherings too. If you feel inclined, talk to your pastor about having something with fellowship - perhaps he will bring it up in a homily, announcements, and/or bulletin to get others involved.

My mother’s parish serves punch and coffee after each of the weekend Masses which the ushers/hospitality ministers prepare and serve. Many do stick around, have a cup of punch or a cup of coffee, and chat with others. Some will grab the free drink, drink it, and leave. Its good to see people actually not only enjoy their drink but talk with others. Once a month, then donuts or similar desserts are offered with the drinks too.

A few of the churches I travel to have offered a variety of fellowship after the Extraordinary Form Mass is finished. One parish that does the Mass once a month has their own small hall, and a few people donate drinks, appetizers, & snacks for all to partake in. Another one has a few people bring cookies and milk for fellowship in the small hallway outside the worship space. Yet another one to honor a church milestone for offering that kind of Mass invited people to a special dinner after Mass - about 100 people at most attended. A group for adults who like to attend the EF Mass that I belong invites people to a local restaurant (of course each person pays for their own meal), and I’ve gotten to know a few people that way too - usually a monthly thing (may 2x a month).

 

[Jegudiel]

Way to encourage fellowship! Ladies, I think you are cold-fish and I can’t imagine how you’d ever be able to get something like this going at our parish!

Wow. You should be glad to see that folks from your parish want to initiate fellowship. I’d call those 5 women and anyone else from your parish who was there and suggest that the group of you work to get something like a coffee hour or summertime bbq going at the parish.

If we want fellowship we need to work for it. There is no point in complaining that the parish doesn’t have such and such program, and then turning around and dissing the people in the parish who might be able to get something like that started.

They had a good idea in checking out the competition. The problem is that all five people are low caliber and they are not the type that many people want to be around. They don’t have the background and ability to do what needs to be done, YET they hold parish employment.

 

[Jegudiel]

Wow! I can’t believe some of the judgmental stuff I’m reading on this thread.

While I am cordial to everyone at Mass—I general see a lot of folks at morning Mass too, I am one to go straight home after Mass.

I would feel just awful to think that those that I attend Mass with several times/week spoke about me as I have read from some of you here just because I don’t feel the need to coffee clutch after Mass. How disheartening to read a remark such as this :

"However, the issue here is that for all too many Catholics, that “fellowship” ends with the last blessing. Heck, for some of them, it ends with Communion. It certainly doesn’t extend as far as the parking lot."

Yikes! You can’t really believe that at least I hope not.

I do.

This statement that you have made really saddens me:

"HARDENING: I also think a lot of Catholics have been hardened over the past few decades over all the garbage that has taken place in the Church. Given the choice they want to leave right after Mass (or communion.) It’s all about getting their tickets validated."

A lot of Catholics hardened over all the garbage that has taken place in the church??? Getting their tickets validated???

What garbage are you referring to ??? And validating their tickets??? A lot of Catholics???

Pedophilia. Rampant liturgical abuse. Utilitarian Masses. Lack of interest in the lives of parishioners. Lack of fellowship. The destruction of many church buildings, etc. etc.

I apologize if I don’t feel the need to hang out and have a donut and a cup of coffee after Mass and while you would hold that against me I know Christ would not.

Something is making you lash out. A feeling of guilt?

 

[Jegudiel]

I am not talking coffee and donuts here. I am one who really doesn’t enjoy “coffee, conversation and donuts” after church. BUT I would like to be able to go to a bible study, or a women’s group or something. You will not find those in our church, and if you want to have a group of people who study the bible, or have any kind of Christian gathering, you have to go to a protestant church. The nearest Catholic church outside of our small one is 40 miles away.

Someone tried to start a Sunday morning Bible study at my parish. I signed a list of people that would take part. Except for Masses in the church, the place is empty on Sundays. The two organizers were told “no.” About two years ago I mentioned that I and a handful of others would like to get a rosary started before the early Sunday morning Mass. My pastor actually looked horrified before saying “no.”

I tried to start a rosary making group at church, started off great, about 9 women there, ended about 3 months later when only 2 of us showed up and then just me the next month. No point in lugging that stuff to church if it’s only me, I can do it at home a lot easier.
I tried to get involved with the festival committee. And was amazed that it ever gets done, it’s so disorganized and no one knows what anyone else is doing and no one is willing to help anyone else and pass down knowledge and experience. It was a really painful experience. I tried to get a group of women to quilt once a month, and that never happened, the women don’t have time, don’t quilt or, bottom line, just don’t care.
We tried to get a group of folks to do book study, using the book “Jesus of Nazareth” by the Pope. Was 3 of us, then 2, then 3 and then 2 and amazing, the last 2 of us finished the first book and gave up.

I am sorry to hear of your experiences. I don’t think they are uncommon though. Many, many, many Catholics are conditioned to budget 40-50 minutes/week for “church” and that’s it.

I’m not being snarky or nasty, I’m just being totally honest here and telling you what I have experienced here in this town with our only Catholic church. I was involved in my old church and enjoyed being involved, sure wish I could have brought the church, the people and the priests with me when I moved!

Another huge problem at my parish is jealousy/control issues with the “inside laity” at my parish. Many will work ardently to kill any initiation they are not in charge of. It’s disgusting.

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

It’s much more than after-Mass coffee for me, as well. As a life-long Catholic I’m pretty inured to being almost run over in parking lots after Mass, being ignored during the Sign of the Peace, and being scowled at for daring to smile at someone as I make my way to and from the pews. I’ve attended various services in Catholic churches on four continents, and I’ve come to the conclusion that what outsides would see as unfriendliness is an unfortunate hallmark of Catholic culture.

I’ve been attending Mass my territorial parish for ten years, I was married here, and I sent one child to the parish school for a Catholic education, and I seriously doubt that today they have me as a registered member. I’ve registered with the parish four times (once when I moved here; the second time when I registered the child who was living with me at the school; the third time when I got married; and the fourth time last summer).

Granted, I’m not involved in parish ministries, I’m not a “visible presence” at the parish with the exception of attending Mass, going to Confession, and attending the occasional fish fry or fundraiser. But I don’t think being in an active ministry is a requirement to be listed as a member of a parish, is it?

I expected to register when I moved into the area. I was perplexed when, three years later, the parish office told me they didn’t have me listed when I went to enroll the child, and I re-registered. I was annoyed when I got engaged in 2006 and I tried make an appointment with the pastor and was told I needed to re-re-register first. And I was exasperated when I got shingles last summer, called the parish office to inquire about being added to the EMoHC home visitation list for a couple of weeks until I could safely be out in public and was told I couldn’t be put on the home visitation list. Why? Because I wasn’t a registered member of the parish. When I got better I went to the parish office and re-re-re-registered.

And then, wait for it, during this past Lent I got an email from the parish asking me to complete a registration form and drop it off at the office at my convenience. Seriously.

I can either laugh about this or cry about this. The upside of them never being able to get me registered is that I don’t get their appeals for money all the time. In fact, except for that one email I’ve never gotten any kind of parish correspondence. But honestly I do worry about getting a Catholic funeral if I died suddenly. I could easily imagine my husband calling the parish and being told that they can’t help him because I wasn’t a member of the parish.

My husband jokes that when I die St. Peter is going to turn me away from the gates because he doesn’t have my registration form.

So yeah, fellowship would be nice. It would be even better if I could get to the point when I was sure they just thought of me as one of their own.

Luna

 

[maltmom]

Oh Luna, I hope you can keep your sense of humor about all that. What I think is ironic is that they sent an e-mail to you about re-re-re-re-registering. If you weren’t on the membership roles how did they know your e-mail address. What if you wanted to sponsor someone. You’d have trouble proving you are a practicing Catholic. :banghead:

I understand what you are saying about the culture. Had I not already been a Christian, had not studied the Catholic faith to the point that I believed it was the true Church I would have gone to Mass a couple of times and not gone back. On the surface one would get the impression that there was no Christian love shown to others. I can remember being at one of my 1st Masses. I was fumbling through the missal. A woman several rows back on the other side of the aisle…came up to me with an open book and handed it to me and took mine. I’ve often wondered if she’s a convert as well b/c that is something that we always did in the Baptist church when someone was a visitor and they looked lost looking for a hymn or bible verse.

 

[Mrs_Sally]

They had a good idea in checking out the competition. The problem is that **all five people are low caliber **and they are not the type that many people want to be around. They don’t have the background and ability to do what needs to be done, YET they hold parish employment.

Wow. Way to win friends and influence people. I’m not sure I’d want to have coffee with your after Mass either if that’s the way you regularly talk about your fellow parishioners.

1Cor. 13:4 Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. 5 It does not dishonor others, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. 6 Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. 7 It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres.

 

[horselvr]

Jegudiel:

May I ask you please, if you have such hatred for Catholics and the Church why do you bother going to Mass?? Why not just get your coffee and donuts at the local protestant church where you can bash the Catholics and the Church till the cows come home.

"Pedophilia. Rampant liturgical abuse. Utilitarian Masses. Lack of interest in the lives of parishioners. Lack of fellowship. The destruction of many church buildings, etc. etc."

While your bent on condeming our Priests for a few bad apples, I happen to know that they are very well in the minority. You might want to do some research. Do you think this does not go on in protestant churches, schools, boy scouts, camps and on football teams? Why do you feel the need to tear down and not build up??

Why do you bother going to Mass if this is all you witness ? If you are this miserable why not go elsewhere?

"Something is making you lash out. A feeling of guilt?"

Gee, that’s exactly what I was going to say to you. LOL!

 

[Jegudiel]

It’s much more than after-Mass coffee for me, as well. As a life-long Catholic I’m pretty inured to being almost run over in parking lots after Mass, being ignored during the Sign of the Peace, and being scowled at for daring to smile at someone as I make my way to and from the pews. I’ve attended various services in Catholic churches on four continents, and I’ve come to the conclusion that what outsides would see as unfriendliness is an unfortunate hallmark of Catholic culture.

I’ve been attending Mass my territorial parish for ten years, I was married here, and I sent one child to the parish school for a Catholic education, and I seriously doubt that today they have me as a registered member. I’ve registered with the parish four times (once when I moved here; the second time when I registered the child who was living with me at the school; the third time when I got married; and the fourth time last summer).

Granted, I’m not involved in parish ministries, I’m not a “visible presence” at the parish with the exception of attending Mass, going to Confession, and attending the occasional fish fry or fundraiser. But I don’t think being in an active ministry is a requirement to be listed as a member of a parish, is it?

I expected to register when I moved into the area. I was perplexed when, three years later, the parish office told me they didn’t have me listed when I went to enroll the child, and I re-registered. I was annoyed when I got engaged in 2006 and I tried make an appointment with the pastor and was told I needed to re-re-register first. And I was exasperated when I got shingles last summer, called the parish office to inquire about being added to the EMoHC home visitation list for a couple of weeks until I could safely be out in public and was told I couldn’t be put on the home visitation list. Why? Because I wasn’t a registered member of the parish. When I got better I went to the parish office and re-re-re-registered.

And then, wait for it, during this past Lent I got an email from the parish asking me to complete a registration form and drop it off at the office at my convenience. Seriously.

I can either laugh about this or cry about this. The upside of them never being able to get me registered is that I don’t get their appeals for money all the time. In fact, except for that one email I’ve never gotten any kind of parish correspondence. But honestly I do worry about getting a Catholic funeral if I died suddenly. I could easily imagine my husband calling the parish and being told that they can’t help him because I wasn’t a member of the parish.

My husband jokes that when I die St. Peter is going to turn me away from the gates because he doesn’t have my registration form.

So yeah, fellowship would be nice. It would be even better if I could get to the point when I was sure they just thought of me as one of their own.

Luna

Oh my gosh! I am so sorry what you have gone through. I have a little anecdote you might like. I bought my house about 15 years ago. The couple I bought it from had bought it about 15 years earlier from the original owners – people my parents knew. They have both been dead for 20+ years.

I have registered at my parish twice as an adult. Mailings come for a couple of years and then stop. When I inquire I am told I am not on the list, yet the dead people continue to get their mail! I have dropped off their mail with a note twice over the years at the parish office. It keeps coming. I don’t try anymore.

This sort of stuff is a huge turn-off.

 

[Jegudiel]

Jegudiel:

May I ask you please, if you have such hatred for Catholics and the Church why do you bother going to Mass?? Why not just get your coffee and donuts at the local protestant church where you can bash the Catholics and the Church till the cows come home.

How dare you say I have hatred for the Catholic Church! That is terribly insulting. You should be deeply ashamed for saying that.

"Pedophilia. Rampant liturgical abuse. Utilitarian Masses. Lack of interest in the lives of parishioners. Lack of fellowship. The destruction of many church buildings, etc. etc."

While your bent on condeming our Priests for a few bad apples, I happen to know that they are very well in the minority. You might want to do some research. Do you think this does not go on in protestant churches, schools, boy scouts, camps and on football teams? Why do you feel the need to tear down and not build up??

Stop the excuses and the denial! It’s not a “few bad apples.” It’s a horrible, horrible, horrible thing that is finally be faced, thanks be to God. It’s the excuses and denial like your own that allowed all of this to happen in the first place. If you would have comprehended what I typed you would notice I listed some of the many reasons why Catholics are deeply hardened towards the Church not why I am.

Why do you bother going to Mass if this is all you witness ? If you are this miserable why not go elsewhere?

"Something is making you lash out. A feeling of guilt?"

Gee, that’s exactly what I was going to say to you. LOL!

Stop judging me. Your comments are very misplaced and I’m not about to back down from people like you. I attend Mass because I am obligated to. Because I want to receive the Grace from Calvary. I don’t attend for any other reason because my parish offers nothing else.

 

[Jegudiel]

Wow. Way to win friends and influence people. I’m not sure I’d want to have coffee with your after Mass either if that’s the way you regularly talk about your fellow parishioners.

I have know all five for over 10 years. They have done grave damage to my parish. Then again the pastor ultimately allows them to. I KNOW I would not want to have coffee with ANY of those five after Mass.

One of them was recently removed from her paid position at the parish based on how she mistreated people

 

[Ohana]

I have been reading this with some interest. The term fellowship is being used, when I get a sense that we might more readily call it community. I for one, do need a community, a group of like-minded people who share my beliefs and to whom I can offer support and receive it from them when in need.

I think Catholics tend to look to their ordained clergy for that, but we need to wake up and smell the coffee (no pun intended ) The days of a paternalistic priest available to everyone is no longer: we are too many and they are too few. Therefore we do need to reach out to each other for some of the things that we used to reach out to our clergy, nums and brothers.

One church we belonged to tried to develop small Christian communities - didn’t fly. We had a nephew who was so distressed with the lack of community that he formed an after Mass coffee donut time. Somehow, it was not satisfying to him In spite of 16 years of Catholic education he left the church and joined a small evangelical church.

I wonder if part of the problem is the hierarchical nature of Catholicism. Authoritarianism tends to stop dialog in its tracks. One of the efforts of Vatican II I think was to open up the parish to more influence and leadership by the laity. Indeed, with parish councils, that has happened in terms of governance. Catholics still have little opportunity for discussion/debate on issues of faith, biblical studies, relationship with Christ, and some of the other core issues of our faith. Sometime that discussion/debate/ conversation has less to do with disagreement than it does with making our faith our own.

I am certainly feeling “squeezed” at this point with the recent actions by our Bishops in taking us back to a more authoritarian structure. I am afraid there will be more people like our nephew. Actually, I am just afraid.