Masterbation as an Alternative to Normal Sex

[USUlsterScot]

For me, this has been one of the most confusing positions of the Catholic Church. I understand the Church’s position is that sex is for the purpose of pro-creation between man and woman. I have always felt that there are at least three aspects of sex, physical, psychological, and spiritual and that the Church’s position does not always address all three. The joining of a man and woman in marriage can satisfy all three of these, but not necessarily. There is often great disparity in sexual drive between a man and women; being driven in large part by the level of hormones in both which can vary widely. The Church’s position offers no way of reconciling this disparity. Using the Church’s logic, if either the man or woman could not pro-create (sterility for instance), there would be no need for sex.

I think this ignores the physical and psychological needs of sex for both men and women. It can also lead to problems within marriage with no solution for resolution other than abstinence and ignoring of physical and psychological needs.
The church’s position provides no solution for men or women whose partner develops some kind of problem which prohibits normal sexual function, be it physical, psychological, etc. From my reading from medical sources, many men develop prostate problems because of the buildup of testosterone which can be due to the reduced frequency or abstinence of sex. Ejaculation is the only way for excess testosterone to be reduced in the prostrate (other than special medications). I have a friend who is taking these and they can produce enlarged breasts, higher pitched voice, and increased emotional response to events. From the sources I have read, regular ejaculation is beneficial to the prostrate and can help relieve problems from BHP.

My wife began entering menopause more than 20 years ago and coupled with her lack of physical exercise and weight gain has resulted in her sex drive dropping to a point where we have not had sex in over 12 years. As a result, I have also developed prostrate problems and now have to take medications. I have found many of my friends have gone through similar experiences, some of which have developed prostate cancer.
It seems to me the Church’s position fails to address problems when normal sex between a man and a woman cannot be consummated and provides no solutions for men and women who are, for what every reason not married.

 

[feelsgoodman]

Well i fap everyday. usually 3 times per day. I still love god, and i dont think it says “no masturbating” in the bible, but im not to sure, so dont hold it against me.

 

[johnmichaelbren]

a married couple owe it to each other to look after all their needs. good communication helps greatly. and doing research and learning and praying off course will satisfy all the difficult questions we are seeking answers for. the catholic life is both challanging and rewarding. and living this life without prayer makes it unduly difficult and more vulnerable to temptation. as an aside i once heard that intimate acts within marriage are blessings and the same acts outside of this union are not. my experience is Mother Church provides all the answers but sometimes we too have to humble ourselves and acknowledge our inability to go it alone.

 

[Newbie2]

For me, this has been one of the most confusing positions of the Catholic Church. I understand the Church’s position is that sex is for the purpose of pro-creation between man and woman. I have always felt that there are at least three aspects of sex, physical, psychological, and spiritual and that the Church’s position does not always address all three. The joining of a man and woman in marriage can satisfy all three of these, but not necessarily. There is often great disparity in sexual drive between a man and women; being driven in large part by the level of hormones in both which can vary widely. **The Church’s position offers no way of reconciling this disparity. Using the Church’s logic, if either the man or woman could not pro-create (sterility for instance), there would be no need for sex. **

I think this ignores the physical and psychological needs of sex for both men and women. It can also lead to problems within marriage with no solution for resolution other than abstinence and ignoring of physical and psychological needs.
The church’s position provides no solution for men or women whose partner develops some kind of problem which prohibits normal sexual function, be it physical, psychological, etc. ** From my reading from medical sources, many men develop prostate problems because of the buildup of testosterone which can be due to the reduced frequency or abstinence of sex. Ejaculation is the only way for excess testosterone to be reduced in the prostrate (other than special medications)**. I have a friend who is taking these and they can produce enlarged breasts, higher pitched voice, and increased emotional response to events. **From the sources I have read, regular ejaculation is beneficial to the prostrate and can help relieve problems from BHP. **

My wife began entering menopause more than 20 years ago and coupled with her lack of physical exercise and weight gain has resulted in her sex drive dropping to a point where we have not had sex in over 12 years. As a result, I have also developed prostrate problems and now have to take medications. I have found many of my friends have gone through similar experiences, some of which have developed prostate cancer.
It seems to me the Church’s position fails to address problems when normal sex between a man and a woman cannot be consummated and provides no solutions for men and women who are, for what every reason not married.

Wow.

Let’s start by saying that you are terribly mistaken on several points:

1. Medical information. By the “sources” you have listed, surely Priests would be in the very top group of men with Prostate issues, either BPH or prostate cancer. Do your “sources” verify this?

BTW, whatever your source that implies or states that Testosterone is stored in the prostate in prostatic fluid, and the only way to decrease the Testosterone that the prostate is exposed to…well, let’s say that such a notion is completely ridiculous is one is even vaguely familiar with reproductive physiology and/or endocrinology.

In short, such a notion is complete and utter bunk. The notion that masturbation can and does reduce a man’s susceptability to prostate issues is speculative fantasy at best.

1. Catholic theology information. The Church does certainly address disparity in sex drive; the solution is a concept called “Chastity” or “Abstanance”. You might, instead of reading such junk science as you apparently have been reading, try John Paul II’s theology of the body. There you might find some interesting reading.

The purposes of sex in marriage is both procreative and unitive. I know many couples who are just waiting for menopause so that they do not have a temptation to use Artificial birth control (Ones for which NFP is difficult or impossible to use).

What I get out of your post is, correct me if I’m wrong or seem harsh, but a “Me, me, me” attitude: I want sex, and I find my wife unattractive (or vice versa). But I deserve sexual release and I have a right to masturbate. Besides, I’ll get cancer or BPH if I don’t masturbate, so why would God want me to have cancer. That sort of thing.

I would seek out the council of a good marriage councelor and a priest to help work out your questions and difficulties. I think you’ll find that the Church has a very different position on sexuality than what you seem to believe.

 

[OraLabora]

Medical information. By the “sources” you have listed, surely Priests would be in the very top group of men with Prostate issues, either BPH or prostate cancer. Do your “sources” verify this?

And of course you know for certain that all priests never masturbate or never have sex. I have a bridge to sell you in Brooklyn. Priests are human. They have trouble following the rules too just as we do. I think the recent sex scandals in the Church are plenty of evidence of that.

I happen to be attached to a Benedictine monastery. I know at least one of the monks, in his 70s, with prostate cancer. There are about 42 monks in the community. Assuming he’s the only one, hat would be a rate of 1 in 42 (2.3%) . That is considerably higher than the age-adjusted global rate of prostate cancer of about 160 in 100,000 (0.16%). However the sample size is probably too small to be meaningful and given that the average age of the community is about 60 (although there are a few encouraging young vocations), it could very well be that the rate is lower than normal.

Rates of various cancers

In short, such a notion is complete and utter bunk. The notion that masturbation can and does reduce a man’s susceptability to prostate issues is speculative fantasy at best.

Here’s a reputable source: high ejaculation frequency was related to decreased risk of total prostate cancer

While there are some contradictory studies, perhaps the Church needs to take a more scientific view, rather than stick to an Aristotelian view that is clearly out of touch with our current knowledge of physiology.

My wife is a family physician. I happen to have all of her old medical texts at home. One specifically says that for benign prostatic hyperplasia (prostate enlargement), the two most conservative treatment options are, in order of preference, frequent ejaculation, or prostate massage.

I can tell you which option I would prefer. If I didn’t have the option of a licit sexual relationship and the doctor said “you can either masturbate a couple of times a week or come to see me once a week for a prostate massage”, I’d easily chose the former.

I can however see where the Church is coming from on the basis that masturbation can be addictive and is probably even far more addictive than say, alcohol. It can also be tied with nasty behaviours such as pornography, and can be quite damaging to normal sexual relations in a healthy marriage and in those circumstances should be avoided.

So there are also solid psychological grounds to try to steer people away from it.

But we are talking about one of the most powerful human urges; in men in particular, the sexual urge is driven by testosterone, and not all men have the same levels of testosterone in their blood, so the sex drive varies from person to person. Abstinence may be good in theory, but practice shows that even devout people struggle with it; abstinence may be easy for someone with a low testosterone level, and seriously difficult for someone with a high level. I do know from the monks in a conservative community that it is a discipline that is long and difficult to master and failures do occur. And they are doing it with the support of community of over 40, living a cloistered life.

I guess the Church has to hold up a standard of perfection (just like the aim on an exam should always be to score 100% but few do). But that doesn’t preclude the possibility of more pastoral concern for those struggling with these issues.

I have to admit that while I am a practicing and generally conservative and orthodox Catholic, it is the one issue I struggle the most to understand and I think the Church’s view is too harsh.

 

[FiberZilla]

For me, this has been one of the most confusing positions of the Catholic Church. I understand the Church’s position is that sex is for the purpose of pro-creation between man and woman. I have always felt that there are at least three aspects of sex, physical, psychological, and spiritual and that the Church’s position does not always address all three. The joining of a man and woman in marriage can satisfy all three of these, but not necessarily. There is often great disparity in sexual drive between a man and women; being driven in large part by the level of hormones in both which can vary widely. The Church’s position offers no way of reconciling this disparity. Using the Church’s logic, if either the man or woman could not pro-create (sterility for instance), there would be no need for sex.

I think this ignores the physical and psychological needs of sex for both men and women. It can also lead to problems within marriage with no solution for resolution other than abstinence and ignoring of physical and psychological needs.
The church’s position provides no solution for men or women whose partner develops some kind of problem which prohibits normal sexual function, be it physical, psychological, etc. From my reading from medical sources, many men develop prostate problems because of the buildup of testosterone which can be due to the reduced frequency or abstinence of sex. Ejaculation is the only way for excess testosterone to be reduced in the prostrate (other than special medications). I have a friend who is taking these and they can produce enlarged breasts, higher pitched voice, and increased emotional response to events. From the sources I have read, regular ejaculation is beneficial to the prostrate and can help relieve problems from BHP.

My wife began entering menopause more than 20 years ago and coupled with her lack of physical exercise and weight gain has resulted in her sex drive dropping to a point where we have not had sex in over 12 years. As a result, I have also developed prostrate problems and now have to take medications. I have found many of my friends have gone through similar experiences, some of which have developed prostate cancer.
It seems to me the Church’s position fails to address problems when normal sex between a man and a woman cannot be consummated and provides no solutions for men and women who are, for what every reason not married.

This is a very provocative but excellent post. The issue itself is very complicated. Human sexuality is far more complicated from a physiology standpoint than is ever addressed by the vast majority of religious leaders of all faiths. Catholic leaders have played it on the conservative side and locked human sexuality into a tiny box and burried it deep within the walls of Fort Knox. The problem is that if sexual morals were to be relaxed, the question must be asked: “Where does it stop”?

I’ve read some of the work from medical doctors on the topic of prostate health regarding regular ejaculation and there seems to be conflicting opinions. The medical profession isn’t sounding any alarms about any pressing need for men to do this. Perhaps that’s because there is no need. But the silence could be because they assume that men are already doing this. Getting a straight answer on this isn’t easy.

From a morality standpoint I think the Catholic Church is correct to stand against masturbation because it CAN become a substitute for intimacy even when there are no health issues that prevent normal activity with one’s wife. For singles as well as married folks, it can become a selfish, dirty and addictive and sinful habit. However once the wife (or husband) is sexually disabled perhaps there really should be some sort of provision for the remaining spouse.

 

[JacktheCatholic]

I see a lot of modern rationalization in this thread. Good is evil and evil is good. Oh how the devil has fooled us in these days.

The church has always been the interpretor of scripture and it is still the church that interprets. Individual interpretation is a lie and another evil that the devil strikes with.

The church s definitively interpreted that masturbation is a grave sin. It is contrary to creation and that is that…

We all have evil desires and this is part of this world’s nature. Let us not forget that this is not Heaven and that we are in battle with evil. Masaturbation goes against God’s will for us and it is only through the denial of Christ and placing our self int he center of our world that we fall victim to thinking masturbation is anything other than an evil. We are such fools…

 

[FiberZilla]

Well i fap everyday. usually 3 times per day. I still love god, and i dont think it says “no masturbating” in the bible, but im not to sure, so dont hold it against me.

Oddly enough, many young men are right there with you. Certainly I wouldn’t question your love for God either. However the frequency with which you are doing this suggests that you probably are headed toward sexual dysfunction should you get married sometime down the road. You really need to explore other outlets for your energy. Do you have a job? How are your personal relationships?

 

[Seatuck]

I think you pretty much answered the question. You refer to marital sex as normal. That’s right. The rest is abnormal.

Marriage is an opportunity to grow in love and generosity. Any woman who refuses to have sex for years is not exercising love and generosity. Just because a woman is not in the mood doesn’t mean she won’t have sex. It doesn’t take much effort to participate in the marital act even if you “aren’t in the mood”. The definition of being “in the mood” needs to change as well. When we make love in marriage we are renewing our marriage vows. That’s the meaning of it. We should be growing over the years of marriage toward a more spiritual experience if we didn’t have it in the beginning. Sex is part of a sacrament. It is a holy action. It should be transforming over the course of the sacrament. When this is not happening there are issues in the marriage. A husband who has issues with his wife’s weight is not exercising love and generosity. Or vice versa. Not saying people shouldn’t be working to improve or maintain health and fitness but we hear all about people refusing to have sex with an overweight spouse. Again, no love , no generosity.

Of course there are challenges throughout the course of a marriage. Mental, physical, emotional , etc. Children .Work , whatever. Loving spouses work through these. That’s what marriage is all about. Not resorting to a non marital activitiy.

 

[FiberZilla]

I see a lot of modern rationalization in this thread. Good is evil and evil is good. Oh how the devil has fooled us in these days…(snip)…
We all have evil desires and this is part of this world’s nature. Let us not forget that this is not Heaven and that we are in battle with evil.

Yes, absolutely! We have to be on guard against modern rationalization. We are indeed in a battle against evil and the world. But there is no denying that this can be a very complicated issue… far beyond what the church authorities have currently addressed.

It is the church’s denial of sexual issues that led to the tragic clergy sex abuse and subsequent cover-up scandals. In most cases, masturbation is likely going to be a sin. But this is a very complicated and delicate issue.

 

[FiberZilla]

A husband who has issues with his wife’s weight is not exercising love and generosity. Or vice versa. Not saying people shouldn’t be working to improve or maintain health and fitness but we hear all about people refusing to have sex with an overweight spouse. Again, no love , no generosity.

Of course there are challenges throughout the course of a marriage. Mental, physical, emotional , etc. Children .Work , whatever. Loving spouses work through these. That’s what marriage is all about. Not resorting to a non marital activitiy.

It is normal for folks to put on a few lbs with age. Men who berate their wives about this are clearly jerks. But suppose one’s darling spouse has balooned to a libido destroying, bed frame busting 400lbs? An afternoon trip to your local buffet shows that this is not an unusual thing these days. What then?

 

[Lauds]

Oddly enough, many young men are right there with you. Certainly I wouldn’t question your love for God either. However the frequency with which you are doing this suggests that you probably are headed toward sexual dysfunction should you get married sometime down the road. You really need to explore other outlets for your energy. Do you have a job? How are your personal relationships?

There is no way that masturbation will cause sexual dysfunction, if that is true, then everyone is sexually dysfunctional. Masturbation is a normal thing we all go through at one time or another & sometime we fight it all our lives. It`s better to masturbate, then to go aroung making babies all over the place before we are married, that are never cared for properly. Masturbation hurts no one

 

[Newbie2]

Masturbation hurts no one? Well, neither does Pornography, right?

“No way” that masturbation causes sexual dysfunction. Perhaps, if one does not consider addiction to masturbation a dysfunction.

“It`s better to masturbate, then to go aroung making babies all over the place before we are married, that are never cared for properly.”

The penultimate rationalization.

As if we’re all animals, unable to get control of our sexual desires. Using that rationalization, when we’re done having kids we should all have ourselves sterilized.

 

[Newbie2]

It is normal for folks to put on a few lbs with age. Men who berate their wives about this are clearly jerks. But suppose one’s darling spouse has balooned to a libido destroying, bed frame busting 400lbs? An afternoon trip to your local buffet shows that this is not an unusual thing these days. What then?

Marital and dietary counseling.

 

[OraLabora]

Marital and dietary counseling.

Indeed. For a man or woman at 400 pounds, sexual issues is the least of their worries. They have a major health problem leading to diabetes, heart disease, stroke, joint issues, you name it.

The sin of gluttony will do far more physical damage to you than the sin of masturbation.

 

[crazzeto]

Masturbation is disordered because it is a purely selfish act, which offers no glory to God what so ever. Worse yet, it is an act that will tend, over time to change your views on sex. Changing it from a sacramental marital act for the purposes of sharing a God like, procrative love in to a selfish, self gratifying act which leads to a series of other disordered sexual behaviours such as contracepting, premarital sex etc. Over time this changes our views on sexuality, relationships and marriage. Rather than two becoming one through a deep and commited love, people judge their relationships and get married because of how good the sex is. If the sex suddendly becomes non-gratifying they divorce, why? Because they got married because of the great sex to begin with, it’s the basis of their relationships.

Perhaps your initial reaction might be “well how can all that happen just because of masturbation?”. All I can suggest is you sit back and think about it for a bit, because masturbation (as well as contracepting) are very good examples of what a mortal sin is. A seemingly inocuous act, which has the capacity to take over your life entirely and drag you down in disordered behaviour after disordered behaviour. Worst of all, given enough time (not all that much actually, in the grand scheme of things) our changing sexual views resulting from these disordered sexual acts can permuate the culture (and they have, look at where we are after the continuing 1960’s so called “sexual revolution”).

 

[OraLabora]

A seemingly inocuous act, which has the capacity to take over your life entirely and drag you down in disordered behaviour after disordered behaviour.

You could argue the same thing about a glass of wine or beer taken alone starting a descent into alcoholism.

You could argue the same thing about surfing the Internet starting innocuously shopping for bargains, doing research for work or school, keeping in touch with friends, then descending into the darker side of things.

You could argue the same thing 50 years ago about the telephone, initially a great gadget to communicate that can be misused for gossip, spreading calumny and other parts of the dark side of human nature.

You could argue the same thing about a pleasurable meal being the start of the decline into gluttony.

We have as sinners the capacity to take any innocuous act, even acts with the potential for great good, and twisting them into dark evil.

 

[JBCatholicRN]

I believe this is something that every man struggles with. I am young and have a very beautiful (not just in my opinion) wife who also enjoys sex. When I find myself wanting to masturbate, I read scripture or find something else to do with my time. Yes I fail at this, but as others have said, it leads to other things such as pornography.
The world tells you masturbation is okay and doesn’t hurt anyone. As you have probably heard, we are not of this world.

 

[crazzeto]

You could argue the same thing about a glass of wine or beer taken alone starting a descent into alcoholism.

You could argue the same thing about surfing the Internet starting innocuously shopping for bargains, doing research for work or school, keeping in touch with friends, then descending into the darker side of things.

You could argue the same thing 50 years ago about the telephone, initially a great gadget to communicate that can be misused for gossip, spreading calumny and other parts of the dark side of human nature.

You could argue the same thing about a pleasurable meal being the start of the decline into gluttony.

We have as sinners the capacity to take any innocuous act, even acts with the potential for great good, and twisting them into dark evil.

No, actually not… In order to try and do what you’re attempting to do you have to take it not to the level of having a glass of wine, but of getting drunk which in fact is always sinful regardless of how it happened. Having a glass of wine doesn’t produce the same self serving “feel good” state that getting drunk does.

Masturbating however, does in fact reproduce the same feelings one gets from self gratifying disordered sexual behaviour. That’s why it’s sinful, and for the same reason getting drunk is always sinful. Nice try though.

 

[Newbie2]

You could argue the same thing about a glass of wine or beer taken alone starting a descent into alcoholism.

You could, but it such an argument is quite weak.

You could argue the same thing about surfing the Internet starting innocuously shopping for bargains, doing research for work or school, keeping in touch with friends, then descending into the darker side of things.

You could, but it such an argument is quite weak.

You could argue the same thing 50 years ago about the telephone, initially a great gadget to communicate that can be misused for gossip, spreading calumny and other parts of the dark side of human nature.

You could, but it such an argument is very, very weak.

You could argue the same thing about a pleasurable meal being the start of the decline into gluttony.

You could, but it such an argument is really without a shred of merit. One has to eat, one does not have to masturbate.

We have as sinners the capacity to take any innocuous act, even acts with the potential for great good, and twisting them into dark evil.