Mass in Another Language?

[demerzel85]

I have attended Mass in Bahasa Indonesia before. I even with the printed booklet, I ended up responding in Latin for the parts that I am fluent in.

 

[Brendan]

I used to travel internationally for work. Most often I would find the local Latin Mass, which would allow me to verbally participate.

There were a few times, such as Paris and Seoul, Korea where that wasn’t fesable. ( On my first week in Korea, I did go to the Latin Mass at the Cathedral, but on the second week, I had to go the Saturday vigil Mass, as I was flying home early Sunday Morning. That Mass was in Korean)

I have also been to several French Masses in Quebec (visting the in-laws)

Mostly, I know the Mass well enough that I quietly pray the responses in English or Latin.

Bring along an English Missal with you and read the readings of the day while they are being proclaimed. Reflect and Pray on them during the homily ( perform a lectio divina). Then focus your attention on the altar and ponder the mystery of the Eucharist.

The whole point, though, to the ‘active participation’ of Vatican II is not in performing any verbal responese, but rather it is the active presentation of oneself to God and the uniting one’s personal sacrifice of heart, mind and will to the sacrifice of the priest on the altar.

The active participation of the Mass can be done in any language.

 

[cutiesmak]

Thanks! I think I might start by talking to Fr. Jose, our Spanish priest. I’m sure he has great advice too.

In response to Sam88, no probably not a regular thing. We just wanted to try it out, try out the time, and just see what the Spanish Catholic community was up to. Because we live in such a predominantly Spanish-speaking area, I think I might feel more connected to my church and community if I got to know people of both cultures.

 

[Patchunky]

Haha, same here Nekic, apart from living near St Nikola Tavelic What a pair of rogues we are.

Haven’t been to a Croatian Mass in a good 12 or 15 years.

And I bet you both still sing KOLENDY on Bozicna Vecer

Marija gaj je rodila, U jaslice polozila…

 

[Nekic]

And I bet you both still sing KOLENDY on Bozicna Vecer

Marija gaj je rodila, U jaslice polozila…

Another Cro!

And I don’t know about Lily, but when I go to a cro gathering, I cringe at the music.
I give you that some tunes are catchy, like volim piti (a bunch of drunken morons wrote that song… “I love to drink”…), but I prefer my classical.

And anyway, I don’t know enough of the language to sing the words. All I know is my prayers and “Kako si?” “Dobro [insert explicitive here].” and other odd phrases like “koliko e sati?” or “ti si [insert noun/insult here]” or the odd disgusting swear word, which I inherited from my grandfather.

 

[LilyM]

Yah, never been terribly fond of most of that Croatian music … :nope: My parents aren’t really into music in any event, so what we sing at Christmas Mass is about it.

I can follow a bit of conversation if it’s simple enough - it always gives the relatives a shock when I can understand and laugh at their jokes And of course some of the swearwords - kids always manage to learn a few don’t they

Can’t speak to save myself though. Can’t even roll the ‘r’ s properly.

 

[tee_eff_em]

If you have attended a foreign-language mass, how well did you catch on?

When we visited the Vatican, my bride and I joined a group celebrating a Mass in either Italian or Spanish (I wasn’t sure). I guessed they were celebrating a votive Mass for St Peter – My combination of highschool Spanish and Latin ear recognized the responsorial as Psalm 23, and the Gospel as Simon(Peter)'s profession of faith.

It was pretty cool.

For one reason or another, I’ve also attended Masses in French, Spanish, Italian and Latin.

tee

 

[Nekic]

Yah, never been terribly fond of most of that Croatian music … :nope: My parents aren’t really into music in any event, so what we sing at Christmas Mass is about it.

I can follow a bit of conversation if it’s simple enough - it always gives the relatives a shock when I can understand and laugh at their jokes And of course some of the swearwords - kids always manage to learn a few don’t they

Can’t speak to save myself though. Can’t even roll the ‘r’ s properly.

I can’t even do the understanding. Baba says something, I go “huh?”

And you can’t roll the r’s? What’s a wog that can’t roll r’s? Practice!

 

[Cavaille-Coll]

Pax vobiscum!

The Polish parish here in Portland, St. Stanislaw’s, does a Mass in Croatian once or twice a month (as well as Polish and English Masses).

In Christ,
Rand

Spanish, German, Vietnamese, Portuguese, Latin, Ukrainian, and Arabic here.

St. Stanislaus is an excellent parish, but I have only been to Mass in English there. Still, very orthodox and reverent. I also highly recommend St. Sharbel’s Maronite Church.

 

[DWPC]

Maybe this is a question for an apologist, but it fits here.

If one accepts that the principal reason for the NO was to provide for Mass participation with understanding by the congregation, isn’t voluntarily attending Mass in language that you don’t understand (except an indulted TLM, of course) contrary to the Church’s intent and wrong?

Unless there’s no other accessible Mass in one’s vernacular, it seems to me that attending an non-understood foreign language Mass just to fulfill one Sunday obligation is attendance only in a technical sense, and may be morally invalid.

I’m not being judgemental, but curious of the consensus

 

[jmcrae]

Maybe this is a question for an apologist, but it fits here.

If one accepts that the principal reason for the NO was to provide for Mass participation with understanding by the congregation, isn’t voluntarily attending Mass in language that you don’t understand (except an indulted TLM, of course) contrary to the Church’s intent and wrong?

Why would you exempt the Indult TLM? (Although I assume that the devotees of the TLM are conversant in Latin, anyway.)

Unless there’s no other accessible Mass in one’s vernacular, it seems to me that attending an non-understood foreign language Mass just to fulfill one Sunday obligation is attendance only in a technical sense, and may be morally invalid.

I’m not being judgemental, but curious of the consensus

That’s an interesting question.

In my case, the Masses I attended were not Sunday Masses, and I had various reasons for attending them, including completing a Novena of week-day Masses for a prayer intention; participating in a local community holiday event that also included Mass in the language of our community; and celebrating a Saint’s day with friends at a different parish.

 

[DWPC]

Why would you exempt the Indult TLM?

Because the TLM is formally recognized by the Church as appropriate for any Catholic of any language. And the TLM has a missal allowing its liturgy to be closely followed. The Gospel and homily in a TLM are in the venacular. I doubt many foreign language NO Masses offer English translation, and the Gospel and homily will not be in English.

I don’t think there’s any problem if the attendance is justified. Its only those who go purely because its more convenient than a Mass in their language that I wonder about.

 

[jmcrae]

Because the TLM is formally recognized by the Church as appropriate for any Catholic of any language. And the TLM has a missal allowing its liturgy to be closely followed. The Gospel and homily in a TLM are in the venacular. I doubt many foreign language NO Masses offer English translation, and the Gospel and homily will not be in English.

But you can just use your English Missal - they don’t do a different Mass; it’s still the same Mass, even though it’s in Spanish or German, etc.

Any TLM I’ve gone to has never had the Gospel in English, or any homily at all. (I have only gone to low Masses during the week, though - I suppose they must have homilies on Sundays.) Yes, there is a Missal, but the NO has a Missal, too.

 

[Gearoidin]

Because the TLM is formally recognized by the Church as appropriate for any Catholic of any language. And the TLM has a missal allowing its liturgy to be closely followed. The Gospel and homily in a TLM are in the venacular. I doubt many foreign language NO Masses offer English translation, and the Gospel and homily will not be in English.

I don’t think there’s any problem if the attendance is justified. Its only those who go purely because its more convenient than a Mass in their language that I wonder about.

My NO parish offers translations of the Mass from Japanese into English, Tagalog and Spanish. Translations of the readings and Gospel are also provided. The only part not translated is the homily. I have found a similar situation in other parishes in Japan. Because most of the Mass is chanted and hence quite slow, anyone who can read hiragana (all kanji have the hiragana readings too) can also follow the Japanese.
However, I do wish I could understand the homily properly. Sometimes I get about 70% but sometimes only 10-20%. It all depends on the topic.
We do have an English Mass twice a month but the priest (a lovely, holy man) mixes Tagalog and English constantly without being aware of it. I have at times come away from the English Mass having understood far less than at the Japanese Mass. Because if this, I rarely attend the English Mass now.

Gearoidin

 

[Brendan]

Maybe this is a question for an apologist, but it fits here.

If one accepts that the principal reason for the NO was to provide for Mass participation with understanding by the congregation,

I think you misunderstand exactly WHAT the Council meant by “active participation”

The active particpation we do is entirely independant of the language of the liturgy. It is our desire to unite ourselves and our personal sacrifice with the Sacrifice of Calvary being represented on the altar.

It requires no understanding of what is being said, as the action itself is purely our desire. Desire is indepentant language and is actually best accomplished with prayerful silence.

Some good reading on this particular subject is Pope Benedict’s book “The Spirit of the Liturgy”, specifically Part 4, Chapter 2

He describes exactly what we have to do to actively participate in the Liturgy.

 

[johnnykins]

Correct me if I’m wrong, but I believe the Mass is generally to be celebrated in Latin - the use of the local language being a matter of indult. Funny how some indults quickly become universal and others require a figurative crow-bar to pry one out of the bishops.

Saying that, I have attended Mass in a variety of languages without any real problem. As to the homilies, I’m grateful for NOT understanding them as I too frequently find the drivel that passes for the vast majority of English homilies tough enough to withstand. While an integral part of the Mass, the homily is NOT the central part of the Mass.

One thing I have attended, which was pretty near a disaster, was a dual language Mass. Sometimes the English version of a prayer was said first, other times the Spanish version. Sometimes only the English version, other times only the Spanish version - all without apparent rhyme or reason. All certainly without an order of worship to give the congregation a hint as to what to say/do next. Couple that with two homiles and the usual dreck for music and it was another stellar example of what clerical fools and liturgical fools can do to the Mass.

All in all, we would be better off with the Latin version of the Mass taught and used universally with the local language being used as needed on an indult basis for catechesis and improved understanding - Just like VII intended.

 

[johnnykins]

But you can just use your English Missal - they don’t do a different Mass; it’s still the same Mass, even though it’s in Spanish or German, etc.

Any TLM I’ve gone to has never had the Gospel in English, or any homily at all. (I have only gone to low Masses during the week, though - I suppose they must have homilies on Sundays.) Yes, there is a Missal, but the NO has a Missal, too.

Gee, I haven’t been to a TLM since the 1960s but the Gospel was always read in English - as was the Epistle. You must have a really hard core TLM group.

 

[Gottle_of_Geer]

Chinese, Portuguese and German here.

Agreed, it’s easy enough to follow along. I would make all the responses, and pray the prayers in English in my head, since I’m familiar enough with them to do so.

And I’m the type who normally reads up on the Scriptures for Sunday Mass before I go, so at least I usually know what the readings are for that day.

Polish, Turkish, & Ukrainian ​

I didn’t understand a word - except for the Sanctus in Polish, which was straightforward, because it sounds sufficiently close to Latin to be recognisable. Latin doesn’t count, because that is not much more difficult than English. ##

 

[LilyM]

It’s not about understanding each word - it’s about knowing which prayer/response they’re up to. I go to pretty much daily Mass, have done for a while, so I could probably say one myself by now without too much effort

 

[drforjc]

Unless there’s no other accessible Mass in one’s vernacular, it seems to me that attending an non-understood foreign language Mass just to fulfill one Sunday obligation is attendance only in a technical sense, and may be morally invalid.

I think one would have a hard time demonstrating that you do not meet the obligation. By your proposed standard, anyone who does not understand Latin but attends a Latin mass (either TLM or NO) when mass in their vernacular was available would probably not be fulfilling his obligation.