Masterbation uncertainty

[PennitentMan]

Seriously? I don’t know what sex you are, but being male myself, it is like taking a shower, seriously. If this is regarded as a sin, then taking a shower is a sin.

Think about it, men’s semen gets replenished constantly, and about every two weeks, it is completely recycled…if not “used” then, it will come out in a “wet dream.” It’s like if you don’t shower, you will smell.

Well, if I base this response on the other thread you started than you are really confused and uninformed about Catholic teachings.

Are you Catholic, or just posting your own protestant conclusions on a Catholic board?

PM

 

[larry85704]

Well, consider this. Nobody has brought this up yet.

If you are married and you need to relieve yourself then I would think you would need to have more sex. Now what is wrong with that line of reasoning?

If you are not married you need to get married. Unless you are really screwed up it is not all that hard to get married. Anybody that is a good Christian, Catholics Jew or Muslim should have no trouble getting married. If you say you have the vocation to be single and have trouble with this topic then maybe God didn’t give you the vocation you think He did. God is not a tormenter.

I guess my point is that if masturbation bothers you do something about it.

 

[PennitentMan]

Well, consider this. Nobody has brought this up yet.

If you are married and you need to relieve yourself then I would think you would need to have more sex. Now what is wrong with that line of reasoning?

If you are not married you need to get married. Unless you are really screwed up it is not all that hard to get married. Anybody that is a good Christian, Catholics Jew or Muslim should have no trouble getting married. If you say you have the vocation to be single and have trouble with this topic then maybe God didn’t give you the vocation you think He did. God is not a tormenter.

I guess my point is that if masturbation bothers you do something about it.

Thakns for the post. The issue goes quite deeper than that for me personally, but I wanted to mention that to have sex should not be the only reason one gets married. There are so much more to marraige than just sex. Youneed to be compatible and be willing and ready to live with that person for the rest of your life.

 

[larry85704]

Sex can be a troubling topic. The Church teaches us to respect each other in marriage and to respect ourselves outside of marriage. Seems like a good idea. But when it comes to sex many people are telling us what to do with a much louder voice than the Church. Even the Church does not uniformly teach the same thing on this subject. But why the fuss?

Well, if following the Church’s teaching was easy there wouldn’t be any fuss. If men and women felt dirty after relieving themselves maybe there wouldn’t be any fuss. I think the Church needs to say more on this topic to help people with chastity and sex.

I think having a baby out of wedlock is wrong and also having one when married but knowing the marriage will not last is wrong. Having babies that are not loved is sin #1. This sin is more undersireable than many other sins associated with sex. Cheating on a spouse is sin #2. Certainly undesireable but less so than #1. I’d say not having a good sex life in a marriage is #3 because it leads to #2, or it can. Playing with ones self is probably #4. #4 can be worse than #3 but usually not. It is possible to have a good sex life in a marriage and relieve yourself by yourself. Should you do it? No, but it is possible to please your spouse and still do it.

Our Church places restraints on our sex life. If we want to have sex and would have a baby if we did and we don’t want to have a baby the Church says not to have sex. What the Church also says is that you must be open to having kids in a marriage. It is not ok to use NFP to never have children.

The scriptural basis for saying masturbation is wrong comes from the Old Testament. We are told not to spill our seed on the ground. The real issue in the Old Testament concerned getting a woman pregnant, not where a man’s seed went.

It is possible to be happy and live in a marriage and never have the sin of masturbation. You need partners that are sexually willing and intune to the needs of each other. For example, you need wife’s that will tell their husbands “I need to have sex tonight” That happens all the time, doesn’t it. No, we have been trained to repress our sexual desires because it is dirty. Well that is sin #5. Enough for now.

God Bless

 

[One_of_Faith]

An interesting topic and choice on which to make my first official post, but this is an issue that I am happy to see being discussed openly (though still anonymously in a forum).

It’s wrong, and most everyone has admitted that. However, it appears to me that what is missing from this discussion (though I admit to not having read all of the posts) is how to cope with this certainty. To that end, I humbly offer the following thoughts:

• Pray to St. Joseph. He was a man, and a great man at that. As a husband and a father, I imagine that he dealt with this issue (at least it gives me comfort to think that he did)
• Say a “Hail Mary” whenever lustful thoughts enter your mind. At times it seems that I’m doing nothing but saying this prayer, but even that makes me smile at my weakness and gets my mind on other things
• Most importantly, don’t “over-dwell” on this. Spiritual growth can be severely stifled by obsessing on this issue (if that applies to you). The devil could very directly be playing on your concern about this issue to keep you from developing in other areas.
• Read about the lives of saints. Some of them had to deal with some serious issues. Masturbation certainly appears to pale in comparison to what they had to deal with.

That’s all I have to say about that…Hopefully, someone can use even one of the above points, or maybe it will stimulate (pardon the pun) other coping strategies. But in the end, this advice plus a couple of dollars are barely sufficient to buy you a cup of coffee.

 

[crocetta]

There is a website about House of Virgin Mary where also Popes have made pilgramige. I highly recommend you.
www.traveltofaith.com

 

[searching06]

An interesting topic and choice on which to make my first official post, but this is an issue that I am happy to see being discussed openly (though still anonymously in a forum).

It’s wrong, and most everyone has admitted that. However, it appears to me that what is missing from this discussion (though I admit to not having read all of the posts) is how to cope with this certainty. To that end, I humbly offer the following thoughts:

• Pray to St. Joseph. He was a man, and a great man at that. As a husband and a father, I imagine that he dealt with this issue (at least it gives me comfort to think that he did)
• Say a “Hail Mary” whenever lustful thoughts enter your mind. At times it seems that I’m doing nothing but saying this prayer, but even that makes me smile at my weakness and gets my mind on other things
• Most importantly, don’t “over-dwell” on this. Spiritual growth can be severely stifled by obsessing on this issue (if that applies to you). The devil could very directly be playing on your concern about this issue to keep you from developing in other areas.
• Read about the lives of saints. Some of them had to deal with some serious issues. Masturbation certainly appears to pale in comparison to what they had to deal with.

That’s all I have to say about that…Hopefully, someone can use even one of the above points, or maybe it will stimulate (pardon the pun) other coping strategies. But in the end, this advice plus a couple of dollars are barely sufficient to buy you a cup of coffee.

PM, I admire your honesty and courage. You hit it on the head about the temptation when the house is quiet. I struggle every day as you do, but I can say that for whatever reason, this forum has been a help. Probably keeping me occupied on finding answers. I have to also believe it is very much the grace of God.

One of Faith, you nailed it above as well and PM, this is actually helping me - try not to focus on it so much. I know personally the more I try to find an answer that I want or a loophole or reason it all away, the more frustrated I am. I get in a bad mood and then I worry about my affect on my family. The cycle never seems to stop and I’m tired. But I have had several different priests tell me the same as One of Faith noted - dwelling on it makes it worse; beating yourself when you fall makes it worse; and the devil is very much looking for that to happen, because you’re already weak and it is easier to say “what the heck, I’ve already screwed up.” And from there I get into negative self-talk, put myself down for being weak, get mad again at God and life, and I can easily imagine the devill laughing at me. Sounds like I’m crazy, but it the cycle if I find myself in, and that I’m breaking.

The other thing that hits me (I’ve always thought this, but this forum confirms it) is that I do have other issues to discuss with my wife; I’ve buried my feelings and disappointments on things for years, partially because it will change nothing to talk about it, and partially to keep from hurting her. But the point is that sex or the lack of it is easier to blame for a lack of intimacy and other problems because it is one thing we think can control. Or it gives a sense of control because we tend to keep God out of it. I’m hoping this even makes sense.

Enough rambling - God bless.

 

[PennitentMan]

The other thing that hits me (I’ve always thought this, but this forum confirms it) is that I do have other issues to discuss with my wife; I’ve buried my feelings and disappointments on things for years, partially because it will change nothing to talk about it, and partially to keep from hurting her. But the point is that sex or the lack of it is easier to blame for a lack of intimacy and other problems because it is one thing we think can control. Or it gives a sense of control because we tend to keep God out of it. I’m hoping this even makes sense.

Enough rambling - God bless.

I’m only responding now, your words took some time to sink in…

I do agree with you to a point, but in my case it’s reversed, I think.

I feel like, since we have been having these intimacy problems, things that was usually ok and that I glanced over without a second glance, now becomes very much points of frustrations for me. Little character traits, mannerisms, etc…I am more sensitive around her and with her being someone who overreacts quickly, it’s very hard for me to be the same loving caring person I used to be…it seems like the intimacy is the root of the problem, but it’s spreading.
I was on my knees last night asking for the Lord for his Grace to deal with this, to look past the small things, like I have done in the past, untill our intimacy is bac where it should be…and for his Grace for that too.
Honestly, the only thing that has changed that could possible make me feel this way is our intimacy.

And, once again, talking doesn’t help…even if we do talk, nothing has changed, except words…Intimacy is still the same…levels of passion is still the same and she denies that she is the cause of that.
In fact she contest that no woman can ever be blamed for any man’s masturbation, addiction or infidelity…ever…

 

[davidv]

In fact she contest that no woman can ever be blamed for any man’s masturbation, addiction or infidelity…ever…

I happen to agree with her. No one else can be blamed for our sins. We make the choice to commit them. Only we are to blame, if blame must be placed. we are responsible for our choices.

 

[PennitentMan]

I happen to agree with her. No one else can be blamed for our sins. We make the choice to commit them. Only we are to blame, if blame must be placed. we are responsible for our choices.

Get to where I am and then we’ll talk…

Having said that, maybe blame is not the best choice of words, but maybe “cause” would be better…?

 

[searching06]

If it helps any, I got your point. Maybe not blame or even cause, but definitely a point at which temptation creeps in. Can’t think of the word…a fuse or stimulus? I understand…

 

[PennitentMan]

If it helps any, I got your point. Maybe not blame or even cause, but definitely a point at which temptation creeps in. Can’t think of the word…a fuse or stimulus? I understand…

Primer…catalyst?

Thanks

 

[RichP]

I do agree with you to a point, but in my case it’s reversed, I think.

I feel like, since we have been having these intimacy problems, things that was usually ok and that I glanced over without a second glance, now becomes very much points of frustrations for me. Little character traits, mannerisms, etc…I am more sensitive around her and with her being someone who overreacts quickly, it’s very hard for me to be the same loving caring person I used to be…

Do you feel like you are constantly wandering around in a minefield? Afraid that with one wrong step you are going to get your legs blown off? or worse? Been there… quite a bit…

it seems like the intimacy is the root of the problem, but it’s spreading.
I was on my knees last night asking for the Lord for his Grace to deal with this, to look past the small things, like I have done in the past, untill our intimacy is bac where it should be…and for his Grace for that too.
Honestly, the only thing that has changed that could possible make me feel this way is our intimacy.

I need to ask… are you only talking about sexual/physical intimacy? There are other types of intimacy, emotional, intellectual, spiritual. How is the intimacy in those areas? If intimacy in those areas are are lacking, its no surprise that there are issues with sexual/physical intimacy. It is like having an 8-cyl car with only 2-cyl working… You are not going to get very far very fast…

I don’t recall you mentioning how long this has been going on. The next step might be to consult a therapist to investigate a couple of things. First might be to work on communcation methods. If you two are talking and not fixing anything, then either what you are saying or how you are saying or listening is messing things up.

Talking and listening should help if done correctly…

And, once again, talking doesn’t help…even if we do talk, nothing has changed, except words…Intimacy is still the same…levels of passion is still the same and she denies that she is the cause of that.
In fact she contest that no woman can ever be blamed for any man’s masturbation, addiction or infidelity…ever…

Remember what you promised on your wedding day? Something like “for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health, in good times and in bad…” Did you add a clause stating that during one of those bad times, when there are problems with sexual intimacy that you can use self-gratification to help you cope? I don’t think so… Did you promise that if times are really rough for you that you’d be a loving husband and suck it up?

Finally, are you two praying together? saying the Rosary together? If you two are talking with God together, it might help fix some of the communication issues… Just a thought…

 

[PennitentMan]

Do you feel like you are constantly wandering around in a minefield? Afraid that with one wrong step you are going to get your legs blown off? or worse? Been there… quite a bit…

Not really, that bad, but to a degree…yes.

I need to ask… are you only talking about sexual/physical intimacy? There are other types of intimacy, emotional, intellectual, spiritual. How is the intimacy in those areas?

Other parts of intimacy is very good. I take care to try and cover all 5 “love languages” for her on a regular basis…just this week alone:
Brought home flowers
Gave back rub
Gave her “night off” to go to a coffee shop or similar to get away from the house/child
Cooked dinner
Wash dishes
Vacuum
Feed, put baby to sleep.
Spend quality time with her after baby is asleep every night
lie in bed chatting about her day and her struggles and feelings…

Ah…I"m sure you get the idea.

I don’t recall you mentioning how long this has been going on. The next step might be to consult a therapist to investigate a couple of things. First might be to work on communication methods. If you two are talking and not fixing anything, then either what you are saying or how you are saying or listening is messing things up.

Talking and listening should help if done correctly…

It’s been close on two years now. We have talked about it and she doesn’t think (still doesn’t, as of two nights ago) think a therapist is necessary.
Like I mentioned above, I really listen to her and we talk, our communication is very good and open, but there is a block…
I think she is denying the extent of the problem…or realises it and needs time to fix it.
I’m giving her the time she needs and I’ll see if this gets better. If it doesn’t, I’ll be more forceful in getting a therapist.

Remember what you promised on your wedding day? Something like “for richer or poorer, in sickness and in health, in good times and in bad…” Did you add a clause stating that during one of those bad times, when there are problems with sexual intimacy that you can use self-gratification to help you cope? I don’t think so… Did you promise that if times are really rough for you that you’d be a loving husband and suck it up?

Exactly. That is why I’m not going against Church teachings. I’m not having an affair, watching porn or masturbating…I try to be supportive, encouraging and talk about it. I remain faithful and loving.
Temptation is just rampant right now though

Finally, are you two praying together? saying the Rosary together? If you two are talking with God together, it might help fix some of the communication issues… Just a thought…

We pray together every night. It’s really great.

Thank you Rich for your questions and taking the time to post!

I really love my wife and I’m concerned for our relationship…
To be 100% honest, I really would like that “elusive loophole” since it would ease things very much, but I do remain faithful to my wife and the Church.

PM

 

[gam197]

originally posted by davidv
I happen to agree with her. No one else can be blamed for our sins. We make the choice to commit them. Only we are to blame, if blame must be placed. we are responsible for our choices

.

The sin is also hers. The catholic church teaches that women have to submit to their husbands. If she is refusing to do that then that is her sin.

I always struggled with this sin myself so I understand it well. My husband could have cared less on submission in any other area of our life. However here it was a need not a want of his. I did not understand that need. I believe that is why submission was placed in the marriage vows. A wife that does not submit is committing a sin and needs to confess it. She also needs to learn to trust her husband and God and that may or may not happen.

 

[PennitentMan]

.

The sin is also hers. The catholic church teaches that women have to submit to their husbands. If she is refusing to do that then that is her sin.

I always struggled with this sin myself so I understand it well. My husband could have cared less on submission in any other area of our life. However here it was a need not a want of his. I did not understand that need. I believe that is why submission was placed in the marriage vows. A wife that does not submit is committing a sin and needs to confess it. She also needs to learn to trust her husband and God and that may or may not happen.

Thank you Gam197 for the honesty.

I suggested this in a thread a while ago and got shut down for it!

I was told this by a priest too…

PM

 

[setter]

.

The sin is also hers. The catholic church teaches that women have to submit to their husbands. If she is refusing to do that then that is her sin.

What if the husband is not attempting to model Christ and uses her submission to his own selfish wants and needs?

 

[cor]

Eating food has a purpose. We eat to provide our bodies with calories which convert to energy which allows us to function. Without food, we would die. There is the element of pleasure to eating however, if we ONLY ate for the pleasure of it, that would be a DISORDER. People who eat compulsively and become grossly obese have a disorder.

I agree that those who eat compulsively and as a result become grossly obese have a moral disorder, but I’m not sure that every case of eating for pleasure alone is a sin. For example would it be a sin to eat a piece of candy for the pleasure of it alone (It has no nutritional value, if you think sugar has nutritional value, then let’s stipulate that it’s sweetened with an artificial sweetner)? I also don’t think by the way that it is a sin to have sex for pleasure alone – there’s no Church teaching which says that that’s a sin. As long as it is physically open to life and all, having a partial motivation doesn’t make it a sin (just as going to confession out of fear of Hell doesn’t make going to confession a sin! – ideally we are to go out of pure love for God but going out of imperfect contrition aka attrition is OK too)

I would say that those who eat for pleasure alone to such an extent that it is to the detriment of their health are sinning and possessing a moral disorder. Maybe that’s what you originally meant

 

[PennitentMan]

What if the husband is not attempting to model Christ and uses her submission to his own selfish wants and needs?

Then the husband is sinning. That would be lust on his part.

 

[blessedtoo]

I agree that those who eat compulsively and as a result become grossly obese have a moral disorder, but I’m not sure that every case of eating for pleasure alone is a sin. For example would it be a sin to eat a piece of candy for the pleasure of it alone (It has no nutritional value, if you think sugar has nutritional value, then let’s stipulate that it’s sweetened with an artificial sweetner)? I also don’t think by the way that it is a sin to have sex for pleasure alone – there’s no Church teaching which says that that’s a sin. As long as it is physically open to life and all, having a partial motivation doesn’t make it a sin (just as going to confession out of fear of Hell doesn’t make going to confession a sin! – ideally we are to go out of pure love for God but going out of imperfect contrition aka attrition is OK too)

I would say that those who eat for pleasure alone to such an extent that it is to the detriment of their health are sinning and possessing a moral disorder. Maybe that’s what you originally meant

Actually, the rest of my post said this:

Likewise, people who suffer with bulimia will binge to obtain the pleasure of food but then try to rid themselves of the calories (or necessary nutrients). This is also a disorder.

My point was that when one attempts to separate the pleasure from the purpose, as in the case of bulimia, one exhibits symptoms of a disorder.

A couple that contracepts is separating pleasure from purpose.

A person who masturbates is separating pleasure from purpose.