Mass without Singing/Music

[catholictiger]

I do not enjoy singing at Mass and I also do not like a lot of hymns, especially the modern ones which are somewhat effeminate.

Is it possible to have a Mass that has no singing and no music? Which could perhaps leave more room in the service time for better preaching?

I realise that many if not most will disagree with me.

Thank you to all who can assist.

yes almost every weekday mass I went to before entering seminary had no singing. Some sunday masses don’t have sining. I like singing because I like music. so I like to go to music masses, but chant is the best follow by sacred polyphony then everything.

 

[zab]

In the Mass, there is more than tastes at stake. The highest form of the Mass, by definition, is sung. The least solemn form is a low Mass, which is completely spoken. On Sundays and feast days, it is very fitting that the celebrant sing at least part of the Mass, and that there be other music.

Unfortunately these definitions do not apply in the Ordinary Form.

Our pastor has recently told us that from now on (ever since we began doing the new translations) we would be singing the entire Sunday Mass as well as on feast days but on the average week day Masses, we recite the prayers -they are not sung. So whether or not the definitions of what TheMc has written above apply to the Ordinary Form, it is what is being done in our parish now.

 

[YoungTradCath]

Our pastor has recently told us that from now on (ever since we began doing the new translations) we would be singing the entire Sunday Mass as well as on feast days but on the average week day Masses, we recite the prayers -they are not sung. So whether or not the definitions of what TheMc has written above apply to the Ordinary Form, it is what is being done in our parish now.

That’s all within his rights as your pastor. He can do that. But what I mean is that there is no universal rule. I agree with your pastor. I think there should be a complete restoration of High Mass versus Low Mass. But the fact of the matter remains that until there is, very few parishes will implement this, and we’ll have four people at daily masses trying to belt out a seven minute processional song, which is ridiculous and completely unfitting for a common ferial day mass.

The problem with our liturgy in general is this gobbledegook set of rules in which you can find about five hundred exceptions for each rule in the name of “inculturation” or something. Rubrics and rules need to be tightened up, otherwise we risk having two parishes three miles apart with completely inconsistent masses, which is a supreme example of what causes division.

 

[utah_rose]

Yes, it is possible. The Mass I grew up going to doesn’t have any singing or music. I enjoy hymns, though, and much prefer the Mass with music.

That Tradional Latin low Mass has no singing in it (although we do have an opening and closing hymn). I enjoy singing but not the songs sung now in in the NOVO Mass.

And many (maybe inadvertently are “I” centered) rather then mentioning God.

 

[Sarabande]

It is very frustrating as I think the “norm” Catholic for who services are geared is a female who wants an experience. I would prefer to have good preaching, based on the day’s readings, which in turn relates to an important message. Instead I endure weak, pathetic preaching and soppy, effeminate hymns.

(One of the great things I found through Catholic Answers was the orthodox, well-thought out Catholic and ‘lay’ evangelism that I had never been exposed to as a Catholic growing up in the 1980s and 1990s. I did not have to leave my intellect and curiosity at the church door. Sadly I still find Mass itself often badly done and the music horrible.)

I agree that for someone who also grew up in the 80s and 90s, the liturgy was pretty bad and instructions in catechism were pretty much obsolete, as well as CCD classes (at least according to everyone I knew who had CCD) was more about moral relativism and less about Catholicism. I also agree that there was a lot of watering down and dumbing down, which felt like a huge insult, along with mediocre to horrible music compositions or just poor musicianship. That said, I have never equated it either being feminine or masculine and I think it is a bit of an insult to many women when it is mentioned that the liturgies today are geared towards “a female who wants an experience”. Soppiness and patheticism are not feminine. In my opinion, none of this is not a gender thing. I think the better thing to say is that the norm is that they are geared towards people who want an experience, as I’ve seen this attitude in both men and women in the various parishes where I work…

I also don’t buy into this idea of effeminate music and the idea that only women like that kind of music. Again, in my experience, especially since I do get to work with individual people from congregations when choosing music for funerals or just get feedback from people after mass, men can be just as into this newer, “effeminate” music as women.

And the idea that men only want silent liturgies (not saying that is you… I’ve heard this argument in the past ) because they can’t relate to music in the liturgy is an insult to men as well. (And believe me, I can relate to sometimes just wanting and needing a silent mass without the music as many times it is pretty bad or just mediocre.) But men can be equally touched as a woman by what they consider a beautiful voice and what they consider beautiful vocal or instrumental repertoire. It’s sometimes the men coming up, sometimes with tears in their eyes and once in a while hugging you, thanking you for the beautiful prayer in the music and literally saying that it was like an angel singing from the choir loft or that when they die they hope they hear that voice from the angels. And there is nothing weak or wrong about them being that way. It’s not girly or feminine. To me, it’s part of being human.

So, I think we should be careful about trying to throw in the gender card here. It’s not right to either men or women. And I hope I’m not sounding angry or harsh. It’s not my intent to come across that way, as I do agree with much of your criticism, especially for our generation growing up.

 

[KnightIHSV]

The gender issue is relevant. For a man, or at least this man, there is something strange about singing many modern hymns which are written in terms of “love” from a decidedly feminine perspective. They make me uncomfortable and involve expressing an emotive love that makes me quite uncomfortable and makes me feel ill at ease in church. I am not sure why attending Church should make me feel uncomfortable and unwelcome. All I am asking for is one Mass on a Sunday without singing/music and preferably celebrated by a priest who can preach in an interesting and Biblical way … there can still be other Masses for those who like singing, music, hugging, handholding etc.

 

[Pfaffenhoffen]

I was unaware that one could apply gender to music.

Yes, it is possible to have Mass with no music. It might even be prudent if the the parish for some reason had a majority, or a large minority that agreed with the OP, to have such a Mass. There is nothing wrong with accommodating personal tastes like that, evn though the Catholic Church has always treasure music, and it seems the large majority of people like music.

Russian Army Choir deffinitively masculine.
“Plaisir d’Amour” definitvely feminine in the good sense.

effiminate music is harder to describe… but there is somewhat a trend in the Church, and I hate is…it is the kind, sweet jesus, you are a good person to me, you are in my heart, give me all I need but do not bother me with your wishes that give me trouble, let me live a New Age type of sweet religiosity, my sweet jesus…

 

[pnewton]

…it is the kind, sweet jesus, you are a good person to me, you are in my heart, give me all I need but do not bother me with your wishes that give me trouble, let me live a New Age type of sweet religiosity, my sweet jesus…

That I understand, as it is more specific.

 

[pnewton]

What we do at my parish is that we have a Mass with less singing and more spoken parts, to accommodate those who do not like to sing. Those who do not like to even hear music, well, I haven’t ran across any of those yet. The only thing I have found is those who do not want to sing still wanting to say the some things as a whole with the congregation. It is those we accommodate.

FYI - I think the problem with bad preaching is a false dichotomy. The two issues have nothing to do with each other. If you give a bad homilist more time,(shudder), I don’t even want to contemplate that. On the other hand, brevity is the sole of wit. Some of the best homilies (and speeches) ever given have been short and to the point. A homiletics professor I know says that he trains the priests to shoot for 8-10 minutes.

 

[pnewton]

. Rubrics and rules need to be tightened up, otherwise we risk having two parishes three miles apart with completely inconsistent masses, which is a supreme example of what causes division.

Doesn’t the High Mass and the Low Mass have two completely different set of rules? I understand that inculturation can go outside of the limits set, but I see nothing wrong with accommodating people, like the OP, as long as there is a significant population to make it pastorally prudent. Likewise, I see nothing wrong with even throwing in a Tridentine Mass for those who prefer that, even though it may result in a Traditional parish three miles from a more mainstream parish.

 

[prbarrera]

Wedding Masses definitely have music in my parish!

Funeral Masses, if the person is a member in our Church community, then a choir will definitely be formed.

There was a time before also in our Parish, on First Friday Mass or even the Saturday evening Mass (which counts as a Sunday Mass), instrumental music will be played during Communion from a CD. Lately, it’s gone, either the CD went missing or the CD is worn out, or the priest may have ordered the parish staff to stop playing it.

 

[Paul_theApostle]

I think il be getting up a bit earlier Sunday mornings to get to those non-singing Masses

i like the quiet weekday reading Masses

 

[TheMc]

Lately, it’s gone, either the CD went missing or the CD is worn out, or the priest may have ordered the parish staff to stop playing it.

He probably asked them to stop. Using recorded music in the liturgy is strictly prohibited.

 

[Sarabande]

The gender issue is relevant. For a man, or at least this man, there is something strange about singing many modern hymns which are written in terms of “love” from a decidedly feminine perspective. They make me uncomfortable and involve expressing an emotive love that makes me quite uncomfortable and makes me feel ill at ease in church. I am not sure why attending Church should make me feel uncomfortable and unwelcome. All I am asking for is one Mass on a Sunday without singing/music and preferably celebrated by a priest who can preach in an interesting and Biblical way … there can still be other Masses for those who like singing, music, hugging, handholding etc.

I think it would be nice if there is at least one Sunday “quiet” mass. And although I will definitely grant that for you and probably other men, some of these masses are uncomfortable, it’s also uncomfortable for many women (myself included), which is why I don’t think it is a gender issue. I personally can’t stand sappiness or touchy-feeliness at mass. I don’t like handholding at mass either. And most of the music at many parishes… to put it nicely, it’s not my cup of tea. And I’m probably as feminine as you can get. I know there are plenty of women who feel the same and would not equate the “modern” hymns as something from a feminine perspective.

But that is my opinion, and you have yours which is fine.

 

[KnightIHSV]

Then we probably agree more than we disagree.

 

[Sarabande]

Then we probably agree more than we disagree.

Of course… … which was why I didn’t think the gender issue was relavent.

 

[pollycarp]

I’m listening to a Mass on the radio right now that has some, what I consider to be, not-too-good singing. It’s distracting. Coincidentally, part of the Rule of St. Benedict for today states, - The sisters are not to read or chant in order, but only those who edify their hearers.

The hearers should be edified.

 

[KnightIHSV]

Of course… … which was why I didn’t think the gender issue was relavent.

My anecdotal experience has been that women like this music more than men do. I should also say that a lot of men really get into choral and chant, which I do not like either. My view is that if the early Church did not have to suffer through church music, why do I have to? I particularly object - as I wrote in an earlier post - to the protected species status of choirs and chants.

 

[pnewton]

My view is that if the early Church did not have to suffer through church music, why do I have to?.

Here St. Paul addresses two different early churches:

[Eph 5:19](http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=49&CHAP=5&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=19) Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord;

[Col 3:16](http://bibledatabase.org/cgi-bin/bib_search/bible.cgi?BIBLE=48&BOOK=51&CHAP=3&SEARCH=jesus king lord&Read=Read&FIRST=OK&HV=16) Let the word of Christ dwell in you richly in all wisdom; teaching and admonishing one another in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing with grace in your hearts to the Lord.

 

[KnightIHSV]

OK, good pick-up – was unaware that Paul was into this as well.

Nonetheless, I suspect he would have disliked both chant and boys’ choirs, as well as poorly executed guitar bands.