Mass for th Repose of the Soul of Osama Bin Laden???

[HerrZJA]

For my part, I think it’s a wonderful thing that someone put forward this intention for a Mass. I wouldn’t have the courage to do it myself, but I came to terms with Osama Bin Laden, who he is, and what he stands for, well before he died. We’re called as Christians (regardless of being Catholic or not) to forgive our enemies and turn the other cheek. It doesn’t matter if the enemy is a Muslim, a Jew, an Athiest, Buddhist, or whatever else under the sun.

Just as it is important to remember that not all Muslims are extremists (and not all extremists are terrorists), it is important to remember that, no matter how he is depicted in the media, Osama bin Laden was a human too, and was far more complex an individual than any label we could readily apply.

EDIT to add: Not that I am saying this couple should necessarily attend. I would, but its their conscience, and their decision.

 

[Namwalker]

To me the offering of this mass is an insult to all of us. This man has down nothing but try to destroy America and what we believe in. He has stood as a rallying point for all who want to detroy the church and America. When my father died, who was not a baptized Catholic died we were not allowed to have a mass for him, even though he was in the process of converting, and when he was buried in a Catholic cemetary I am told that his spot had to be unblessed by a priest who would not officiate at the graveside. This really seems like a double standard for someone of his notarity. Sure we should have compassion for the dead but he brought the devil to this world, and now we pray for him.

I find this a complete travesity of what our beliefs are. To me christian charity stops short of saying a holy mass for someone who made it his business to command the vileness that he and his followers have perpertrated upon the world.

This holy mass only serves to open up wounds that need to be healed. Perhaps the world needs to told of this mass. I feel if we don’t, then evil will continue to rule the darkness, and if this is not made known, then we would be saying that we are not proud of our actions. We can’t be proud and hide in the darkness. This man was truly evil. Does anyone remember if the Catholic church offered a special mass of Adolph Hitler. This is the same.

I fully expect that this posting will be pulled in the interest of political correctness and eccummenanicism (poor spelling). However, this is what I believe. We can’t hide in the darkness and pretend that this is a good thing. Not on Memorial Day.

I would not attend the mass and would express my displeasure to the bishop, and most probably look for another parish to support. I have lost to many friends to this type of evil over the years to be able to tolerate the honor this man is being given.

 

[Gertabelle]

I find this a complete travesity of what our beliefs are. To me christian charity stops short of saying a holy mass for someone who made it his business to command the vileness that he and his followers have perpertrated upon the world.

Jesus forgave those who crucified Him, the Son of God. They tortured and killed the Son of God! And yet He forgave them. He gave us a commandment – love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you – and an example.

Does anyone remember if the Catholic church offered a special mass **of **Adolph Hitler. This is the same.

This is not a Mass of Bin Laden. It is a Mass (the highest form of prayer) for Bin Laden. This would be a fulfillment of Our Lord’s commandment to pray for those who persecute you. Sunday’s Gospel: “If you love me, keep my commandments.”

I fully expect that this posting will be pulled in the interest of political correctness and eccummenanicism (poor spelling). However, this is what I believe. We can’t hide in the darkness and pretend that this is a good thing. Not on Memorial Day.

There is nothing in forum rules that says you have to be politcally correct, or the majority of people on here would have been banned within their first dozen posts. You must only be charitable and respectful, which you have been as far as I can see.

And the Mass will be on Thursday, June 2, not Memorial Day.

I would not attend the mass and would express my displeasure to the bishop, and most probably look for another parish to support. I have lost to many friends to this type of evil over the years to be able to tolerate the honor this man is being given.

He’s not being given an honor, he’s being prayed for. If he died unrepentant (refusing the saving action of Christ on the cross), then he did go to hell, and the graces earned by our prayers will be showered on others. No prayers are wasted, thanks be to God.

Gertie

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Namwalker, awesome post. You hit the nail on the head dead center. It’s amazing the priorities that there are out there. Of all the suffering people who need our prayer intentions. Of all the victims of genocide in Africa and mass rape, of all the Christians in the Middle East being slain by Muslims and harrassed, of all the starving kids in the world, all the immorality in our country, all the terrorism, all the unemployed, all the uninsured and homeless, and we’re wasting one minute to pray for this diabolical heathen that tried to destroy our very democracy and the principles of freedom. I agree with you. I guess we need to pray for Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Edie Amin, Pol Pot, Napoleon, the ethnic cleansers of Serbia, Mussolini, and every other dictator and mass murderer while we’re at it. What is this world coming to? Why waste our valuable time with this.

Thanks for your post!

To me the offering of this mass is an insult to all of us. This man has down nothing but try to destroy America and what we believe in. He has stood as a rallying point for all who want to detroy the church and America. When my father died, who was not a baptized Catholic died we were not allowed to have a mass for him, even though he was in the process of converting, and when he was buried in a Catholic cemetary I am told that his spot had to be unblessed by a priest who would not officiate at the graveside. This really seems like a double standard for someone of his notarity. Sure we should have compassion for the dead but he brought the devil to this world, and now we pray for him.

I find this a complete travesity of what our beliefs are. To me christian charity stops short of saying a holy mass for someone who made it his business to command the vileness that he and his followers have perpertrated upon the world.

This holy mass only serves to open up wounds that need to be healed. Perhaps the world needs to told of this mass. I feel if we don’t, then evil will continue to rule the darkness, and if this is not made known, then we would be saying that we are not proud of our actions. We can’t be proud and hide in the darkness. This man was truly evil. Does anyone remember if the Catholic church offered a special mass of Adolph Hitler. This is the same.

I fully expect that this posting will be pulled in the interest of political correctness and eccummenanicism (poor spelling). However, this is what I believe. We can’t hide in the darkness and pretend that this is a good thing. Not on Memorial Day.

I would not attend the mass and would express my displeasure to the bishop, and most probably look for another parish to support. I have lost to many friends to this type of evil over the years to be able to tolerate the honor this man is being given.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Namwalker, awesome post. You hit the nail on the head dead center. It’s amazing the priorities that there are out there. Of all the suffering people who need our prayer intentions. Of all the victims of genocide in Africa and mass rape, of all the Christians in the Middle East being slain by Muslims and harrassed, of all the starving kids in the world, all the immorality in our country, all the terrorism, all the unemployed, all the uninsured and homeless, and we’re wasting one minute to pray for this diabolical heathen that tried to destroy our very democracy and the principles of freedom. I agree with you. I guess we need to pray for Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Edie Amin, Pol Pot, Napoleon, the ethnic cleansers of Serbia, Mussolini, and every other dictator and mass murderer while we’re at it. What is this world coming to? Why waste our valuable time with this.

Thanks for your post!

Because Jesus commanded us to pray for our enemies.

I’m confused here. When Catholics talk about artificial birth control and abortion, we tell them that the faith is not pick and choose, that we should do everything Jesus and His Church teaches. Yet when it comes to things like this, we suddenly pick and choose and forget that Christ taught us to pray for those who hurt and persecute us. Read Acts 7, St. Stephen prayed for those people who stone him as they stone him. No condemnation, no asking for revenge or justice, just prayers for forgiveness and love.

 

[lvguccinet]

Yes, God will understand why they don’t go to Mass: “He plumbs the depths and penetrates the heart; their innermost being he understands” (Sirach 42:18). It is not for us to judge what we perceive to be the weakness of our brothers and sisters in Christ.

Personally, wholesale watches I would be able to go to a Mass offered for Bin Laden. It’s the MASS! I figure I could handle it even if the priest did try to turn the Mass into a political soapbox. As for who the Mass is offered for, replica designer watches that’s not my concern. I pray for ALL when I go to Mass, and for my own specific intentions as well.

But replica handbags God understands the hearts of those whose opinions and choices of action differ from mine. Just as I don’t stand in judgment on Bin Laden’s soul, neither do I stand in judgment of those who do (not saying that’s where the OP is coming from). Those of us who can pray for the Bin Ladens of the world must do so, but without passing judgment on those who can’t replica designer handbags.

 

[Biedrik]

To me the offering of this mass is an insult to all of us. This man has down nothing but try to destroy America and what we believe in. He has stood as a rallying point for all who want to detroy the church and America. When my father died, who was not a baptized Catholic died we were not allowed to have a mass for him, even though he was in the process of converting, and when he was buried in a Catholic cemetary I am told that his spot had to be unblessed by a priest who would not officiate at the graveside. This really seems like a double standard for someone of his notarity. Sure we should have compassion for the dead but he brought the devil to this world, and now we pray for him.

I’m sorry to hear about what happened involving your father. However, canon law states that a priest may offer Mass for anyone. ANYONE. Either your father died before the newer form of canon law came in, or a priest did something very wrong. Whichever it is, it doesn’t turn it into a double standard.

And yes, we pray for Osama specifically because he did something so evil. He needs it more than most people in this world. Remember, God wants ALL sinners to be reconciled. Of course, not all are. Most aren’t. Still, if Osama is in purgatory, then that is already a great triumph for God. If he gets to heaven, it will be an even greater triumph. You say Osama brought the devil into the world? Well if you want to counteract the devil, show love and charity, and pray for this man, because perhaps we can have a triumph over Satan.

I find this a complete travesity of what our beliefs are. To me christian charity stops short of saying a holy mass for someone who made it his business to command the vileness that he and his followers have perpertrated upon the world.

Christian charity stops nowhere. Does God ever stop loving? No. And we are to be like God. So our charity stops nowhere. Love thy enemy, and do not forget that love keeps no record of wrongs (1 Corinthians 13:5). It is in fact a travesty to of what our beliefs are to not pray for great sinners.

This holy mass only serves to open up wounds that need to be healed. Perhaps the world needs to told of this mass. I feel if we don’t, then evil will continue to rule the darkness, and if this is not made known, then we would be saying that we are not proud of our actions. We can’t be proud and hide in the darkness. This man was truly evil. Does anyone remember if the Catholic church offered a special mass of Adolph Hitler. This is the same.

Hmmm, and what if Mass was offered for Hitler? I wouldn’t be surprised if somebody did it. How on earth can the spreading of God’s mercy and love help evil? No matter what Osama did, we must love our enemies. Few acts of love are greater than offering something as holy as the sacrifice of the Mass.

I fully expect that this posting will be pulled in the interest of political correctness and eccummenanicism (poor spelling). However, this is what I believe. We can’t hide in the darkness and pretend that this is a good thing. Not on Memorial Day.

First, it’s ecumenism. Second of all, we cannot pretend that showing love and mercy are evil things. See what I’ve written above.

I would not attend the mass and would express my displeasure to the bishop, and most probably look for another parish to support. I have lost to many friends to this type of evil over the years to be able to tolerate the honor this man is being given.

You’ve lost friends to merciful actions? How odd. Also, this is not an honor. No one is praising Osama. All that is being done here is a fulfillment of the command to love one’s enemies.

On a side note, it saddens me greatly that Catholics are being so hateful towards this. How dare you all disobey the command to love our enemies? How dare you? It saddens me that those who are part of the Church would dare to so seriously contradict Christ’s command to love one’s enemies, and then criticize those who obey this. How dare you? Were I the bishop receiving complaints about this, there would be chastisements around. Perhaps people need this sort of Mass, to remind them to be merciful.

Namwalker, awesome post. You hit the nail on the head dead center. It’s amazing the priorities that there are out there. Of all the suffering people who need our prayer intentions. Of all the victims of genocide in Africa and mass rape, of all the Christians in the Middle East being slain by Muslims and harrassed, of all the starving kids in the world, all the immorality in our country, all the terrorism, all the unemployed, all the uninsured and homeless, and we’re wasting one minute to pray for this diabolical heathen that tried to destroy our very democracy and the principles of freedom. I agree with you. I guess we need to pray for Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Edie Amin, Pol Pot, Napoleon, the ethnic cleansers of Serbia, Mussolini, and every other dictator and mass murderer while we’re at it. What is this world coming to? Why waste our valuable time with this.

Thanks for your post!

Prayer for mercy is an act of love, and love is never wasted. Do not think that those you mention are not prayed for. And yes, we do need to pray for all those men. All those evil doers. There are few people who need more help in prayer. Do not think that I don’t understand the gravity of such an act. I come from a Polish family and have a fair number of relatives who died at the hands of Stalin and Hitler, and I have seen the terrible scars they have left in the Polish nation. Yet that is exactly why we must pray for them. Because we must love our enemies, and because the salvation of each person is a mighty triumph for God. Do you want triumph for God?

 

[Wowbagger]

I guess we need to pray for Joseph Stalin, Adolf Hitler, Edie Amin, Pol Pot, Napoleon, the ethnic cleansers of Serbia, Mussolini, and every other dictator and mass murderer while we’re at it.

Yes. Of course. We’re Catholics. Praying for the most wretched is what we do.

What is this world coming to? Why waste our valuable time with this?

Because Christ said that it was good to do so.

If we don’t follow His commands… then in what sense can we call ourselves Christians at all, much less Catholics?

I say this as someone who celebrated the American victory over bin Laden, who cheers for the good that his death did for the world and am overjoyed by the fact that justice was done. If I had been in Washington that night, I would have been out there with the crowd chanting “U.S.A.! U.S.A.!” Osama bin Laden’s death is unquestionably a good thing for the world and, insofar as it prevented him doing even greater evils, may well have given him his last, best hope of salvation. Ding dong! Osama’s dead!

Yet. We. Love. Him.

And so we pray for his soul. I hope your parish priest doesn’t turn this into a political harangue, OP, but it is a good thing that a Mass is being offered for the repose of bin Laden’s soul. It is a good thing when a Mass is offered for the repose of anyone’s soul. This is beyond question. This is dogma. This is when obedience to the clear and unambiguous words of Christ becomes both most difficult and most vital to the salvation of our own souls. This is when “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us” begins to have real meaning.

However, perhaps we also need to start offering Masses for those who feel incapable of praying for bin Laden’s soul.

 

[Stylites]

Yes, God will understand why they don’t go to Mass: “He plumbs the depths and penetrates the heart; their innermost being he understands” (Sirach 42:18). It is not for us to judge what we perceive to be the weakness of our brothers and sisters in Christ.

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No one is interested in your spammer links.

 

[Gertabelle]

No one is interested in your spammer links.

I reported it.

 

[ConstantineTG]

Yes. Of course. We’re Catholics. Praying for the most wretched is what we do.

Because Christ said that it was good to do so.

If we don’t follow His commands… then in what sense can we call ourselves Christians at all, much less Catholics?

I say this as someone who celebrated the American victory over bin Laden, who cheers for the good that his death did for the world and am overjoyed by the fact that justice was done. If I had been in Washington that night, I would have been out there with the crowd chanting “U.S.A.! U.S.A.!” Osama bin Laden’s death is unquestionably a good thing for the world and, insofar as it prevented him doing even greater evils, may well have given him his last, best hope of salvation. Ding dong! Osama’s dead!

Yet. We. Love. Him.

And so we pray for his soul. I hope your parish priest doesn’t turn this into a political harangue, OP, but it is a good thing that a Mass is being offered for the repose of bin Laden’s soul. It is a good thing when a Mass is offered for the repose of anyone’s soul. This is beyond question. This is dogma. This is when obedience to the clear and unambiguous words of Christ becomes both most difficult and most vital to the salvation of our own souls. This is when “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us” begins to have real meaning.

However, perhaps we also need to start offering Masses for those who feel incapable of praying for bin Laden’s soul.

Beautiful words. May God bless you all the more.

 

[BlytheSky]

To me christian charity stops short of saying a holy mass for someone who made it his business to command the vileness that he and his followers have perpertrated upon the world.

I had no idea that Christian charity had limits. I rather had the impression it was limitless. I thought the point was that it was limitless, or should be. The message of the cross - and Christ Crucified - seems unequivocal on this point.

Nonetheless, I respect completely those who say they do not feel comfortable with the dedication of this Mass. If the fact of this dedication, and the discomfort it brings about, detracts from the experience of Mass, and then it’s better not to go; especially since, as you say, the Priest turns the homily into a political statement. That certainly seems wrong: I thought there was a requirement that the homily be a religious teaching, not a political soapbox. It will certainly alienate some of the attendees, and turn their mind from the holy purpose of Mass.

I would talk to the Priest about it, though. It might be illuminating to hear his thoughts on this decision.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

I can’t even believe we’re having this discussion.

Ok, it’s highly offensive in our practical, everyday experience.

But the Christian message isn’t any more blatantly obvious. Like, this is the end result of Christianity. There’s nothing to argue about it. “Enemies” are prayed for. Since the times of… um, Jesus.

 

[GloriousOrder]

Dearest friend, you have complained that this celebration of the Holy Mass may be turned into a political sideshow for the priest. Why does it concern you? If you know the priest’s homily will be insulting or ridiculous, you are not obliged to agree with him or even to listen. Our Lord Jesus Christ just wants you to be there, bringing more food and wine to His table, and assisting at the foot of His Cross. We humans are called to take up the cross that most burdens us, not put it down for more convenient or less painful crosses. When St. Peter asked our Saviour why St. John got to live longer, Jesus said “what is that to you? follow me”! What is bin Laden’s Mass to you? Follow the Lord Christ - who commands you to pray for the most evil and forgive your BROTHER seventy times seven times. If you must forgive your brother 70 x 7 times, how many times must you forgive those who you’d never consider a friend, let alone a brother?

If a sort of proud, victim-centric attitude is part of your life right now, you are ordered by almighty God to deny pride and victimhood. Osama bin Laden is a human being, and any Mass offered for his absolutely filthy soul may yet give him a chance, and may yet give him hope. WE ARE NOT MADE FOR HELL - GOD FORMED US AND PUT US IN EDEN. Osama bin Laden is meant for Eden. Hitler is meant for Eden! This is our very nature.

Denying anyone your prayers at the holy, eternal Mass is akin to hoping that person is in Hell. You should pray and beg and hope with all your heart that NO ONE is in Hell. In this sense, remember what our Lord said: “Amen I tell you: to those who have, it will be given” - and I understand that to mean: those who wish the evil to be dead in Hell forever shall be given death in Hell forever, because they do evil by their wishes. Do to others what you’d have done to you. Do you wish people would avoid praying for your sinful soul? I certainly would like as many prayers for my sins as possible!

If I, the most anti-Moslem, anti-revolutionary, anti-Eastern, pro-monarchist, pro-conservative traditionalist, can offer a rosary for bin Laden’s soul, you can assist at the holy Mass for his soul. Be charitable! For God’s sake, see that you’re not perfect. Don’t get on a high horse and condemn the Mass because you’re a patriotic American. The proud will be humbled, and the humbled will be exalted. Be proud of your country, but if it leads you to harshness and severity, soften yourself. God wants a good, moderate, charitable, hopeful, faithful soul who is in right order with all faculties. Getting angry and running away from Mass helps no one and condemns you.

 

[Stylites]

He’s not being given an honor, he’s being prayed for. If he died unrepentant (refusing the saving action of Christ on the cross), then he did go to hell, and the graces earned by our prayers will be showered on others. No prayers are wasted, thanks be to God.

You are making some big judgement calls there. Bin Laden could very well be in heaven right now, if he was insane and thereby not responsible for the evil he unleashed and commanded.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

That would be a stretch. That would be invincible ignorance on steroids. OBL knew full well what he was doing. He was a calm, methodical, patient, diabolical man who not only ruined the 3,000 plus lives of the 911 responders, workers, passengers, and innocent businessmen and women, he took lives on the U.S.S. Cole, the embassies in Africa, U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan, in Spain, and other places. He spread panic, terror, and cost this country billions of dollars. If Bin Laden gets into heaven, then it’s pretty much official that nobody is going to hell. Hitler, Stalin, and the ethnic cleansers all can plead the insanity defense but this isn’t Law and Order. This is God. And God knows evil when He sees it. Too bad so many humans cannot.

You are making some big judgement calls there. Bin Laden could very well be in heaven right now, if he was insane and thereby not responsible for the evil he unleashed and commanded.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

I wonder if Charles Martel and the Catholic soldiers prayed for the Muslims who just got through trying to hack them to pieces and conquer Europe for Islam after Martel and the boys taught them a lesson on the battlefield? I wonder if the Church held prayer vigils for Hitler, Goebbels, Himmler, and all the death camp commanders at the end of WWII? I wonder if the Church recommends praying for all the rapists in Darfur?

I do have better things to do. I will pray for the victims.

Yes. Of course. We’re Catholics. Praying for the most wretched is what we do.

Because Christ said that it was good to do so.

If we don’t follow His commands… then in what sense can we call ourselves Christians at all, much less Catholics?

I say this as someone who celebrated the American victory over bin Laden, who cheers for the good that his death did for the world and am overjoyed by the fact that justice was done. If I had been in Washington that night, I would have been out there with the crowd chanting “U.S.A.! U.S.A.!” Osama bin Laden’s death is unquestionably a good thing for the world and, insofar as it prevented him doing even greater evils, may well have given him his last, best hope of salvation. Ding dong! Osama’s dead!

Yet. We. Love. Him.

And so we pray for his soul. I hope your parish priest doesn’t turn this into a political harangue, OP, but it is a good thing that a Mass is being offered for the repose of bin Laden’s soul. It is a good thing when a Mass is offered for the repose of anyone’s soul. This is beyond question. This is dogma. This is when obedience to the clear and unambiguous words of Christ becomes both most difficult and most vital to the salvation of our own souls. This is when “forgive us our trespasses as we forgive those who trespass against us” begins to have real meaning.

However, perhaps we also need to start offering Masses for those who feel incapable of praying for bin Laden’s soul.

 

[Phemie]

My DH and I feel that it is insulting. Our son served 15 years, in the Army. Our nephew is serving now, in the Marines.

My sister lost a dear friend on the flight on 9/11, trying to save the people in the other plane. He left behind a wife and children.

We would feel like hypocrites, attending.

We are to love our enemy and how better than to pray for the repose of their souls?

 

[jja619]

Praying for the ones that may seem most undeserving can be quite humbling. We are called to be humble. Being so leads us to Christ.

The several times I went out in front of the abortion clinic with a group to pray, we all prayed not only for the souls of the unborn and the families involved, but also for the doctors and people working at the clinic who were involved in this atrocity. If we do not pray for them, how can we expect a conversion of heart?

We all fall into sin, but we are all called to love one another. Even more than ourselves.

 

[Biedrik]

That would be a stretch. That would be invincible ignorance on steroids. OBL knew full well what he was doing. He was a calm, methodical, patient, diabolical man who not only ruined the 3,000 plus lives of the 911 responders, workers, passengers, and innocent businessmen and women, he took lives on the U.S.S. Cole, the embassies in Africa, U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan, in Spain, and other places. He spread panic, terror, and cost this country billions of dollars. If Bin Laden gets into heaven, then it’s pretty much official that nobody is going to hell. Hitler, Stalin, and the ethnic cleansers all can plead the insanity defense but this isn’t Law and Order. This is God. And God knows evil when He sees it. Too bad so many humans cannot.

It is not our place to judge. The Church has never declared anyone to be in hell, and neither should you. To claim that Osama cannot get into heaven is to put yourself in the judgment seat of God.

I wonder if Charles Martel and the Catholic soldiers prayed for the Muslims who just got through trying to hack them to pieces and conquer Europe for Islam after Martel and the boys taught them a lesson on the battlefield? I wonder if the Church held prayer vigils for Hitler, Goebbels, Himmler, and all the death camp commanders at the end of WWII? I wonder if the Church recommends praying for all the rapists in Darfur?

I do have better things to do. I will pray for the victims.

The Church has always prayed for those engaging in evil and persecution, ever since the very first martyr. The fact of the matter is that both the persecutors and the victims need prayer. To not pray for both when you can is uncharitable and evil. Go back and read what St. Stephen says to God as he is being killed.