Masterbation uncertainty

[mellon00collie]

I am in the last year of my teens and up until now I have lived outside the word of God. I am now resolved to love him as much as he loves the whole world, yet on of my mental sticking points is masterbation. Jesus taught us to love and respect ourselves and our bodies, yet is masterbation disrespectful to one’s body. If I am hungry between meals I feed myself, likewise with thirst. If I am tired I rest myself. If I have an itch, (no pun intended) I scratch it. Therefor, why am I disallowed to to provide this particular type of releaf as long as I do not do it in contemt and ignorance of God? (please not, i’m not arguing a point, i’m seeking guidance in a manner):banghead:

 

[SteakNPotatoes]

I was told by a priest long ago (when I was about your age):

“Masturbation is like picking your nose. Just don’t do it in public.”

Of course, there are many others who will tell you it is a disordered practice and hence, a sin. I don’t agree - but then, I’m no longer Catholic either.

 

[PennitentMan]

I am in the last year of my teens and up until now I have lived outside the word of God. I am now resolved to love him as much as he loves the whole world, yet on of my mental sticking points is masterbation. Jesus taught us to love and respect ourselves and our bodies, yet is masterbation disrespectful to one’s body. If I am hungry between meals I feed myself, likewise with thirst. If I am tired I rest myself. If I have an itch, (no pun intended) I scratch it. Therefor, why am I disallowed to to provide this particular type of releaf as long as I do not do it in contemt and ignorance of God? (please not, i’m not arguing a point, i’m seeking guidance in a manner):banghead:

Hi there Mellon00collie. Thank you for asking this question here, I believe there are loads of very knowledeable people who would help you understand.

I’d like to ask you first off if you are Catholic? And do you believe that the Catholic Church hold the whole Truth?

Thanks!

 

[MariaGorettiGrl]

It does hurt your body and spirit in many real ways.

The immoral images you host while “scratching that itch” are not only sinful, but also begin to desensitize you to stimulation so that you have to find more and more before you can become as stimulated. This can make it hard or even impossible for a normal sexy woman to excite you. So then normal sex loses interest for you. Just take a moment to realize how backwards it would be that rather than spending an evening making love to your wife, you’d perfer to spend it alone with your hand down your pants. But it is common among masturbaters.

It’s also disrespecting the gift of sex that God gave us. The whole reason He gave us these urges was to let us enjoy the full experience. When you get hungry, do you eat dirt? When you get thirsty, do you drink oil? Then why would you do the equivalent when it comes to sex? Food was meant for our hunger, water for our thirst, and sex for our urges.

And the whole idea of when you’re hungry eat, thirsty drink, and…um…“itchy” then “scratch” isn’t a reasonable argument. What if a guy gets “itchy” for his girlfriend on a date. Does he have every right to “scratch” that “itch”? There are rapists who have used the argument that they just couldn’t help themselves. We MUST practice self control, even with ourselves.

If you truly love God, you have to accept ALL He commands, whether it makes sense to you or not. I really encourage you to trust in God on this one! He does know WAY more than we ever could.

 

[mellon00collie]

"Hi there Mellon00collie. Thank you for asking this question here, I believe there are loads of very knowledeable people who would help you understand.

I’d like to ask you first off if you are Catholic? And do you believe that the Catholic Church hold the whole Truth?

Thanks!"

Yes, I suppose I would be classified as a Catholic, though I believe that to hold with one organization or person “whole truth” is to say that this person/organization fully inderstands God, which isn’t possible. However, theirs is my chosen method to worship God

 

[mellon00collie]

It does hurt your body and spirit in many real ways.

The immoral images you host while “scratching that itch” are not only sinful, but also begin to desensitize you to stimulation so that you have to find more and more before you can become as stimulated. This can make it hard or even impossible for a normal sexy woman to excite you. So then normal sex loses interest for you. Just take a moment to realize how backwards it would be that rather than spending an evening making love to your wife, you’d perfer to spend it alone with your hand down your pants. But it is common among masturbaters.

It’s also disrespecting the gift of sex that God gave us. The whole reason He gave us these urges was to let us enjoy the full experience. When you get hungry, do you eat dirt? When you get thirsty, do you drink oil? Then why would you do the equivalent when it comes to sex? Food was meant for our hunger, water for our thirst, and sex for our urges.

And the whole idea of when you’re hungry eat, thirsty drink, and…um…“itchy” then “scratch” isn’t a reasonable argument. What if a guy gets “itchy” for his girlfriend on a date. Does he have every right to “scratch” that “itch”? There are rapists who have used the argument that they just couldn’t help themselves. We MUST practice self control, even with ourselves.

If you truly love God, you have to accept ALL He commands, whether it makes sense to you or not. I really encourage you to trust in God on this one! He does know WAY more than we ever could.

Thank you for your (name removed by moderator)ut

 

[dylanschrader]

Human sexuality has a purpose. Since we have rational souls, created in the image and likeness of God, we are more than just animals. However, beautifully, we are not angels–we have bodies as well as spirits.

This means that for human beings, bodily things have a purpose which must be determined by our rational nature. The purpose of human sexuality is procreation within the context of marriage. We can know this on the natural level because of the natural complementarity man and woman. A man and a woman together can beget children. There is also a very important spiritual element. Since our souls are the form of our bodies, sexual intercourse is a spiritual action which requires the commitment that the act naturally conveys.

Since the use of sexuality is a spiritual as well as a physical affair, it is wrong to use the sexual faculty outside of its intended purpose.

I recommend reading something by Christopher West for a much better explanation than I can give.

 

[dylanschrader]

Yes, I suppose I would be classified as a Catholic, though I believe that to hold with one organization or person “whole truth” is to say that this person/organization fully inderstands God, which isn’t possible. However, theirs is my chosen method to worship God

Not to get too off-topic, but the Church doesn’t claim to understand God fully–that is impossible to anyone except God. The Church simply claims to have the fullness of the truth that Christ willed. This is not supposed to sound triumphalistic. The Church simply recognizes with great humility this gift that Christ gave to the world when he established the Catholic Church. Her “possession” of the truth is a gift from God and not something that the Church has merited herself.

 

[Dranu]

Yes, I suppose I would be classified as a Catholic, though I believe that to hold with one organization or person “whole truth” is to say that this person/organization fully inderstands God, which isn’t possible. However, theirs is my chosen method to worship God

On my road to conversion this is something I struggled with at first. It certainly takes humility and love to concede to God’s plan and truth. The Church has the fullness of truth because it is God’s truth. Like Dylanschrader said it doesn’t mean there aren’t Holy Mysteries, just that the Church is has the fullness of truth. If your like me and come from a society that exalts the individual self, then it can be harder to break those tendencies for self-interpretation of morality. All I have to say is seek and you will find.
My prayers are with you as far as overcoming masturbation goes. I think the first thing you can do to fight it, is to pray and recognize what it realy is, it is extremely oppressive. Read about the Church’s stance on sexuality, and you may be able see the bigger picture better. It will be a battle, trust me! If you fall down get right back up, and don’t despair. Trade the hot firebrand of lust for the cool refreshment of chastity. If you chose to, with God’s help, you’ll get through it I know it!

God Bless.

Oh and heres a link I found very useful to help understand things you must abide by (you should seek understanding, but to have dificulty understanding them (the things you should abide by) is not wrong, but to deny them is) in faith as a catholic, another poster showed it to me not too long ago. ewtn.com/library/Theology/SUMMARY.HTM
hope it helps some.

 

[SteakNPotatoes]

The immoral images… also begin to desensitize you to stimulation so that you have to find more and more before you can become as stimulated. This can make it hard or even impossible for a normal sexy woman to excite you. So then normal sex loses interest for you. Just take a moment to realize how backwards it would be that rather than spending an evening making love to your wife, you’d perfer to spend it alone with your hand down your pants. But it is common among masturbaters.

You have a theory. I have experience which tells me otherwise. My experience trumps your theory. What you say here is completely untrue.

There is nothing, nothing physically unhealthy about occasional masturbation.

If you wish to make a case that it is unhealthy spiritually, then by all means go ahead, but don’t even try to suggest that spanking the monkey causes physical harm. It is simply not true.

 

[Dranu]

I would say there is no doubt it is spiritualy harmful, but in a material sense, I would argue it can also be psychologicaly harmful, but psychology is half philosophy.

I don’t know enough myself to argue anythign about actual physical harm, but alot of evil things can benifit you materialy, while destroying your soul.

 

[blessedtoo]

Jesus taught us to love and respect ourselves and our bodies, yet is masterbation disrespectful to one’s body.

First, dear friend, I MUST correct you on your spelling (because this one drives me CRAZY): it’s masturbation.

If I am hungry between meals I feed myself, likewise with thirst. If I am tired I rest myself. If I have an itch, (no pun intended) I scratch it.

Eating food has a purpose. We eat to provide our bodies with calories which convert to energy which allows us to function. Without food, we would die. There is the element of pleasure to eating however, if we ONLY ate for the pleasure of it, that would be a DISORDER. People who eat compulsively and become grossly obese have a disorder. Likewise, people who suffer with bulimia will binge to obtain the pleasure of food but then try to rid themselves of the calories (or necessary nutrients). This is also a disorder. This same principal could be applied to all the examples you gave, i.e., sleeping too much, itching compulsively. When you attempt to separate and abuse the pleasure of something from it’s purpose, you create disorder.

Therefor, why am I disallowed to to provide this particular type of releaf as long as I do not do it in contemt and ignorance of God?

The purpose of sex is unitive AND procreative within the confines of marriage. Masturbation, a solitary and selfish act, separates the pleasure from the purpose. Make sense?

 

[Dranu]

Eating food has a purpose. We eat to provide our bodies with calories which convert to energy which allows us to function. Without food, we would die. There is the element of pleasure to eating however, if we ONLY ate for the pleasure of it, that would be a DISORDER. People who eat compulsively and become grossly obese have a disorder. Likewise, people who suffer with bulimia will binge to obtain the pleasure of food but then try to rid themselves of the calories (or necessary nutrients). This is also a disorder. This same principal could be applied to all the examples you gave, i.e., sleeping too much, itching compulsively. When you attempt to separate and abuse the pleasure of something from it’s purpose, you create disorder.

Very good point Blessedtoo!

 

[wjp984]

I go back and forth in my opinions on this topic based on what different priests tell me and what I like to pick and choose to believe. I believe masterbation to be a sin but I don’t think it always warrants not receiving communion. If one knows it is wrong, tries to stop but occasionally slips up then I don’t think it is a mortal sin.

 

[MariaGorettiGrl]

You have a theory. I have experience which tells me otherwise. My experience trumps your theory.

Did I mention I was a “recovered” masturbater? :tiphat: I’m not talking theories any more than you are.

If you don’t believe it desensitizes you, then you shouldn’t need anything new to stimulate you. The images you already have in your head are enough. Here’s a theory: I bet you don’t use the same old images. I bet you buy new magazines/movies or search the internet for new stuff frequently. Why do you think the porn industry is so successful. The old stuff won’t do you for long.

Not to mention masturbation is addicting. Anything that takes hold of you as an addiction is not healthy.

Physically, I got a rash on my legs and, though it’s been some time now, that area is still prone to getting rashes easily. Masturbating also made it difficult to urinate when I needed.

If you want more info from others who are “experienced”, I recommend reading the other thread about masturbation under Moral Theology. There is a guy who has been masturbating and having marital problems.

 

[Timidity]

I believe masterbation [sic] to be a sin but I don’t think it always warrants not receiving communion. If one knows it is wrong, tries to stop but occasionally slips up then I don’t think it is a mortal sin.

Let’s try “the substitution game” and see if this is a valid principle:

“I believe murder to be a sin but I don’t think it always warrants not receiving communion. If one knows it is wrong, tries to stop but occasionally slips up then I don’t think it is a mortal sin.” Hmmm. Don’t so, but maybe that substitution was too severe.

“I believe stealing to be a sin but I don’t think it always warrants not receiving communion. If one knows it is wrong, tries to stop but occasionally slips up then I don’t think it is a mortal sin.”

Hmm. That one might work in the case of someone with a psychological disorder like kleptomania, as the disorder would take away the full consent of the will. So, I guess I can agree with you if by “slip up” you mean “falls prey to their psychological disorder/immaturity” then I might agree.

 

[blessedtoo]

I believe masterbation to be a sin but I don’t think it always warrants not receiving communion. If one knows it is wrong, tries to stop but occasionally slips up then I don’t think it is a mortal sin.

“Slipping up” does not invalidate the “grave” nature of this sin. Depending on the circumstances (addiction being one), it may minimize the culpability, but it is still a grave matter. Phrased as above, the person who “knows it is wrong”, has already satisfied one of the requirements on mortal sin (Grievous matter) and should seek a confessor to examine the extent of one’s participation in the remaining two requirements (Sufficient reflection, Full consent of the will).

 

[SteakNPotatoes]

If you don’t believe it desensitizes you, then you shouldn’t need anything new to stimulate you. The images you already have in your head are enough.

There are two types of stimulation we are talking about here: Physical and mental. Regarding the former, there is no physical desensitization resulting from occasional masturbation. None. Talk to any reputable health professional and they will tell you the same. As for mental stimulation, I would ask you this: Do you ever go out to see new movies? Do you ever read new books? Do you watch new shows on TV? The fact is our minds enjoy being stimulated by new and different images and ideas.

I don’t get as excited about Gilligan’s Island these days as I do about Lost. Have I been desensitized to Gilligan’s Island? Perhaps. The fact is that we are all in search of novelty.

Does my desire for mental stimulation mean I am no longer attracted to my wife? Heck no! But I am not here to defend my sex life…

Here’s a theory: I bet you don’t use the same old images. I bet you buy new magazines/movies or search the internet for new stuff frequently. Why do you think the porn industry is so successful. The old stuff won’t do you for long.

Here’s another theory: I bet you don’t just read the same old books again and again, or watch the same old movies to the exclusion of all else. I bet you subscribe to magazines that have new content every month (Home & Garden, Popular Mechanics, etc.). I bet you visit new internet sites all the time for topics of interest to you. Why do you think Hollywood, book publishing companies, and TV Networks are so successful? The old stuff won’t do you for long.

Not to mention masturbation is addicting. Anything that takes hold of you as an addiction is not healthy.

Physically, I got a rash on my legs and, though it’s been some time now, that area is still prone to getting rashes easily. Masturbating also made it difficult to urinate when I needed.

I suspect you would not have had any of these problems as the result of occasional masturbation. Did you ever see a doctor about the rash? Did he/she tell you it was the result of masturbation?

I could say that nose-picking is addictive as well. It is a benign activity that is best left to be done in private. But if one is picking his nose to the exclusion of all else, then I would suspect the “nose-picking” is a symptom of deeper problems. Don’t confuse the symptom for the disease.

I submit the point that I have been making all along, that occasional masturbation is not sinful, not abnormal, and not unhealthy. Anything taken to extremes can be unhealthy (like religion, perhaps?). Like most everything else, moderation is the key.

If you want more info from others who are “experienced”, I recommend reading the other thread about masturbation under Moral Theology. There is a guy who has been masturbating and having marital problems.

Oh, so obviously masturbation = marriage problems. Ridiculous. Clearly there are other issues involved. Masturbation is not an inherently evil act.

 

[blessedtoo]

I don’t get as excited about Gilligan’s Island these days as I do about Lost. Have I been desensitized to Gilligan’s Island? Perhaps. The fact is that we are all in search of novelty.

Sorry, Steak but this is hardly analagous to using porn. Gilligan’s Island, while it may be addictive for some, is not going to cause the same harmful effects as an addiction to viewing pornography, which completely objectifies and demeans women. These images, which depict women as beautiful playthings in extreme sexual situations, will eventually begin to erode the way in which a man views a woman. Whether it happens on a conscious level at first, or later manifests itself in other ways, it will eventually happen. With porn, it has been studied that images that once provided erotic stimulation, over time, lose their potency and the viewer requires ever more explicit material to get the job done. When Playboy magazine first hit the stands, it was THE ultimate in pornography. No one had every seen such explicit images before in mainstream society. But it didn’t take long for society to tire of the “tease” of Playboy and move on the more revealing Penthouse. And from that filthy rag, we have the wonderful world of porn today.

 

[PennitentMan]

The thread have taken a left turn somewhere.

The OP asked about masturbation, and he asked to understand it as a Catholic.

SteakNPotatoes is defending his own reasinging on the subject, but let me address the OP.

Mellon00collie, to get back you your question.
I’m very happy to hear that you want to please God as much as possible and that you want to do it as apracticing Catholic.

I’m not the best authority on the subject, since I have been questioning it as well , but let me share my findings here:

So, first, to be a Catholic and receive Jesus in the Eucharist, we need to adhere to the rules of Mother Church, even if we do not fully understand them. I can tell you this, because I have abstained, even through all my questioning.

Okay, the teachings of the Catholic faith is about the good of our souls.
People sometimes only think about the physical, but neglect their souls.
And while there may not be anything physically wrong with masturbation, when approaching things as practicing Catholics, we must also consider the spiritual aspect and our immortal souls.
This brings us to consider our Creator…God and how he made us.
From this point of view we approach the Catechism, that contains the teachigns of the Faith, as laid out by the Early Church Fathers.

*2352 By masturbation is to be understood the deliberate stimulation of the genital organs in order to derive sexual pleasure. “Both the Magisterium of the Church, in the course of a constant tradition, and the moral sense of the faithful have been in no doubt and have firmly maintained that masturbation is an intrinsically and gravely disordered action.” “The deliberate use of the sexual faculty, for whatever reason, outside of marriage is essentially contrary to its purpose.” For here sexual pleasure is sought outside of “the sexual relationship which is demanded by the moral order and in which the total meaning of mutual self-giving and human procreation in the context of true love is achieved.”

To form an equitable judgment about the subjects’ moral responsibility and to guide pastoral action, one must take into account the affective immaturity, force of acquired habit, conditions of anxiety or other psychological or social factors that lessen, if not even reduce to a minimum, moral culpability.*

Okay, first they say here that it is a grave act. This is the first requirement for mortal sin.
So, if you engage in grave matter, with full knowledge of what you are about to do, and you give yourself freely to this act, you commit a mortal sin, and hence remove yourself from the grace of God.

They also say that it’s not what God planned us to use our sexuality for. God intended for us to use it in marraige, for pro-creative and unitive aspects. This is where sex is good and right.
Masturbating takes the focus away from the unity of marraige and abuses the faciliites for something it was not intended for.

Again, please know that we are considering this from a Catholic standpoint for the good of our souls.

Please let me kon wif you have more questions or if I can clarify anything for you? I’ll try my best.

In Christ,
PM