Mass no-nos

[pnewton]

Evidently, you did not carefully read the section from Redemptionis Sacramentum. Communion services should not be a carte blanche issue. If the priest visits on Sunday, then, this provision should be examined:

Let us change the bolding:

[166.] Likewise, especially if Holy Communion is distributed during such celebrations, the diocesan Bishop, to whose** exclusive** competence this matter pertains, must not easily grant permission for such celebrations to be held on weekdays,

If we take the first point first and the second point second, I see the abuse as being that of second-guessing the diocesan bishop in an area that is uniequivocally exclusive to him. The second point is subordinate. It is instructional. It is not universal.

If a priest is holding CS without permission of his bishop, then he is in the wrong. If the bishop has granted permission for certain times to be a CS, then he might be prudent or imprudent, but not abusive.

 

[benedictgal]

Let us change the bolding:

[166.] Likewise, especially if Holy Communion is distributed during such celebrations, the diocesan Bishop, to whose** exclusive** competence this matter pertains, must not easily grant permission for such celebrations to be held on weekdays,

If we take the first point first and the second point second, I see the abuse as being that of second-guessing the diocesan bishop in an area that is uniequivocally exclusive to him. The second point is subordinate. It is instructional. It is not universal.

If a priest is holding CS without permission of his bishop, then he is in the wrong. If the bishop has granted permission for certain times to be a CS, then he might be prudent or imprudent, but not abusive.

I am not saying that it is not within his competence. Nowhere have I said that. However, I go back to the part where the document says “must not easily grant permission.” In the case of parishes down here who have these services when the priests are on retreat, this should not be happening. Now, in the case of the community that is 65 miles away, the priest should at least make another trip during the week to take of the people entrusted to him. But, having six communion services in a week is a bit much.

 

[zab]

Every day, though? Is there Sunday Mass at this particular mission? At the heart of the issue is this:

By your own admission, this area already has Sunday Mass. Now, this week we have a Holy Day of Obligation. If for whatever reason a priest cannot make it, then, a CS certainliy could take place. However, as the document also states, the priest in charge of that particular parish should make some effort to go out there at least one other time during the week. But, to have a CS six times a week is a bit much.

I am wondering if the poster could be mistaken about that parish having 6 CS a week. But having a Communion Service every weekday in not in itself a bad thing. The bishop may be more informed about this particular congregation when giving his permission if that is indeed the case. It is just that it has been observed in some priestless parishes led by a lay minister that they become like what was described in Redemptionis Sacramentum when they have Communion Services regularly. It is one thing to be confident, hopeful and at peace in the situation that you are in. But it is not good when people begin to think that they are doing just as well or are better off not having a full time pastor- a sense of “we don’t need you.”

 

[jmcrae]

I’m interested to know besides those of us that have already mentioned our parishes have a communion service during the week-days, how about you others and your parishes do you have it?

I have only seen it happen once. We had gathered for Mass - about 400 people (this was actually a week day) - and the priest didn’t come. Someone went to the Rectory to search for him, but he could not be found. So, someone phoned the Bishop’s office to ask what we should do. The Bishop’s office faxed over an order of service, and the Sacristan led it for us. He then asked for any EMHCs to assist in distribution of Holy Communion, at the end of the service.

Later, we found out that the priest had been away on a call to the hospital for someone who was dying, and then on his way back to the Church, something happened to his car. He didn’t have his phone with him for some reason, so he had to walk a long distance to find a phone, and by the time he got there to phone the Sacristan to let him know where he was, the communion service was already under way. After the communion service, several of the men went to get the priest, and to help him with his car.

 

[bilop]

Exactly! CSs are not prohibited during the week. That’s simply false.

We used to have CSs at my parish on Saturday morning for YEARS because the priests wanted to sleep-in or go play golf. Was that OK? Nope and it would never happen today due to a new bishop and pastor.

But is it wrong to allow a mission 65 miles from the nearest priest to have a M-Sat CS? Absolutely not – at least as far as the Church goes.

Some people here have VERY creative (and flawed) interpretations of various Church documents here. Maybe they should start relying on their bishops to interpret them for them and not on themselves…

But why have the Communion Services during the week? Why not just pray the Liturgy of the Hours?

CS are intended for those who do not have regular access to Holy Communion. In this parish it is available every Sunday.

God Bless

 

[zab]

But why have the Communion Services during the week? Why not just pray the Liturgy of the Hours?

CS are intended for those who do not have regular access to Holy Communion. In this parish it is available every Sunday.

God Bless

Each situation is different. We have the Liturgy of Hours prayed every morning at 7:30. So on days when we have no priest, we have Exposition of the Blessed Sacrament, Liturgy of the Word and Benediction lead by our deacon.

 

[Hotchkiss]

Well, for starters, most diocese stipulate that priests are entitled to like 36 hours of “off time.” I know of some priests who say the morning mass on Friday and take time off until noon on Saturday.

So? We have more than one priest. Further, there are a number of retired priests that are available. A retired priest celebrates most of our Saturday morning Masses for us now and he’s been available for years.

Secondly, priests are not supposed to say more than 2 masses in a day except for Sundays and rare exceptions. Given that on Saturday there is a vigil mass and that its the most popular day for weddings and that funerals could also come in, the lack of a Saturday morning daily mass is not necessarily an indication of wanting to sleep in or play golf.

Yes, but many bishops grant permission for communion services.

A group complained to the bishop about the Saturday morning CS’s and they ended more than 5 years ago. We had priests “on-campus” during the weekly Saturday CS’s and that was quite wrong.

 

[Hotchkiss]

But why have the Communion Services during the week? Why not just pray the Liturgy of the Hours?

CS are intended for those who do not have regular access to Holy Communion. In this parish it is available every Sunday.

God Bless

Why NOT have the Communion Services during the week? A CS makes available the awesome gift of being able to receive Holy Communion outside of a sacrificial liturgy. That alone is reason enough.

 

[Hotchkiss]

Let us change the bolding:

[166.] Likewise, especially if Holy Communion is distributed during such celebrations, the diocesan Bishop, to whose** exclusive** competence this matter pertains, must not easily grant permission for such celebrations to be held on weekdays,

If we take the first point first and the second point second, I see the abuse as being that of second-guessing the diocesan bishop in an area that is uniequivocally exclusive to him. The second point is subordinate. It is instructional. It is not universal.

If a priest is holding CS without permission of his bishop, then he is in the wrong. If the bishop has granted permission for certain times to be a CS, then he might be prudent or imprudent, but not abusive.

Very well said. Thank you.

 

[Hotchkiss]

I am wondering if the poster could be mistaken about that parish having 6 CS a week. But having a Communion Service every weekday in not in itself a bad thing. The bishop may be more informed about this particular congregation when giving his permission if that is indeed the case. It is just that it has been observed in some priestless parishes led by a lay minister that they become like what was described in Redemptionis Sacramentum when they have Communion Services regularly. It is one thing to be confident, hopeful and at peace in the situation that you are in. But it is not good when people begin to think that they are doing just as well or are better off not having a full time pastor- a sense of “we don’t need you.”

The members that make-up this mission are largely retired Catholics who are serious about their faith. It is a huge part of their lives and I suspect that one day they will have their own priest one day. But until then the bishop through their pastor has approved Mon-Sat communion services.

 

[NewEnglandPriest]

So? We have more than one priest. Further, there are a number of retired priests that are available. A retired priest celebrates most of our Saturday morning Masses for us now and he’s been available for years.

My point was that there’s a variety of reasons that could exist beyond simply “wanting to sleep in or play golf.” There are also things that priests might be doing that aren’t known to the general parish that might conflict with Saturday morning masses. Hiring a retired priest to say a weekly mass could be a budget issue. I was simply pointing out that I think the judgment about the reasons why there was no Saturday morning mass were unjustified.

A group complained to the bishop about the Saturday morning CS’s and they ended more than 5 years ago. We had priests “on-campus” during the weekly Saturday CS’s and that was quite wrong.

Well, maybe. Priests have a right to a day/time off even if they are “on campus.”

 

[bmadamsberry]

For the past year, we had a sick priest that was past the age of retirement (Archbishop Gregory and he were close friends, and the Archbishop needed him just one more year). As a result, the priest would get too sick to say Daily Mass about once a month, and the Bishop granted the Deacon permission to have a CS (Daily Mass was held everyday except for Thursday and Sat. Thursday the priest had off, and so nothing was held). Now that we have a much younger priest, Daily Mass is once again held, with very few exceptions, except on Thursdays and Sat. when nothing is held (save for Saturday vigil).

 

[irishcolleen45]

I have to say that I am surprised that my parish which is a bit traditional is having Communion service on Thursday because it’s the priest’s day off. We have two priests but the pastor is recuperating from by pass surgery.

We have also had Communion service when both priests were away.

I have a question on the sign of peace. Because of the swine flu scare, the priest no longer tells us to offer the sign of peace to one another. Yet people continue to do so even though the priest goes right into the “Lamb of God”. I feel that it is disrespectful for people to offer the sign of peace at that point. Aren’t we supposed to follow the priest’s lead?

 

[japhy]

I have a question on the sign of peace. Because of the swine flu scare, the priest no longer tells us to offer the sign of peace to one another. Yet people continue to do so even though the priest goes right into the “Lamb of God”. I feel that it is disrespectful for people to offer the sign of peace at that point. Aren’t we supposed to follow the priest’s lead?

If the invitation to offer the Sign of Peace is not extended, then it shouldn’t be done. And it should certainly end when the Lamb of God begins.

 

[irishcolleen45]

If the invitation to offer the Sign of Peace is not extended, then it shouldn’t be done. And it should certainly end when the Lamb of God begins.

Thank you, japhy.

 

[Brendan]

FYI, the Diocese of Little Rock removes weekday Communion Services

Weekday Word and Communion services in the Diocese of Little Rock were discontinued Nov. 29 to order to comply with a Vatican document. …

The “ordinary and primary” of receiving the Eucharist is during Mass and should be distributed outside of Mass only in “extraordinary circumstances,” according to Father Wesley, who is also pastor of St. Elizabeth Church in Eureka Springs and St. Anne Church in Berryville.

“Although daily attendance at Mass and reception of Communion is a virtuous practice, it is not a requirement,” he wrote.

The Vatican’s instruction on the liturgy, “Redemptionis Sacramentum” (“The Sacrament of Redemption”) was published by the Congregation for Divine Worship in 2004. Paragraphs 162 to 167 pertain to celebrations in the absence of a priest.

arkansascatholic.org/article.php?id=1966

And here is the actual letter

dolr.org/offices/documents/wordandcommunionserviceguildelinesletter_09.pdf

With this being particularly profound

Sacrifice and Communion cannot be theologically separated, and therefore should not be practically separated except in extraordinary circumstances.

 

[irishcolleen45]

Thank you, Brendan. Most interesting. I’ll have to mention this to the Deacon.

 

[FrDavid96]

Thank you, Brendan. Most interesting. I’ll have to mention this to the Deacon.

I can’t help but wonder if there isn’t some connection with the fact that we’ve seen so many dioceses in the past year (let’s say calendar year 09) issuing prohibitions on these weekday Communion services. I have noticed both in-person and on the web a very wide distribution of dioceses in the US prohibiting weekday services and also tightening-down on abuses of SCAP (Sunday Celebrations in the Absence of a Priest), all in the past year.

I have not seen anything official which was made public to cause this, but I just cannot help but wonder if something was said about this to the US bishops, yet that hasn’t been made public. It seem to me that this is happening in too many places all at the same time to be mere coincidence.

Anyone out there have any information?

 

[ElizabethPH]

FYI, the Diocese of Little Rock removes weekday Communion Services

arkansascatholic.org/article.php?id=1966

And here is the actual letter

dolr.org/offices/documents/wordandcommunionserviceguildelinesletter_09.pdf

With this being particularly profound

This is my diocese and like I said in my other post recently the services stopped, at the beginning of the month I believe. I didn’t hear anything about this; some of us were speculating that it might be that we have a new priest. I suppose I should visit the diocesan web-site more often. I don’t get the Arkansas Catholic but you can read back issues on-line. Nothing was ever put in the bulletin. So thanks Brendon mystery solved…

 

[GwenL]

Folks, I’m new at this, still in RCIA, so patience, please.

Our parish has Mass every day at 9:00 a.m. (MTThF) or 5:30 p.m. (Weds) plus Sat vigil and four Masses on Sunday. We also have communion service at 5:30 p.m. every day (MTThF) and 9:00 a.m. (W), published in the bulletin. We’re not a remote mission, though the church building does look like a mission . There are at least 15 other Catholic churches within a 20 mile radius, so we’re really not isolated.

What, if anything, should I do? I haven’t a clue if the diocese knows. I wonder if they even know about the guidance from the Vatican.

Another question about the nature of the communion service. We have perpetual adoration from 6 a.m. until 10 p.m. daily; I have the hour from 5-6 p.m. on Monday . This week, I was at a loss when a woman walked in and started a communion service with about five parishoners. It was nearly as long as the mass had been that morning, and her “homily” was longer than the priest’s had been. I wanted to walk out, it was very uncomfortable and seemed very wrong. We have a priest, he celebrated mass that morning and would again the next morning–why do we need an amatuer substitute for five mobile, healthy looking adult parishoners? But I’m pretty new at this and figured maybe this was some ritual I just hadn’t learned yet. I couldn’t bring myself to participate (in the responses) and just stayed kneeling in prayer at the Tabernacle, apart from this group. Plus, I’m responsible to stay in the adoration area from 5 until the next adorer shows up, and couldn’t leave.

Maybe it was a “humilty test?” I get those a lot now…