Masterbation as an Alternative to Normal Sex

[OraLabora]

The thing that bothers me the most about the posters here (that keep saying that it should be ok to masturbate under these circumstances) is that they don’t even seem to want to try and do it God’s way.

And how can we know that they have never tried?

Not everyone is the same, either psychologically or physiologically.

I’m glad you had the fortitude to go through a temporary period of abstinence. Now imagine a loving couple, married 20 or so years, still sexually active, still filled with desire for one another, being told it is permanent.

It’s almost impossible for us here to know the state of mind, the level of holiness and the level of effort of individual posters. I for instance refrain from posting anything personal about myself for good reason: these topics are topics I will only discuss with my spouse, confessor and spiritual director. Who incidentally says that holiness is in the effort, even if you fail, and not in the success, if it was effortless for you.

 

[crazzeto]

onmyknees,

What an inspiring and beautiful post! Thanks so much for sharing that!

 

[onmyknees]

And how can we know that they have never tried?

Not everyone is the same, either psychologically or physiologically.

I’m glad you had the fortitude to go through a temporary period of abstinence. Now imagine a loving couple, married 20 or so years, still sexually active, still filled with desire for one another, being told it is permanent.

It’s almost impossible for us here to know the state of mind, the level of holiness and the level of effort of individual posters. I for instance refrain from posting anything personal about myself for good reason: these topics are topics I will only discuss with my spouse, confessor and spiritual director. Who incidentally says that holiness is in the effort, even if you fail, and not in the success, if it was effortless for you.

My mom told me that they had to stop being sexually active due to my dad’s health condition after many happy years of being sexually active. She said it was really hard for both of them. This happens really often to many couples. It is another part of our life.

I agree with you that we do grow in holiness when we try our best to not sin in this way. But we also grow in holiness through sharing our suffering with Christ’s suffering. And if the posters here are praying and trying their best to abstain that is wonderful. But why do they keep bringing up the fact that the Church should change their teaching on this in these circumstances. We need to try to embrace our sufferings no matter how hard it is to do. When we fight Jesus fights the fight with us. And no it was not effortless for me and my dh. It was especially hard for me mentally too because my dh is not religious or Catholic.

 

[onmyknees]

onmyknees,

What an inspiring and beautiful post! Thanks so much for sharing that!

Thank you Crazzeto! Your posts are always so good!

 

[Holly3278]

Masturbation is never an ethical “alternative” to normal sex. Masturbation is always a sin. It’s as simple as that.

 

[OraLabora]

Masturbation is never an ethical “alternative” to normal sex. Masturbation is always a sin. It’s as simple as that.

I never said that wasn’t the case.

I did say that in some circumstances, people may find it difficult not to, and that we need to have pastoral concern for these unfortunate souls. Again, it’s something they need to work out with their confessors.

 

[onmyknees]

Quote:
Originally Posted by OraLabora View Post
Not everyone has the same capacity to fight it.

Quote by davidv
I beg to differ. We are all offered sufficient grace to overcome any evil that attempts to come into our lives.

OraLabora, davidv had this right. Here it is in scripture: Three times I besought the Lord about this, that it should leave me; but He said to me, “My grace is sufficient for you, for my power is made perfect in weakness.” 2 Cor.12 8-9.

 

[onmyknees]

I never said that wasn’t the case.

I did say that in some circumstances, people may find it difficult not to, and that we need to have pastoral concern for these unfortunate souls. Again, it’s something they need to work out with their confessors.

I do think confessors have concern for these souls in such circumstances. But the concern needs to be like my confessor had in my above post. He said in a very loving way, “Be assured that my prayers are with you.” Concern does not mean to work something out that is not in line with Catholic teaching. The confessor cannot change the teaching on this.

I don’t think people like it if when they are told that it is ok to do something they know is against Church teaching. Or when they are given a watered down version that makes it too easy. They know the Truth in their hearts. And when they hear the Truth it inspires them to do better.

 

[vera_dicere]

I remember when that stupid “masterbation prevents cancer” study came out. It was on all the news and every “sexpert” and Unplanned Parenthood organisation was lauding it as spectacular science. That was several years ago now, and I’ve yet to see a solid peer review or follow up studies.

Funny how they still laud it as truth. But, when approximately 37 out of 42 international studies have found that there’s a link between breast cancer and abortion, or how every study since 2001 has found that condoms actually INCREASE the incidences of STD infection, these studies are labelled as rubbish spurned on by conservative anti-choice fundies.

 

[davidv]

The reality that faithful Catholics can and do repeatedly fail would tend to counter this. If this wasn’t the case we wouldn’t need Christ’s redemptive work on the Cross. It was reality that human imperfection made it impossible for man to follow God’s law 100% that lead to the need for such redemption.

To sin is to be unfaithful. So a Catholic who sins isn’t very faithful. Fortunately God, as a loving Father is will to forgive us if we repent (admit the fault and resolve not to repeat it). That we fail is a clear indication that we do not take advantage of the grace available to us.

The reason that we don’t is because of the Fall.

No, the reason we don’t is free will, to do as we please, rather than what God desires. We only have ourselves to blame.

To think that we can is Utopian, and not at all aligned to the reality of life.

Why is it Utopia? Did not Jesus’ sacrafice set us free from the slavery of sin? Why is it said that we won’t be tested beyond our means to resist?

By saying “we all have the grace to do it, so shut up and do it” we are doing just that: condemning those who fall.

How are we condemning them?

Or at least laying a king-sized guilt trip on them.

Why is guilt a bad thing? Guilt is meant to get our attention and admit that we were wrong.

We get to attain that 100% truth in heaven, not before it, after passing through purgatory, except for those very few who are saints and martyrs.

But this does not give a free pass to quit trying.

Nor did I declare that it wasn’t a sin.

OK. If not, why should it be excused?

 

[distracted]

An unmarried adult, who through no fault of his own cannot find a mate has sexual needs too, yes there is more to life than just sex, but sometimes the sex urge justs gets the best of the most Holy well intentioned persons, even our priests & consecrated religious are not immune from this. Masturbation begins young a natural normal thing to do, young people & all people who masturbate are made to feel dirty & its not so, its a normal almost necessary function

well, if that is true, i should be DEAD by now… i haven’t done this sin in years and DO NOT plan on ever doing it again.

in fact, i can say with certainty that i never will again… because i don’t want to distance myself from JEsus…

not being with Jesus can mean HELL… in this world & in the next… perverted sex is what leads most people to Hell…

If i with my high sex urges can refrain for years (and forever), so can others… Sometimes it is not easy and the urge is there… but if i can ignore it and get distracted w/ more important things that we are supposed to be doing anyway… so can others…

you should not be encouraging pepole to commit this sin… you show no charity for the souls of others…

 

[OraLabora]

If i with my high sex urges can refrain for years (and forever), so can others…

Forever hasn’t happened yet.

That said, respectfully even the CCC suggests that this isn’t true. To repeat for the nth time:

*2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. "Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action."137 “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of "the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved."138
To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety, or other psychological or social factors that lessen or even extenuate moral culpability.
The last paragraph would suggest that not everyone has the equal capacity to stop and that the Church recognizes it.

What you’re suggesting is equivalent to telling a loved one with clinical depression to just “snap out of it”.

It is neither helpful, nor charitable, nor in the interest of pastoral care, to tell someone to just “snap out of it” or to say in this case “if I could do it, so can you”.

 

[Lauds]

well, if that is true, i should be DEAD by now… i haven’t done this sin in years and DO NOT plan on ever doing it again.

in fact, i can say with certainty that i never will again… because i don’t want to distance myself from JEsus…

not being with Jesus can mean HELL… in this world & in the next… perverted sex is what leads most people to Hell…

If i with my high sex urges can refrain for years (and forever), so can others… Sometimes it is not easy and the urge is there… but if i can ignore it and get distracted w/ more important things that we are supposed to be doing anyway… so can others…

you should not be encouraging pepole to commit this sin… you show no charity for the souls of others…

Most people are having a problem fighting sexual temptation, so You beat it, so goody for you,everyone is not the same. Do You actually think that even a lot of our clergy are not having sex.WEll your wrong. So You made yourself a poster child for one who has beaten masturbation, so give others who are fighting it a chance, & Do Not condemn me, you show no charity either, you have no idea about how charitable I am, or the lack of it. People masturbate, it starts at a very young age, it is hard to beat, even if it was meant to beat at all. I don`t think God would have made it such a strong desire if it was all that bad to do. Some fight it all their lives even in spite of being married they still masturbate.God knows all our hearts, let him be the judge

 

[davidv]

Most people are having a problem fighting sexual temptation, so You beat it, so goody for you,everyone is not the same. Do You actually think that even a lot of our clergy are not having sex.WEll your wrong.

I think you have provide proof of this uncharitable charge. There is no possible way that you can know this. Just because you don’t want to control yourself, doesn’t mean other won’t.

So You made yourself a poster child for one who has beaten masturbation, so give others who are fighting it a chance, & Do Not condemn me, you show no charity either, you have no idea about how charitable I am, or the lack of it.

There is nothing in distracted’s post that condemns you or anyone else. Nor is there anything uncharitable in it.

People masturbate, it starts at a very young age, it is hard to beat, even if it was meant to beat at all. I don`t think God would have made it such a strong desire if it was all that bad to do.

So you say, but you are wrong.

Some fight it all their lives even in spite of being married they still masturbate.God knows all our hearts, let him be the judge

And we know that God judges it a sin, and will determine what the penalty will be.

 

[Lauds]

I think you have provide proof of this uncharitable charge. There is no possible way that you can know this. Just because you don’t want to control yourself, doesn’t mean other won’t.

There is nothing in distracted’s post that condemns you or anyone else. Nor is there anything uncharitable in it.

So you say, but you are wrong.

And we know that God judges it a sin, and will determine what the penalty will be.

Reread her post again, & You are wrong. God knows man is weak, he senT his only son because of mans weakness, there is no one, I mean No one who is going to live out their life without commiting some sin in thought , word or deed or doubt. I Listen to what My confessor tells me, I am living what I believe is the truth, 99% of people masturbate, it is normal, there is nothing abnormal about it, It is everyones first experience with sex, do not kid yourself. What planet areYou from.I don`t think God is so much concerned with people masturbating with all of the other really bad stuff going on in this world. Masturbation or abstinence is the way to go to not bring unwanted children into this world who are not cared for or are aborted, avoid conception if U are not married Masturbate or abstain, & There is like no one who wants to abstain

 

[Cowfold]

I believe the title of this thread is ill thought.
Two thoughts here.
For lay people there is nothing wrong with it at all. Sure beats playing away when things are not right between ones partner.
As for those in religious orders. It is the greatest safety valve there is.

 

[davidv]

Reread her post again, & You are wrong.

I did, and no I am not.

God knows man is weak, he senT his only son because of man`s weakness, there is no one, I mean No one who is going to live out their life without commiting some sin in thought , word or deed or doubt.

He also said we are to overcome our weakness. Why does St. Paul record this:

It is he whom we proclaim, admonishing everyone and teaching everyone with all wisdom, that we may present everyone perfect in Christ. (Colossians (NAB) 1:28)

and this?

Epaphras sends you greetings; he is one of you, a slave of Christ (Jesus), always striving for you in his prayers so that you may be perfect and fully assured in all the will of God. (Colossians (NAB) 4:12)

I Listen to what My confessor tells me, I am living what I believe is the truth, 99% of people masturbate,

An exageration without evidence.

it is normal, there is nothing abnormal about it, It is everyone`s first experience with sex, do not kid yourself.

So is breaking the traffic laws. Since when does “normal” equal holy?

What planet areYou from.

Earth.

I don`t think God is so much concerned with people masturbating with all of the other really bad stuff going on in this world. Masturbation or abstinence is the way to go to not bring unwanted children into this world who are not cared for or are aborted, avoid conception if U are not married Masturbate or abstain, & There is like no one who wants to abstain

I don’t think you can legitimately claim to know what is God’s is concern. The Church teaches that mastrubation is grave matter and can be a mortal sin. What can be more “bad” than going to hell?

 

[Lauds]

I did, and no I am not.

He also said we are to overcome our weakness. Why does St. Paul record this:
and this?

An exageration without evidence.

So is breaking the traffic laws. Since when does “normal” equal holy?

Earth.

I don’t think you can legitimately claim to know what is God’s is concern. The Church teaches that mastrubation is grave matter and can be a mortal sin. What can be more “bad” than going to hell?

Apparently You cant read. I Understand That we are to overcome our weaknesses, but thats not to say we all do, All God asks is that we try, & only he knows if we do. There are people who go a lifetime fighting some weakness & they never beat it, did they fight it, Only God knows for sure. We live here on earth we are not rolling around heaven, this is a world full of worldly temptations, We are natural beings, not super natural, so its only reasonable that we are going to fall over & over again In Thought, Word or deed or doubt Do You really know Gods concern, guess what we only think we do, God is a mystery for U & for me & for us all

 

[davidv]

Apparently You can`t read.

Proving that you know nothing about me.

I Understand That we are to overcome our weaknesses, but thats not to say we all do, All God asks is that we try, & only he knows if we do. There are people who go a lifetime fighting some weakness & they never beat it, did they fight it, Only God knows for sure. We live here on earth we are not rolling around heaven, this is a world full of worldly temptations, We are natural beings, not super natural, so its only reasonable that we are going to fall over & over again In Thought, Word or deed or doubt

Still does not excuse it.

Do You really know God`s concern, guess what we only think we do, God is a mystery for U & for me & for us all

I know what the Body of Christ, the Bride of Christ, aka Catholic Church teaches about God’s concerns. Do you?

 

[petriuno]

Here’s my real world - after 40 years of wonderful in every way marriage including sex and Catholicism - my wife was diagnosed with a condition that prohibits her from having vaginal sex ergo acording to The Faith “sex.” I love her profoundly and would never hurt her. The issue is I miss the intimacy - not just the getting off.

As - as this forum has ground to a fine powder - masturbation ala RC is always and everytime disordered and sinful, and "fooling around must lead to open-to-procreation sex we’ve been left with this: She is afraid to even hug me as that could lead to my arousal and temptation I MISS TOUCHING HER. I am afraid to talk about my sexual frustration because that would make her feel less womanly or inadequate or a source of frustration to me. I MISS TALKING TO HER While we could derive pleasure, intimacy and union from what used to be foreplay - we can not consumate and so derive no pleasure, intimacy or union from anything physical and/or sexual, or even sexual in inference.

The Church and all the finger waggers get the procreative equation just fine — I agree with those that contend the unitive side of this equation needs some work. Masturbation may not always and everytime be about beastlikeself gratification.