Mass of Chrism

[Phemie]

Just returned from the Mass of Chrism where I accepted the Holy Oils for our parish and two missions.

Imagine my surprised at seeing 2 female EMHCs as ministers of the cup with 14 priests in the sanctuary. Imagine my further suprise to find lay people consuming the remainder of the Hosts and purifying the vessels in the sacristy after Mass.

Oh, and nobody kneels at Consecration at the Cathedral.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Just returned from the Mass of Chrism where I accepted the Holy Oils for our parish and two missions.

Imagine my surprised at seeing 2 female EMHCs as ministers of the cup with 14 priests in the sanctuary. Imagine my further suprise to find lay people consuming the remainder of the Hosts and purifying the vessels in the sacristy after Mass.

Oh, and nobody kneels at Consecration at the Cathedral.

I assume that you are a priest or Deacon. A layperson should not be receiving the Holy Oils for a parish. The oils cannot be used by any lay person, in any way, so in my opinion they should never be in the possession of a lay person.
If there were enough Priests and Deacons for Holy Communion there should not have been any laypersons.

Nor should they have been purifying with that many priests available.

 

[benedictgal]

Why on earth is your Chrism Mass so early? If it isn’t possible to have it on Holy Thursday, it should be held either on Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday of Holy Week. What gives here?

Your Cathedral sounds scary.

 

[NetNuncio]

Why on earth is your Chrism Mass so early? If it isn’t possible to have it on Holy Thursday, it should be held either on Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday of Holy Week. What gives here?

Your Cathedral sounds scary.

I agree. However, I am not familiar with the General Instruction for Canada, where the OP seems to be from.

 

[Phemie]

Why on earth is your Chrism Mass so early? If it isn’t possible to have it on Holy Thursday, it should be held either on Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday of Holy Week. What gives here?

Your Cathedral sounds scary.

Leaving it that late we risk the chance that, due to weather, the priests will not be able to return to their parishes in time. Attending the Chrism Mass involves flying for some of our people and driving hundreds of miles in isolated areas for others.

Since there are very few, if any, deacons in our diocese, that was not an option. Lay people received the oils for most of the parishes - some accompanied by their pastors.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Leaving it that late we risk the chance that, due to weather, the priests will not be able to return to their parishes in time. Attending the Chrism Mass involves flying for some of our people and driving hundreds of miles in isolated areas for others.

Since there are very few, if any, deacons in our diocese, that was not an option. Lay people received the oils for most of the parishes - some accompanied by their pastors.

I still believe allowing a layperson to “receive” the Holy Oils for a parish is crossing the line between lay and clergy. If a pastor was present he should have received them if not a neighboring parish pastor could have, or they could have been sent in some other way by the diocese. Understanding that they might take a few weeks to get there in some places.

 

[THurifer2]

Why on earth is your Chrism Mass so early? If it isn’t possible to have it on Holy Thursday, it should be held either on Monday, Tuesday or Wednesday of Holy Week. What gives here?

Your Cathedral sounds scary.

The chrisim Mass in my diocese was this week as well. Our Benedict XVI appointed bishop who is known for his orthodoxy held it this week too. But our diocese is covers over 12000 square miles AND the Cathedral is on the absolute very edge (mississippi river) so some priest have over 160-180 miles to travel one direction to get to the mass.

 

[NetNuncio]

“While the rubrics indicate that this Mass is usually celebrated in the morning, indication is given that if it is difficult for the clergy and people to gather then the Chrism Mass may be anticipated on another day near Easter (CM, no.3). Both of these rubrics appeared in the text of the blessing in Appendix II of our present Sacramentary. They also appear in no. 275 of the Ceremonial of Bishops.”

usccb.org/liturgy/chrismmass.shtml

I suppose “another day near Easter” is open to interpretation.

 

[LRThunder]

“While the rubrics indicate that this Mass is usually celebrated in the morning, indication is given that if it is difficult for the clergy and people to gather then the Chrism Mass may be anticipated on another day near Easter (CM, no.3). Both of these rubrics appeared in the text of the blessing in Appendix II of our present Sacramentary. They also appear in no. 275 of the Ceremonial of Bishops.”

usccb.org/liturgy/chrismmass.shtml

I suppose “another day near Easter” is open to interpretation.

My diocese has the Mass of Chrism on Tuesday of Holy Week.

 

[PaixGioiaAmor]

The chrisim Mass in my diocese was this week as well. Our Benedict XVI appointed bishop who is known for his orthodoxy held it this week too. But our diocese is covers over 12000 square miles AND the Cathedral is on the absolute very edge (mississippi river) so some priest have over 160-180 miles to travel one direction to get to the mass.

Wait, did you end up going over to Lincoln? Or are you still in my friend’s diocese?

 

[John_Lilburne]

I still believe allowing a layperson to “receive” the Holy Oils for a parish is crossing the line between lay and clergy. If a pastor was present he should have received them if not a neighboring parish pastor could have, or they could have been sent in some other way by the diocese. Understanding that they might take a few weeks to get there in some places.

I disagree, I do not have a problem with lay people collecting the blessed oil. I do not think there is any documentation to support your position. If you know of any, please say so.

Lay people carry the blessed oils in the actual ceremony.
“27. After the final blessing of the Mass, the bishop puts incense in the censer, and the procession to the sacristy is arranged.
The blessed oils are carried by the ministers immediately after the cross …”. [Roman Missal, Catholic Book Publishing Co., New York, 1985, Appendix II, page 1021…].

Are you saying it is OK to send the blessed oil by post, but not by a lay person? Would you feel better if the oil were packaged in such a way so that the priest tell if it had been tampered with? It seems absurd to me to suggest that lay people will think they can perform a sacrament of annointing of the sick because they have this custody of the oil.

Canon 847, §2 has: “The parish priest is to obtain the holy oils from his own Bishop and keep them carefully in fitting custody.” But I am not aware of anything more explicit about what is fitting custody if the priest is not at the Chrism Mass.

 

[benedictgal]

When I planned my first Chrism Mass, the rector and I sat down to discuss logistics. The bishop scheduled the dinner for the priests and soon thereafter, the Chrism Mass was celebrated. That Chrism Mass (and all of the others since then) was celebrated on Tuesday of Holy Week.

What I proposed to do was to withhold desert and coffee until after the Mass. The priests would then retire back to the banquet room and then we would distribute the oils there. We also had a sign-in sheet so that the priest and/or deacon would be held accountable for the oils that were picked up per parish.

The rector and the bishop were in agreement. So, after the Mass, all of the priests went back to the banquet hall, I had my sign-in sheet ready and the oils were distributed. The bishop said that it was one of the most organized distributions he had seen.

Oddly enough, only one lay person came to pick up the oils, and that was for one of the mission churches. However, all of the rest who picked up the oils were clergy.

Not to toot our horn, but, even though some of the priests grumbled about not having their cheesecake and coffee, everyone wound up pleased. And I was exhausted.

 

[Phemie]

When I planned my first Chrism Mass, the rector and I sat down to discuss logistics. The bishop scheduled the dinner for the priests and soon thereafter, the Chrism Mass was celebrated. That Chrism Mass (and all of the others since then) was celebrated on Tuesday of Holy Week.

What I proposed to do was to withhold desert and coffee until after the Mass. The priests would then retire back to the banquet room and then we would distribute the oils there. We also had a sign-in sheet so that the priest and/or deacon would be held accountable for the oils that were picked up per parish.

The rector and the bishop were in agreement. So, after the Mass, all of the priests went back to the banquet hall, I had my sign-in sheet ready and the oils were distributed. The bishop said that it was one of the most organized distributions he had seen.

Oddly enough, only one lay person came to pick up the oils, and that was for one of the mission churches. However, all of the rest who picked up the oils were clergy.

Not to toot our horn, but, even though some of the priests grumbled about not having their cheesecake and coffee, everyone wound up pleased. And I was exhausted.

At this Chrism Mass every parish was called by name and each, but one, had lay people receiving the oils (some with their pastor, some not because they have no pastor or their pastor wasn’t there) then remaining at the front of the church until the recessional when we all recessed following the cross.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

I disagree, I do not have a problem with lay people collecting the blessed oil. I do not think there is any documentation to support your position. If you know of any, please say so.

Lay people carry the blessed oils in the actual ceremony.
“27. After the final blessing of the Mass, the bishop puts incense in the censer, and the procession to the sacristy is arranged.
The blessed oils are carried by the ministers immediately after the cross …”. [Roman Missal, Catholic Book Publishing Co., New York, 1985, Appendix II, page 1021…].

Are you saying it is OK to send the blessed oil by post, but not by a lay person? Would you feel better if the oil were packaged in such a way so that the priest tell if it had been tampered with? It seems absurd to me to suggest that lay people will think they can perform a sacrament of annointing of the sick because they have this custody of the oil.

Canon 847, §2 has: “The parish priest is to obtain the holy oils from his own Bishop and keep them carefully in fitting custody.” But I am not aware of anything more explicit about what is fitting custody if the priest is not at the Chrism Mass.

No, I don’t believe that the Holy Oils should be sent by postal mail and no I am unaware of any documentation that forbids a layperson from receiving them. It is just my opinion that they should not, especially when the pastor is present. (as someone noted)

 

[Phemie]

No, I don’t believe that the Holy Oils should be sent by postal mail and no I am unaware of any documentation that forbids a layperson from receiving them. It is just my opinion that they should not, especially when the pastor is present. (as someone noted)

Then how else but mail would you propose they be sent? Two years ago I went to the Chrism Mass on my own dime and when the bishop saw that I was there he asked me to take the oils back for 5 parishes. That year the oils weren’t presented but were picked up in the sacristy after the Mass. They were mailed to those parishes that didn’t have a representative to pick them up (IOW, most of the parishes in our diocese at that time because of the exorbitant cost of sending a rep).

Last year no one from our parish went to the Mass and the oils were sent by mail.

This year 3 parishes chipped in to send me to the Chrism mass at a cost of $1000. Otherwise the oils would again have been mailed to us. Nobody is going to deliver them.

 

[Mintaka]

Those of us who live within a reasonable drive of our bishops and cathedrals should be feeling very thankful after reading this!

We do what we can do. There are a lot of adaptations possible to fit local conditions; not every procedure different from the norm is an abuse.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

Then how else but mail would you propose they be sent? Two years ago I went to the Chrism Mass on my own dime and when the bishop saw that I was there he asked me to take the oils back for 5 parishes. That year the oils weren’t presented but were picked up in the sacristy after the Mass. They were mailed to those parishes that didn’t have a representative to pick them up (IOW, most of the parishes in our diocese at that time because of the exorbitant cost of sending a rep).

Last year no one from our parish went to the Mass and the oils were sent by mail.

This year 3 parishes chipped in to send me to the Chrism mass at a cost of $1000. Otherwise the oils would again have been mailed to us. Nobody is going to deliver them.

I didn’t say they couldn’t be mailed, but I would think that they would have used a secure service like Fed-?. If they sent you for $1K why couldn’t they have sent one of the priests?

 

[Phemie]

I didn’t say they couldn’t be mailed, but I would think that they would have used a secure service like Fed-?. If they sent you for $1K why couldn’t they have sent one of the priests?

We only have one priest, who covers two parishes, and a dying parishioner in each one. One died before I got back. The priest from the third parish would have cost more since he first would first have had to fly in to our community and then to the Chrism Mass – $1600 with hotel & car rental – and then hopefully be able to get back to his mission for Easter, not a given since flights to that community are often on weather hold for days and sometimes weeks. Much easier to send me or any other lay person who could get the time off to go.

 

[Br.Rich_SFO]

We only have one priest, who covers two parishes, and a dying parishioner in each one. One died before I got back. The priest from the third parish would have cost more since he first would first have had to fly in to our community and then to the Chrism Mass – $1600 with hotel & car rental – and then hopefully be able to get back to his mission for Easter, not a given since flights to that community are often on weather hold for days and sometimes weeks. Much easier to send me or any other lay person who could get the time off to go.

And that is a good reason.

 

[Phemie]

And that is a good reason.

Just thought I’d mention that at this time of year we either fly or drive 1500 miles through 3 other provinces + 2 ferry crossings (total time on water, 8 hrs) to get to our cathedral.