Mass Preference--The Greatest of These is Love

[Icarus210]

Just to clarify; I was comparing the “High Anglican service” and the other protestant churches I had been to, to the TLM… not the NO…

The reference to the NO was I dont think I would have seen any reason to come to the point of conversion, if the service I went to was exactly the same as my old ones. Its the “protestantising” of the mass which is stopping conversions… and that is NOT saying its not valid… it just “looks” the same… Catholics KNOW the difference… protestants dont. You dont convert the converted do you.

 

[JKirkLVNV]

Just to clarify; I was comparing the “High Anglican service” and the other protestant churches I had been to, to the TLM… not the NO…

The reference to the NO was I dont think I would have seen any reason to come to the point of conversion, if the service I went to was exactly the same as my old ones. Its the “protestantising” of the mass which is stopping conversions… and that is NOT saying its not valid… it just “looks” the same… Catholics KNOW the difference… protestants dont. You dont convert the converted do you.

They look the same because they have common liturgical antededents.

 

[Cat]

Icarus210, there are certainly Protestant worship services that are very simliar to the Mass. These Mainline churches are the oldest of the Protestant churches. It is not that the Catholic Church is “Protestant.” Just the opposite. It is the Protestant churches that are still Catholic.

Also, if you were to visit these churches, you would be a rarity, because Mainlines are LOSING members at an alarming rate.

The fastest-growing non-Catholic ecclesial communities, including the evangelicals, Pentecostals, fundamentalists, and especially the Non-denominationals, have services which do not in any way, shape, or form, resemble Catholic Mass.

In a typical worship service at one of these churches, much of the service consists of “praise and worship,” which can last for twenty minutes or more. Perhaps you have seen this in Catholic Masses; I am new to the Church and I have NOT seen ANY Catholic Mass do singing, praying in tongues, and raising hands for TWENTY MINUTES. Have you?

The other major part of the worship service of these new non-Catholic ecclesial communities is the “message.” In many worship services, the “message” might not even be preached by a pastor. It might be a drama, a DVD by a pastor, teacher (not necessarily ordained) or a missionary. It might be a children’s choir presentation, or a concert by a rock band.

Again, I am new to the Catholic Church, but I have not seen any “homilies” during Mass done like this. Have you?

You think that Catholic Masses are becoming “protestantized?” I think you have no experience with modern non-Catholic ecclesial communities.

I think Catholic Mass is a LOOOOOONG way away from modern Protestantism, and I DO have experience with non-Catholic ecclesial communities.

YOU, as someone who loves the TLM, see the NO as “modern” and “irreverent.” But that’s NOT the way the “Protestant” sees it at all!

Try to climb into their shoes. Try to remember that many of them haven’t heard an “organ” except in old 1960s rock music.

Many of them have NEVER seen vestments or even a clerical collar.

Many of them have NEVER EVER heard the Nicene Creed.

Many of them have NEVER, EVER heard a prayer READ OUT OF A BOOK, other than the Lord’s Prayer.

Many of them have never seen a missalette or even a church bulletin (many modern non-Catholic churches have stopped using bulletins).

Try to remember that many of them haven’t even seen a “Communion service” but once a year, and often that is extremely informal (juice and crackers on a table at the back of the multi-purpose room which serves as a sanctuary, fellowship hall, and gymasium).

**As I said in my OP, when a non-Catholic Christian from one of these “new” non-Catholic sects comes to a Mass–a “modern” Mass, or NO Mass–the whole thing is extremely formal and reverent to them. **

When some of you say that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is being “protestantized” and you cite examples like use of “folk” music–I just want to laugh! With all due respect, I don’t think you know what you’re talking about!

**Folk music hasn’t been used in most non-Catholic ecclesial communities since the 1970s!!! ** Nowadays, many of these non-Catholic churches use full ROCK BANDS! Or symphony ORCHESTRAS–I’m not kidding!

Or in most churches, “soundtracks” are used instead of live music.

Music like Marty Haugen writes would be considered ANCIENT OLDIE GEEZER STUFF in most of the Protestant churches that I attended!!! I hear Catholics talk about “new” music, and I keep wondering what they are talking about!

When I first started attending Mass and heard Marty Haugen music, do you know what my reaction was?! I will tell you. I said–honest to God!–“Oh, it’s so nice to hear old, traditional reverent music again!”

My suggestion is–if you think that the Catholic Mass is becoming “protestantized,” you need to visit a few modern non-Catholic ecclesial communities and see what “protestantism” has become today. THEN come back to this Board and talk about the “protestantizing” of the Mass.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised to see that the NO Mass is actually very reverent and traditional compared to many modern non-Catholic ecclesial community “worship services.”

It’s all about PERSPECTIVE. You are seeing the NO Mass from the perspective of a traditionalist Catholic rather than a modern Protestant.

As for conversions–when I came to Catholic Mass, I was looking for “tradition” and “reverence,” and I found it in the NO. Compared to what I was used to in the Protestant church, NO was positively ancient and I loved it and was drawn to Christ in the Blessed Sacrament through this beautiful Mass. I think a lot of Protestants, especially those from the modern Protestant church, find the NO Mass very traditional and reverent, and are drawn to the Catholic Church through it.

 

[KathleenElsie]

Icarus210, there are certainly Protestant worship services that are very simliar to the Mass. These Mainline churches are the oldest of the Protestant churches. It is not that the Catholic Church is “Protestant.” Just the opposite. It is the Protestant churches that are still Catholic. No these protestant churches disagreed with the Catholic Church and then moderinized. Your statement could be turned around to “it is the Catholic NO that is now Protistant”

Also, if you were to visit these churches, you would be a rarity, because Mainlines are LOSING members at an alarming rate. If the service is simular to the “mainline” and people leaving are looking to reverence why go to what you alread have?

The fastest-growing non-Catholic ecclesial communities, including the evangelicals, Pentecostals, fundamentalists, and especially the Non-denominationals, have services which do not in any way, shape, or form, resemble Catholic Mass. Which Mass?

In a typical worship service at one of these churches, much of the service consists of “praise and worship,” which can last for twenty minutes or more. Perhaps you have seen this in Catholic Masses; I am new to the Church and I have NOT seen ANY Catholic Mass do singing, praying in tongues, and raising hands for TWENTY MINUTES. Have you? Yes there is a group that worships this way. Only within the NO.

The other major part of the worship service of these new non-Catholic ecclesial communities is the “message.” In many worship services, the “message” might not even be preached by a pastor. (this happens in the NO also, it is not actually allowed, but still happens) It might be a drama, a DVD by a pastor, teacher (not necessarily ordained) or a missionary. It might be a children’s choir presentation, or a concert by a rock band. (polka Mass, folk Mass, youth Mass, childrens Mass in the NO)

Again, I am new to the Catholic Church, but I have not seen any “homilies” during Mass done like this. Have you? (yes:blush: )

You think that Catholic Masses are becoming “protestantized?” I think you have no experience with modern non-Catholic ecclesial communities. (my husband said that the Mass in our NO parish reminds him of his Baptist congregation)

I think Catholic Mass is a LOOOOOONG way away from modern Protestantism, and I DO have experience with non-Catholic ecclesial communities. (long way from the modern Protestation but very very close to the “old” Protistant communities)

YOU, as someone who loves the TLM, see the NO as “modern” and “irreverent.” But that’s NOT the way the “Protestant” sees it at all! (somehow since the 1960’s we have made it important as to how the Protistants see us . They don’t care how we see them but we “must” care how they see us )

 

[KathleenElsie]

Try to climb into their shoes. Try to remember that many of them haven’t heard an “organ” except in old 1960s rock music.

Many of them have NEVER seen vestments or even a clerical collar.

Many of them have NEVER EVER heard the Nicene Creed.

Many of them have NEVER, EVER heard a prayer READ OUT OF A BOOK, other than the Lord’s Prayer.

Many of them have never seen a missal or even a church bulletin (many modern non-Catholic churches have stopped using bulletins).

I don’t think the lack of or inclusion of an organ, a bulletin, or vestments alone is what brings people to the Holy Mother Church.

Try to remember that many of them haven’t even seen a “Communion service” but once a year, and often that is extremely informal (juice and crackers on a table at the back of the multi-purpose room which serves as a sanctuary, fellowship hall, and gymnasium).

If the true meaning of the Mass is not preached and reverence shown for the actural “BODY AND BLOOD” of Christ is not emphasizes then the understanding of the Mass is not there.

**As I said in my OP, when a non-Catholic Christian from one of these “new” non-Catholic sects comes to a Mass–a “modern” Mass, or NO Mass–the whole thing is extremely formal and reverent to them. **
**(**so there is a need to water down the teachings and traditions to make the teaching and traditions easier to swallow like bad tasting medicine?)

When some of you say that the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass is being “protestantized” and you cite examples like use of “folk” music–I just want to laugh! With all due respect, I don’t think you know what you’re talking about!

(been there done that, not proud of my time away from the Church. But, I have been there)

**Folk music hasn’t been used in most non-Catholic ecclesial communities since the 1970s!!! **Nowadays, many of these non-Catholic churches use full ROCK BANDS! Or symphony ORCHESTRAS–I’m not kidding!

Folk music is just a term. But, it was used in the early days of the change from the TLM to the NO.

Or in most churches, “soundtracks” are used instead of live music.

Music like Marty Haugen writes would be considered ANCIENT OLDIE GEEZER STUFF in most of the Protestant churches that I attended!!! I hear Catholics talk about “new” music, and I keep wondering what they are talking about!

Again I ask because the non-Catholics have gone so far from tradition. Does the Catholic Church have to slide in the same direction?

When I first started attending Mass and heard Marty Haugen music, do you know what my reaction was?! I will tell you. I said–honest to God!–“Oh, it’s so nice to hear old, traditional reverent music again!”

See above.

My suggestion is–if you think that the Catholic Mass is becoming “protestantized,” you need to visit a few modern non-Catholic ecclesial communities and see what “protestantism” has become today. THEN come back to this Board and talk about the “protestantizing” of the Mass.

See two above.

I think you will be pleasantly surprised to see that the NO Mass is actually very reverent and traditional compared to many modern non-Catholic ecclesial community “worship services.”

Just saddened that the Protestants have gone so far astray.

It’s all about PERSPECTIVE. You are seeing the NO Mass from the perspective of a traditionalist Catholic rather than a modern Protestant.

How should we see the Mass of the Holy Catholic Church?

As for conversions–when I came to Catholic Mass, I was looking for “tradition” and “reverence,” and I found it in the NO. Compared to what I was used to in the Protestant church, NO was positively ancient and I loved it and was drawn to Christ in the Blessed Sacrament through this beautiful Mass. I think a lot of Protestants, especially those from the modern Protestant church, find the NO Mass very traditional and reverent, and are drawn to the Catholic Church through it.

.

IMHO We are the Catholic Church and these teachings do not and should not change so others are more comfortable. The truth remain the truth and that is a fact. The “graying” (in the form of no right or wrong) in the world today does not make the lessening of reverence right. It just saddens many of us. All rites are licit as long as they are reverent and follow the rubics.

 

[Cat]

Kathleen Elsie, did I say anywhere in my post that the Mass must change to accomodate non-Catholics?

No, I did not say that. If I gave you that impression, then I am sorry. I have expressed myself poorly. Forgive me.

The Holy Father has declared that the NO is the “ordinary” and the TLM is the “extraordinary.”

The NO Mass has the full support of the Pope and the Magisterium. The NO is not a “watering down” of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. It is the real thing. Catholics who prefer the NO are not getting an inferior Mass.

The point of my thread is to point out that Catholics must demonstrate love to fellow Catholics when it comes to Mass preference. Some of us like TLM, and some of us like NO, and some of us don’t care one way or the other. We’re all practicing obedience to the Church, even though our personal preferences are different.

You gave several examples of “protestantisms” of the Holy Mass. Is this a frequent thing? How many Catholic Churches have you seen this at? I’ve only been Catholic for three years now, and I have visited a few dozen Catholic churches (travelling to several different states). I’ve never seen anything like what you describe.

It seems that some Catholics are always discovering these weird churches and practices, while I have yet to discover anything that varies much from the very non-abusive NO Mass in my home parish.

(There are some minor variations; e.g., one parish we visited dismissed the children before the readings, and then they came back for the Liturgy of the Eucharist. And in one parish, the Air Force Base in Colorado Springs, the parishioners all joined hands during the Our Father, and you really didn’t have a choice in the matter.)

Where do all of you live who find these weird Masses?! I don’t ever want to move where you are! I guess I am very blessed to live in such a conservative part of the U.S. where the NO masses are “by the book!”

 

[paramedicgirl]

The point of my thread is to point out that Catholics must demonstrate love to fellow Catholics when it comes to Mass preference. Some of us like TLM, and some of us like NO, and some of us don’t care one way or the other. We’re all practicing obedience to the Church, even though our personal preferences are different.

Yesterday, my priest was talking to me about learning Latin so he could offer a TLM at our parish. We also discussed the importance of educating the laity so that they fully understand the rubrics of the 1962 Missal will be very different from what they were used to. When I mentioned that people would have to adjust to the lack of active laity involvement in order to have a successful TLM, the priest agreed, but one lady told us that we would NEVER have a Mass that had no lay participation, and that I was living in the dark ages and she accused me of spiritual pride in front of the priest.

Funny thing was, the priest brought it up. I never even asked him to offer a TLM. Is the kind of demonstration of fellow love you are warning against?

 

[jj2011]

Although firmly on the traditional side I want to defend Cat here. As a convert she has a right to expect Catholics to handle their differences like adults without all this bickering.

One would have to have been Catholic three to four decades ago to remember the brutal suppression of the TLM and the intriguing of the Liturgy Establishment to keep it suppressed.

Now Benedict XVI has made it clear that this was wrong. Paramedic’s priest gets it. I remember as well as anyone here the bitterness of the past, and the atrocities against the Roman Rite.

We should not however carry that bitterness into discussions with converts who have no guilt for that.

 

[DonnaG]

I think that the church is made up all sorts of people, with all kinds of talents, and personallities.
I grew up at a time when the Latin mass was what was said. I learned it, I understood it, I even took Latin in school. I could drop in at a Latin Mass today and I am sure I would remember most all the prayers. I also remember there were people attending that had no idea what the Latin words meant, so they came and prayed the Rosary all through Mass for that was the best they could do.
Some people play the piano, some the Organ, some the violin, the cello ( I did) but some play the guitar and want to use this talent in their worship.
I think we are so blessed to have so many people with so many varied talents willing to share them.
I love them all.

 

[BobP123]

I don’t think the lack of or inclusion of an organ, a bulletin, or vestments alone is what brings people to the Holy Mother Church.

Believe it or not, before I discovered the TLM had been resurrected, I actually did look for churches with good pipe organ music and they weren’t easy to find. The Protestant Churches had us beat there, having more recitals for one thing.

Now, of course, I realize I used to go to Church for the wrong reasons. The music doesn’t make it the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. But it certainly affects our moods during the service a lot.

 

[ncjohn]

Funny thing was, the priest brought it up. I never even asked him to offer a TLM. Is the kind of demonstration of fellow love you are warning against?

I think this is the lack of charity that she is warning against. And truthfully we do indeed see it coming from both sides.

I don’t know about you, but I am weary from it and would truly love to see us all able to put this stuff aside and rejoice that we have the ability to pray as we’re called to.

I for one don’t see a need for one side to “win”, at the cost of the other “losing”. I don’t see a need for one preference to be squashed, as the TLM was for too long, in order for the other to flourish. To me we are finally both winners and should be excited for each other.

As someone noted recently, some people have no way to define who they are other than by what they are opposed to. I would hope though that most of us can get by that and be defined as part of the Body of Christ in fellowship with other such members of the Body.

Peace,

 

[paramedicgirl]

I think this is the lack of charity that she is warning against. And truthfully we do indeed see it coming from both sides.

I don’t know about you, but I am weary from it and would truly love to see us all able to put this stuff aside and rejoice that we have the ability to pray as we’re called to.

I for one don’t see a need for one side to “win”, at the cost of the other “losing”. I don’t see a need for one preference to be squashed, as the TLM was for too long, in order for the other to flourish. To me we are finally both winners and should be excited for each other.

As someone noted recently, some people have no way to define who they are other than by what they are opposed to. I would hope though that most of us can get by that and be defined as part of the Body of Christ in fellowship with other such members of the Body.

Peace,

Yeah, me too. I wish the people who are feeling so threatened would just relax and realize that they will always have their Mass, and stop begrudging the trad Catholics what the Pope has handed down to us in his MP.

I haven’t asked for the TLM at my parish, because I’m afraid that people will impose their own set of rubrics on that Mass, just like the lady who said there will definitely be lay readers at it if we ever have one. I’m content to keeping driving the day trip once a month to a Mass I know follows the rubrics, rather than have the power trippers at my parish ruin the TLM by forcing their novelties and innovations on it.

 

[Cat]

paramedic girl, I can’t speak for everyone, of course, but I think it’s terrible that anyone would criticize people who prefer the traditional Mass that the Holy Father himself has pronounced good and has encouraged parishes to offer.

I don’t know enough about TLM to know whether lay readers are allowed. I think it’s really bad when a lay person tries to write their own rubrics for a Mass. However, if lay readers are allowed by the Church in the TLM, well, I’d say go for it. Isn’t it better than not having the TLM at all?

I don’t think you should give up. I think you should continue to petition the Church in a cooperative way for the Mass of your choice. There are probably others who don’t have the courage to speak up, and you are speaking for them.

paramedic girl, many Protestant churches, including ones that I have been part of, have been split in half by Music Wars. These are ugly conflicts that hurt a lot of people, especially older people. Often what happens is that the modern musicians march in and announced (usually with the support of a newly-hired music pastor) that they are taking over the church. Out goes the organ, the piano, the sanctuary choir, the children’s choir, and often, even the teen choir (if the church has one), and in comes the rock band and rock music, AKA the “contemporary” service. The “Traditional” service isn’t “traditional” at all, but consists of Praise and Worship choruses led by a Praise and Worship team.

When I moved back to my hometown after a ten year absence, I returned for a few years to my childhood church. I asked several of the older people why they didn’t sing solos anymore, and they told me that they weren’t welcome anymore.

Many of my mother’s friends just quietly quit and joined other churches where traditional hymns and a traditional order of worship were still practiced.

So you see, paramedic girl and others, I am very used to seeing conflict in church over worship practices. I know how you feel, having all your traditions tossed out. It’s awful. You feel betrayed by a Church that you’ve given your heart to. You feel like a stranger in your own home. Right?

What I DIDN’T see in the Protestant churches was a “Holy Father” to bring everyone together with pronouncements about what is and isn’t appropriate for worship in church. Thank God our wise and loving Pope has declared that both the NO and the TLM are appropriate Masses for our Lord. Thank GOD we can be one in Christ, even though we practice our Mass in different ways, but BOTH of these ways are sanctioned by our beautiful Church!

 

[BobP123]

I haven’t asked for the TLM at my parish, because I’m afraid that people will impose their own set of rubrics on that Mass, just like the lady who said there will definitely be lay readers at it if we ever have one.

PMG, I wouldn’t let that stop you. There really is/was nothing to stop the liberal forces before for setting their own rubrics, what should change now except perhaps the TLM is getting a lot of press these days? But the press should die down, and it will be down to business. The seeds have been sown and the Pope will see to it that they grow good crops. If over 2/3rds of the world’s Cardinals can trust him enough to elect him Pope, then so should we.

 

[paramedicgirl]

paramedic girl, I can’t speak for everyone, of course, but I think it’s terrible that anyone would criticize people who prefer the traditional Mass that the Holy Father himself has pronounced good and has encouraged parishes to offer.

I don’t know enough about TLM to know whether lay readers are allowed. I think it’s really bad when a lay person tries to write their own rubrics for a Mass. However, if lay readers are allowed by the Church in the TLM, well, I’d say go for it. Isn’t it better than not having the TLM at all?

I don’t think you should give up. I think you should continue to petition the Church in a cooperative way for the Mass of your choice. There are probably others who don’t have the courage to speak up, and you are speaking for them.

Yeah, well this lady is a thorn in everyone’s side. No one will go to the vocal recitation of the rosary because she has to pray the rosary HER way, at the expense of attendance. The priest told me today that she does want a Latin Mass, but he said she wants to have it HER way (laity involvement) She just ruined a procession that we did for the feast of Corpus Christi, by butting in and ordering everyone around so that no one knew what to do anymore.

Most people avoid her because she bullies everyone, and she has made every priest we have ever had leave our parish in tears (except our current priest; he handles her very well.)

Anyway, our priest says he will train for the TLM and offer it according to the way the Bishop of our Diocese wants it done. That doesn’t mean that he won’t get interference from this lady. She tries to rule everything and has a habit of just barging right in to do her own thing. Obedience is not a word in her vocabulary.

 

[Icarus210]

Thanks Kathleen for that very full answer… I couldnt have done better.

To Cat.
The difference between the mass and a protestant service is like drinking a very rare Cognac to swilling a glass of Mud.

Not because of the “grandeur” of either… ITS THE SACRIFICE of the Mass. I knew this the first time I experienced a Mass at the tender age of 50.

The term “protestanising” the mass isnt in the slightest way saying it isnt valid or less Catholic: It’s implying that Man thinks he has to change something to make people come to the Mass… well that is Christ’s job, He calls the sinners… all we have to (and should) do is preserve His Sacrifice in a way that has been successful for 1700 or more years. And in those years, it has been attacked from inside and out continiously but STILL survives… why? because Christ’s power comes through every time His Body is bloodlessly re-sacrificed on the altar. A priest told us once in the sermon, We are actually transformed in time to the foot of Calvary when we sacrifice the Mass… and I agree.

That is the power of the Mass.

So NO protestant “lookalike” service, can ever come close to the true Mass.

I may have gone to two unusual Novus Order masses and they may not be like what you have, but both times, the priest was wearing a open collar shirt and slacks, the “helpers” were wearing jeans, the readings were given by other people. Yes the mass was valid… but oh, was it was so pedestrian compared to the TLM… I never went back.

 

[jj2011]

paramedic girl, I can’t speak for everyone, of course, but I think it’s terrible that anyone would criticize people who prefer the traditional Mass that the Holy Father himself has pronounced good and has encouraged parishes to offer.

I don’t know enough about TLM to know whether lay readers are allowed. I think it’s really bad when a lay person tries to write their own rubrics for a Mass. However, if lay readers are allowed by the Church in the TLM, well, I’d say go for it. Isn’t it better than not having the TLM at all?

Actually the SSPX in France has, or used to have, laymen in cassocks read the lections in French. There would be no problem with doing this here, although trads will not accept women lectors.

 

[sprout]

If you grew up Catholic with the formal, traditional TLM, you will perceive the “new Mass” as an irreverent travesty and find the rock music loud and distracting, the informal “homilies” irreverent, and vernacular language ugly and not appropriate for the seriousness of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass.

In my case I grew up with the TLM and I don’t perceive the Novus Ordo as an irreverent travesty.

Most of us welcomed the Novus Ordo with open arms as a “breath of fresh air”. As a child I was bored to tears at Mass and spent my time daydreaming, staring at the statues and stained glass windows, picking on my little brother, etc. So that by the time the changes to the vernacular and music happened, when I was a teen, I was more than thrilled.

Now that I have returned after a long absence I have a more mature appreciation for and understanding of the Mass.

I love the TLM for it’s quiet reverence, there’s a “hush” there the way there’s a “hush” when someone really important walks into the room. I love the music - sacred polyphony and gregorian chant and the smells of incense. I love it’s history - a sense of timelessness and my own history that this was the Mass my Mom & Dad attended when they were converted to the Catholic faith before I was born. I have a Latin missal I use that was mine as a child as well as my Mom’s old mantilla. So it’s very nostalgic for me. History is important to me. One of the things I love about the Church is it’s history - the unbroken chain of laying on of hands from St. Peter to this day.

I love the Novus Ordo for it’s simplicity. It feels more austere and less ornate and in so being it’s focus becomes all the more on where it shoud be; on the Calvary Event - the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. It seems more humble and simple. For example instead of a talented choir perfectly singing sacred polyphony and gregorian chant you have a congregation of less than talented singers using their God-given voices to sing ever so imperfectly to the best of their ability. I appreciate that kind of ordinariness; to me it’s so human and contrite and unpretentious. I love the participation, being able to hear and clearly understand the prayers and songs engages me. I love that it’s not about me, about my preferences. I’ve had plenty of that during my absence. It’s about accepting with gratitude and thanksgiving what God has given me through His beloved bride - the Church, this manna in the desert.

It saddens me to see Catholics bickering over the Mass. It kinda reminds me of how I feel when my kids are bickering with each other over which one loves me more (when really they’re arguing which one I love more ). I think it’s the same thing here. Catholics are a family and we certainly do argue & bicker just like a family.

 

[ncjohn]

It saddens me to see Catholics bickering over the Mass. It kinda reminds me of how I feel when my kids are bickering with each other over which one loves me more (when really they’re arguing which one I love more

 

[BobP123]

It saddens me to see Catholics bickering over the Mass. It kinda reminds me of how I feel when my kids are bickering with each other over which one loves me more (when really they’re arguing which one I love more ). I think it’s the same thing here. Catholics are a family and we certainly do argue & bicker just like a family.

Yes, but I’ve seen tons of bickering even amongst the NO people at the same Mass. One wants to be lector, ok, then, we’ll have two readers today. Which ones can be Eucharistic Ministers today? Good we’ll call you if we need you. What do you want as far as music goes? The organist wants this but we want that. Whom should we ask to present the gifts today? Not them again! Hey, why don’t the boy servers want the girl? And on and on and on.

Need to take care of our own house before we start telling others how theirs should be kept.