Mass restricted to one hour

[Cat]

This is good news. In the United States, we no longer have to be concerned about Catholics leaving the Catholic Church to attend/become members of the exponentially-growing Evangelical Protestant churches!

Evangelical Protestant churches normally spend at least 20 minutes doing a “Praise and Worship Time” of various contemporary hymns/songs. The sermons are generally 30-45 minutes long. Often the hymns and songs are done in their entirety (all verses), and the choir or a soloist(s) do at least one anthem, often with instruments or even an orchestra or band. There is often a “Testimony Time” where individuals are encouraged to come to a microphone and testify about God’s work in their lives. The pastoral prayer is often a good, long, thorough prayer covering all the needs of the congregation. An offertory hymn or song is done during the offering. During the Fellowship Time, the congregation is invited to shake hands and greet each other. Some churches include either a children’s sermon, a “Youth Moment” (for the teenagers) or both.

All of this means a worship service that lasts at least an hour and a half, and often longer.

So in the United States, at least, if Catholics aren’t willing to attend a Mass that lasts more than one hour, they will certainly not be interested in attending Evangelical Protestant worship services that last an hour and a half or longer!

Problem solved! Cancel all those Catholic evangelization “bring them back” committee meetings!

Seriously folks, as many of you know, I play piano and lately, organ, in my parish and other parishes. It’s my personal opinion that Catholics are the LOSERS when it comes to skipping verses of the hymns.

We wouldn’t dream of skipping parts of a movie or a television show or a sports event, would we? So why rip off the hymns and hear only a partial version? These hymns are written to present an entire idea or story. They should be done in their entirety.

But I know that this will never happen in Catholic churches. Most Catholics seem to want their religion quick and easy., They aren’t interested in actually studying a systematic theology that stands up to the lure of the Evangelical Protestant churches, and they most certainly aren’t interested in actually singing all the verses of a hymn and actually paying attention to the words in that hymn.

Heck, guys, week after week, from what I see, most Catholics don’t even bother to open up the hymnal, let alone sing along.

This is strong language for Cat, but I must say, I think this is so stupid and I’m ashamed to be Catholic when I see this. It’s not my “musical ego.” It’s my desire to be a good workman who doesn’t need to ashamed. “Be diligent to present yourself approved to God as a workman who does not need to be ashamed, handling accurately the word of truth.” (II Timothy 2:15). The boldface is mine. We can’t be “accurate” when we skip over parts that are inconvenient for us.

If we can’t give God three minutes to sing a hymn (or at least follow along with the words in the hymnal), then we’re kidding ourselves. We aren’t going to be willing to do any good works in our family or community that will help others to see Jesus in us. We aren’t going to give God any time at all, other than that <1hour a week at Mass.

 

[Marie5890]

Just do as your asked and let it go.

This really is not a big issue.
It’s Mass, not a concert.

 

[Marie5890]

So, keep the number of verses to a limit determined by the time it takes to sing only until Father is ready to continue with the liturgy. As for the recessional - if my parish is anything to go by, the noise of chatting after the priest has exited is always drowning out the choir - much better to switch to instrumental postlude.

Same in mine.

And since the final blessing has been given, the Mass is over. The recessional is a nice touch, but the congregation has already been dismissed.

 

[Cat]

But if ever there is a time to go for it that’s IT!

Now if only we had an organist – and an organ…

Phemie, here’s the problem.

A postlude requires a lot of extra practice, and if no one sticks around to listen to it, what’s the use? There are so many tasks that must be done, it seems rather foolish to spend 8-10 hours of my week (more for big Bach pieces) practicing.

I realize that the Lord Jesus is Present in the Tabernacle even after all His people have left, and I often play just for Him.

 

[marbleartist]

I have come to the conclusion that the more “Protestant” the Catholic Church, the more verses of a hymn are sung. When living in the Bible Belt, our Catholic Mass would begin with the practice of the hymns we were to sing. Yep! Before Mass, the music director would lead us in practice, so we would “sing out” during the hymns in Mass. This was followed by a flowery musicale, as the organist “treated” us to a prolonged music solo before mass. WHERE WAS THE TIME TO PRAY AND PREPARE TO RECEIVE JESUS?? There wasn’t any! We sang all verses- just like the Protestants- and there was no time for reverent silence. It was a case of the music director thinking her part of the Mass was the most important! Now I live in a more Catholic part of the country. The music enhances Mass, but doesn’t dominate it. We sing only enough verses to process in, prepare the gifts, etc. Our focus is on God, not performance. I wonder if the priest, " trying to limit Mass to one hour", is actually trying to tone down the music- but attempting to do so without causing hurt feelings. Mass is equally powerful without music- but music can add to the experience. It should never dominate. IMHO

 

[HelenRose]

As a pianist and musician, I have learned that the Mass is not about me and my repertoire. It is about Christ. I am at the disposal of the Priest and quite happy to be there.

 

[ProVobis]

I may be somewhat in the minority here but the Church does suggest entrance, offertory, and communion antiphons. AFAIK, hymns are allowed as long as they reflect the “same spirit.” But that means someone has to read the antiphon to know the spirit before they decide on the hymn, no? And is it necessary to play 8 verses to grasp this spirit of just a few lines of antiphon?

 

[ProVobis]

If we carry on like this, all our hymns in the future will be written in bass clef!

At the Spanish masses I attend they just use a Casio (or Roland) and it basically plays itself with all the built-in chords and beats and introductions et al. Throw in some midi-compatibility and it seems that less and less talent is needed to play any of these instruments.

 

[Cat]

I have come to the conclusion that the more “Protestant” the Catholic Church, the more verses of a hymn are sung. When living in the Bible Belt, our Catholic Mass would begin with the practice of the hymns we were to sing. Yep! Before Mass, the music director would lead us in practice, so we would “sing out” during the hymns in Mass. This was followed by a flowery musicale, as the organist “treated” us to a prolonged music solo before mass. WHERE WAS THE TIME TO PRAY AND PREPARE TO RECEIVE JESUS?? There wasn’t any! We sang all verses- just like the Protestants- and there was no time for reverent silence. It was a case of the music director thinking her part of the Mass was the most important! Now I live in a more Catholic part of the country. The music enhances Mass, but doesn’t dominate it. We sing only enough verses to process in, prepare the gifts, etc. Our focus is on God, not performance. I wonder if the priest, " trying to limit Mass to one hour", is actually trying to tone down the music- but attempting to do so without causing hurt feelings. Mass is equally powerful without music- but music can add to the experience. It should never dominate. IMHO

I find this post so sad.

I struggle daily with the decision to continue taking organ lessons, or just give it up. If this thread is any indication of typical Catholic thinking, I’m wasting my time and my money.

 

[HelenRose]

I find this post so sad.

I struggle daily with the decision to continue taking organ lessons, or just give it up. If this thread is any indication of typical Catholic thinking, I’m wasting my time and my money.

If you love the organ, why give up?

Are you looking for a career in church music or do you play simply for the joy of playing.

Are you a joyful organist or a sad dour organist that is not appreciated properly?

 

[angelic06]

1. I couldn’t care less what the congregation thinks is an appropriate Mass time. And I do believe that this is Fathers decision no matter what country he is from. But it could very well be that it is coming from Father himself.
2. I also think that it is not the role of the musicians to feel one way or the other about what they are being asked to do. All of the suggestions seemed reasonable. Other than a bruised ego (which all church musicians seem to have) What is your objection?

With respect to # 2, the musicians have to *obey *the decisions of the pastor. However, if they take seriously their work in the parish, they also have the right to make their opinions, respectfully, known to the pastor. So, I naturally do not agree with your claim that it “is not the role of the musicians to feel one way or the other about what they are being asked to do”.

 

[angelic06]

I find this post so sad.

I struggle daily with the decision to continue taking organ lessons, or just give it up. If this thread is any indication of typical Catholic thinking, I’m wasting my time and my money.

I agree with your post, Cat, that the quoted post is sad. However, there are many Roman Catholics, namely myself, who would delight in a Mass sung with organ, choir, and chant. They are very rare, indeed.

While I agree with a previous poster that music is not the focus of Mass, I do not agree with him/her that it is a “bonus”. Instead, I think it was St. Augustine who wrote “singing belongs to one who loves.” So, while it is true that music should not be the focus, so as to make a show, it does not follow that it is merely an “extra” to the Mass. For well chosen music enhances the beauty of the Mass, and offers to His Majesty the King a fine offering, the best we can give.

To all posters (no one in particular): let us not go from one extreme to another, saying that we should sing every verse, to another, saying that music is simple an extra, not important to divine worship.

 

[angelic06]

I may be somewhat in the minority here but the Church does suggest entrance, offertory, and communion antiphons. AFAIK, hymns are allowed as long as they reflect the “same spirit.” But that means someone has to read the antiphon to know the spirit before they decide on the hymn, no? And is it necessary to play 8 verses to grasp this spirit of just a few lines of antiphon?

Thank you for bringing the antiphons up! Chant needs to be encouraged more. Let us leave aside the fact that some of the “hymns” being manufactured today, are not, IMHO, really high quality, and from my experience of being in many Roman churches over the past 20 + years (I am 31, but subtract my infant years), the faithful do not really care to sing some of the stuff they are being told to sing. (I remember regular pitches when I was young to the worshippers by the Director of Music that they must sing.)

 

[SMHW]

While I agree with a previous poster that music is not the focus of Mass, I do not agree with him/her that it is a “bonus”. Instead, I think it was St. Augustine who wrote “singing belongs to those who love.” So, while it is true that music should not be the focus, so as to make a show, it does not follow that it is merely an “extra” to the Mass. For well chosen music enhances the beauty of the Mass, and offers to His Majesty the King a fine offering, the best we can give.

To all posters (no one in particular): let us not go from one extreme to another, saying that we should sing every verse, to another, saying that music is simple an extra, not important to divine worship.

I agree with this.

The preference for a Sunday Mass should be a Mass with music. (There will always be good reasons not to have music but that’s not the point.)

Given that there will be music, the preference would seem to be to use the antiphons for the day and it makes sense that when other styles of singing are used it’s nice if they mirror the antiphons.

But hymns a legitimate alternative to songs and I’ve never seen anything* requiring* them to be the same as the antiphons for a given part of the Mass. There is something to be said for respecting the integrity of the hymns which do have to be heard in their entirety to deliver the full message.

There are hymns that are geared toward processions and they frequently have verses that can be used or excluded based on the “theme” of the day. It doesn’t make sense to schedule an eight-verses-needed-to-deliver-the-message hymn for the Offertory because that interferes with the flow of the Mass. But if this is a large parish and communion takes a good ten minutes then a longer hymn would work just fine (even if the subject matter might more closely mirror the offertory antiphon.)

My experience has been that when a parish DOES have good music and the parishioners like the music, they don’t usually mind staying longer than an hour.

 

[M-Dent]

Thank you for bringing the antiphons up! Chant needs to be encouraged more.

At the parish my family attends, in the OF of the Mass antiphons and the ordinaries are often sung/chanted - Kyrie and the Gloria and Sanctus in Latin (usually from Mass VIII). I find it enhances the prayerfulness.

 

[marbleartist]

I find this post so sad.

I struggle daily with the decision to continue taking organ lessons, or just give it up. If this thread is any indication of typical Catholic thinking, I’m wasting my time and my money.

Really? I find your response to be very enlightening. Apparently your participation in Mass as the organist is all about YOU. Most Catholics attend Mass because it is all about God. As we serve God, we decrease in importance as He increases. Our efforts to serve in Mass should always be directed toward helping others worship…and we should serve with humility.

 

[ProVobis]

Given that there will be music, the preference would seem to be to use the antiphons for the day and it makes sense that when other styles of singing are used it’s nice if they mirror the antiphons.

But hymns a legitimate alternative to songs and I’ve never seen anything* requiring* them to be the same as the antiphons for a given part of the Mass. There is something to be said for respecting the integrity of the hymns which do have to be heard in their entirety to deliver the full message.

This from the missalette:

The entrance chant reflects the liturgical spirit of the day or season. Another psalm or hymn of similar spirit may be used in its place.

FWIW, the entrance form is antiphon-Gloria Patri-antiphon. This follows the form of the older rite.

 

[marbleartist]

As a pianist and musician, I have learned that the Mass is not about me and my repertoire. It is about Christ. I am at the disposal of the Priest and quite happy to be there.

You seem to be a humble and faithful servant. Your parish is blessed to have you!

 

[Cat]

If you love the organ, why give up?

Are you looking for a career in church music or do you play simply for the joy of playing.

Are you a joyful organist or a sad dour organist that is not appreciated properly?

I am a servant of the Lord. I enjoy playing at Mass because it helps lead the people in worship–at least I thought it did.

The impression that I am getting from this thread is that it only leads the people in worship if it is short, and if it isn’t very loud.

So why bother with Bach? Apparently he’s just annoying to all the people who need silence to pray. Apparently all those people in the past who had the privilege of hearing Vierne, Franck, Couperin, etc. play before and during Mass were either deaf or weren’t really praying, but just listening to the “concert” performed by the musicians with big big egos.

Before I write anything else, let me just say that Yes, I absolutely agree that we need to respect and cheerfully obey our priests. In the ten years that I have been part of Catholic Answers Forums, I have stated over and over again that our personal preference doesn’t matter. What’s important is that we recognize, respect, and obey, with cheerfulness and docility, the priests who have been appointed for us.

Let me also say that if I were in a parish in which the music was relegated to a mere irritating necessity in the Mass, I would leave that parish. I just finished reading The Perfect Joy of St. Francis, and it is obvious that this great saint sang his way through most of his life. Mass is not all about music, but good music can certainly help people recognize that the Mass is not of this earth.

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

I find this post so sad.

I struggle daily with the decision to continue taking organ lessons, or just give it up. If this thread is any indication of typical Catholic thinking, I’m wasting my time and my money.

Well I think that is just an emotional response to the other post. I don’t agree with the other post but it is certainly their right to have it. You have to remember everyone has had vastly different experiences with this. I have been part of horrible horrible parishes with many abuses and very reverent ones and ones with little talent and ones with lots of talent. I can assure you that a good organist is in very great demand in many, many places. Currently our parish is very very good with music. In fact we have published a traditional hymnal that is used in many countries. My daughter is part of the childrens choir, many songs are in latin, and there is tremendous talent and a wonderful organist. But all that is rare. And not only that but to be honest, I still only tolerate the music at Mass. I have seen the worst. I have seen drums behind glass with the name of the music program on them and a teen rock star belting the words to creed’s arms wide open during the Eucharist.

Would I be happy with all Gregorian chant all the time? Probably. But that is not going to happen so please please please become a good, Holy, humble, and capable organist! i Guarantee two things. That you will be serving God, and that people will be unhappy with you. As long as you are not abusing or acting our of ignorance keep it up!