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RCCDefender
Guest
Since the words of Jesus were completely ignored yesterday I feel the need to repost them today.
Quote:
And the people were bringing children to him that he might touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. When Jesus saw this he became indignant and said to them, “Let the children come to me; do not prevent them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these. Amen I say to you, whoever does not accept the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it.” Then he embraced them and blessed tham, placing his hands on them. -Mark 10:13-16
I’m sure not all those kids were perfectly well behaved, either.
(emphasis mine)
Quote:
And the people were bringing children to him that he might touch them, but the disciples rebuked them. When Jesus saw this he became indignant and said to them, “Let the children come to me; do not prevent them, for the kingdom of heaven belongs to such as these. Amen I say to you, whoever does not accept the kingdom of God like a child will not enter it.” Then he embraced them and blessed tham, placing his hands on them. -Mark 10:13-16
I’m sure not all those kids were perfectly well behaved, either.
(emphasis mine)
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netmilsmom
Guest
And that’s the point.
When a parent is trying, I have NO problem with a child being a child.
When a parent is oblivious, I have a problem.
You are making this all about the behavior of the children, but look at the posts again. NONE of this is about the children. They need to try to find out what is acceptable and what isn’t. It’s their God given job to find that out and push the envelope.
The whole problem is the adult in the situation. If that parent is not training the child to be a good adult someday, He/She is not doing the job God has given.
Making those who dislike negectful parents into people who don’t like kids is pretty strange to me, especially since most of us here have children.
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RCCDefender
Guest
That’s what I thought.
A lot. You don’t have any idea how you would have parented any other child with a different temperment. And, no, you don’t parent every child the same way, but you wouldn’t know about that would you?
Who would have guessed?
But, does that have anything to do with what a perfect parent you were? NO, you are not your grandmother. You have no idea how any other children you may have had would have behaved or how you would have dealt with a child who had problems. So, just because you are so perfect doesn’t give you the right to sit in judgement of every single other parent out there. You don’t know what’s going on behind the scenes, although you pretend to. I agree that there are some parents whose training leaves much to be desired, but your attitude, especially about a little child whispering and humming quietly to herself, shows you to be judgemental of any parent who isn’t as perfect as you. Jesus welcomed all the little children; He didn’t send the unruly ones away because they were bothering other people.
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RCCDefender
Guest
netmail(name removed by moderator),
So do you really think that Jesus said for the parents of the unruly kids to take them away and they could bring the kids back once they’ve trained them how to behave? Or that they should go into a box and watch and listen to Him from behind a piece of glass that reverberates all of the child’s screams right into the parent’s ears? That’s MY point.
The whole problem is not the parents. It’s a combination of parent and child. Some parents may not be training their children so much and still they come off looking like a perfect parent because they were blessed with a compliant child. Other parents may be doing the best they can with a child who’s temperament completely clashes with the parent’s. Still other parents may feel like they are drowning and are dealing the only way they know how - they may just be trying to make it through the day. The last thing this parent needs is to be stared down with the look of death when s/he is pretty much dead inside already, and the only thing keeping him/her going is receiving the body of Christ in the Eucharist. They need our prayers, not our judgement.
There is the school of thought that the less attention you pay to the unacceptable behavior the sooner it will go away. If the child sees that s/he can’t get the parent’s attention through negative behavior then s/he will stop doing the negative behavior. Believe it or not, many, many parents still adhere to this thinking.
We don’t know what category these parents or children fall into. Placing them all into one category is doing a disservice to everyone involved. You don’t know that they are neglectful parents, that’s just the category you decided to place them in. If you truly believe they are neglectful parents you should call Child Services.
So do you really think that Jesus said for the parents of the unruly kids to take them away and they could bring the kids back once they’ve trained them how to behave? Or that they should go into a box and watch and listen to Him from behind a piece of glass that reverberates all of the child’s screams right into the parent’s ears? That’s MY point.
The whole problem is not the parents. It’s a combination of parent and child. Some parents may not be training their children so much and still they come off looking like a perfect parent because they were blessed with a compliant child. Other parents may be doing the best they can with a child who’s temperament completely clashes with the parent’s. Still other parents may feel like they are drowning and are dealing the only way they know how - they may just be trying to make it through the day. The last thing this parent needs is to be stared down with the look of death when s/he is pretty much dead inside already, and the only thing keeping him/her going is receiving the body of Christ in the Eucharist. They need our prayers, not our judgement.
There is the school of thought that the less attention you pay to the unacceptable behavior the sooner it will go away. If the child sees that s/he can’t get the parent’s attention through negative behavior then s/he will stop doing the negative behavior. Believe it or not, many, many parents still adhere to this thinking.
We don’t know what category these parents or children fall into. Placing them all into one category is doing a disservice to everyone involved. You don’t know that they are neglectful parents, that’s just the category you decided to place them in. If you truly believe they are neglectful parents you should call Child Services.
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CarolAnnSFO
Guest
The normal wiggling, fidgeting, whispering, etc. of young children doesn’t bother me in the least; I generally barely notice it.
But, perhaps some of you could reread my earlier post in this thread, # 83 on Page 1 – am I the only one here who thinks the behavior I described there is totally excessive? I’m just curious, does “accepting the little children” mean we should ignore behavior like that?
But, perhaps some of you could reread my earlier post in this thread, # 83 on Page 1 – am I the only one here who thinks the behavior I described there is totally excessive? I’m just curious, does “accepting the little children” mean we should ignore behavior like that?
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RCCDefender
Guest
Perhaps the priest should speak to the parents after Mass and see what the whole situation is. Perhaps he has been doing this and you don’t know about it. Perhaps the parish should offer parenting classes several nights a week…
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netmilsmom
Guest
Our Lord listened to His Father’s words and perhaps you should too…
“He that spareth his rod hateth his son: but he that loveth him chasteneth him betimes.”
-- Proverbs 13: 24
Any parent that does not discipline his/her child is disobeying God’s directive.
I will say it again, children will try to do what they want.
It is a parent’s job to make them into people who are acceptable in society. If a parent is not training, it is not the child’s fault.
Any parent that does not discipline his/her child is disobeying God’s directive.
I will say it again, children will try to do what they want.
It is a parent’s job to make them into people who are acceptable in society. If a parent is not training, it is not the child’s fault.
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Tantum_ergo
Guest
It’s getting a bit hot here. . .
Every person is different. It is NOT always “the parent’s fault” and it is certainly not always “the child’s fault” if there are problems. The best behaved child will have an occasional meltdown; the best parent will have an off moment/day. And that is just for so-called “normal” parents and children. Throw in single parents, disabilities both physical and mental, and yes, throw in that there are some parents who are NOT doing the job and there are some children who for whatever reason are “bad seeds”–there are many, many explanations (not excuses, explanations) as to why children (and parents) ‘act up’. . .anywhere.
But please do not think that EVERY time you see a child start to cry or fuss in church that it’s because his parents don’t DISCIPLINE him or her properly. And don’t think that EVERY time you see a parent who doesn’t handle a child EXACTLY the way that you do/would that the parent is shirking his/her duty. (I KNOW that nobody on this forum REALLY does that kind of snap judgment but there is in all of us the tendency to see things from just “our own” point of view).
Instead, say a prayer, ask for patience, ask if you can HELP, and if things are really disruptive, be especially careful that you aren’t turning the person into the symptom (i.e., that you are not focusing JUST on the behavior issue so much that you forget this is an individual person with all sorts of positive as well as negative qualities inside).
God bless.
Every person is different. It is NOT always “the parent’s fault” and it is certainly not always “the child’s fault” if there are problems. The best behaved child will have an occasional meltdown; the best parent will have an off moment/day. And that is just for so-called “normal” parents and children. Throw in single parents, disabilities both physical and mental, and yes, throw in that there are some parents who are NOT doing the job and there are some children who for whatever reason are “bad seeds”–there are many, many explanations (not excuses, explanations) as to why children (and parents) ‘act up’. . .anywhere.
But please do not think that EVERY time you see a child start to cry or fuss in church that it’s because his parents don’t DISCIPLINE him or her properly. And don’t think that EVERY time you see a parent who doesn’t handle a child EXACTLY the way that you do/would that the parent is shirking his/her duty. (I KNOW that nobody on this forum REALLY does that kind of snap judgment but there is in all of us the tendency to see things from just “our own” point of view).
Instead, say a prayer, ask for patience, ask if you can HELP, and if things are really disruptive, be especially careful that you aren’t turning the person into the symptom (i.e., that you are not focusing JUST on the behavior issue so much that you forget this is an individual person with all sorts of positive as well as negative qualities inside).
God bless.
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netmilsmom
Guest
And again, no one is stating that when a child fusses or cries that the parent’s are not disciplining. However, if the child is allowed to continue the behavior and the parent ignores the behavior, is that teaching the child anything?
When a parent teaches a child how to behave, it is a gift.
When a parent ignores a child’s behavior, be it sitting in the aisle, talking out loud, or running around, the parent is not doing his/her job. It’s not a once situation but a multiple time thing. If any of the above is continued without action from the parent, it will snowball.
And we must remember, Little children/little problems - Big children/big problems.
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annb
Guest
My list: people who have nothing better to do at mass than be critical of others
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ciero
Guest
IMHO cry rooms are a big no-no! Infants who have been baptized are full members of the church and should be in the church with the rest of his/her family! So what if the child cries, it shows there is still life in the church!! I aslo have a problem with not confirming & communing these same infants as is done in the East, but thats another subject!!
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RCCDefender
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RCCDefender
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RCCDefender
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I DO listen to those words! The rod is definately not spared around my house! How do you know that I spare the rod? Jesus said, “Stop judging, lest ye be judged.”
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netmilsmom
Guest
While you may not “Spare the rod” in your own home, by condemning those who think that a continually disruptive child should be corrected, you become part of the problem.
I will say this again. A cry or babble of a child should not be looked down upon. Someone stating that children should be allowed to act like Holy Mass is a playground, is a problem.
I wish that DJRakowski would chime in. Of his four children, two of them have special needs. The problems that he has with parents who overlook or ignore behaviors, just make more problems for his Special Needs children. It’s amazing to me that some people think that letting a child “act like a child” should not bother anyone else.
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netmilsmom
Guest
I don’t know where your cry room is but ours is between the Main and the chapel. It is inside the church. In fact it’s far closer to the altar than some of the back pews.
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Faith1960
Guest
The passage says nothing about what we’ve been discussing. Of course you’re not sure if all those children were perfectly behaved since it doesn’t say, one way or another. One thing is fairly certain, though. If the kids were acting up, their parents wouldn’t have thought it was cute or shrugged it off with a “kids’ll be kids” attitude. Instead, they would’ve done something about it since parents were much more strict and insistant that children respect their elders back then. As my priest said this past weekend during his homily when he was talking about kids today VS when we were young, he said that in Biblical times and throughout the years, right up until fairly recently, the motto “kids should be seen and not heard” was the fashion. Not that I or anyone I know agrees with THAT philosophy either, but I doubt there were many, if any, parents back in Jesus’ day who would have tolerated the behaviors we see kids engaging in these days.
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finalcutjoe
Guest
Amen to that.
An interesting observation,
I’ve noticed, from Church to Church,
is the more prevalent lack of reverence in the congregation,
when there’s a lack of reverence by the servers,
ministers, and Priest….
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Faith1960
Guest
Are children who haven’t been baptised for one reason or another supposed to be elsewhere, apart from their families?
No one is talking about a crying baby, who, btw, should also be taken out if the crying goes into a non-stop screaming fit. We’re talking about kids who are 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10 years old who are using Mass as their own personal playground while mommy looks at them, beaming with pride.
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