Masturbation: A desperate wife needs to know

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This other talk about divorce…getting yours finally, etc. is really our sad society talking through us.

Your struggle is/has been enormous and you’ve done so well in your perseverance.

I don’t want to be unhelpful, but your husband’s soul needs you. He will spin out and down without you. Someone above made a similar point. God gave him you!

Both my wife and I found those TOB tapes referenced above very helpful…the teens at our parish did as well. Even though they’re aimed for teens…they are rooted in some pretty practical theology from our great JPII, and they’re helpful especially for people who don’t know what true love is, what is the purpose of their life, their own body.

In the end, masturbation is a selfish act, a lack of self-giving, self donation, a lack of wanting, working toward self-giving union.
 
Edward_H said:
I am not a counselor or psychologist. My read of this situation is that your husband doesn’t understand the true meaning of married Love, from a Catholic perspective.

Love is total self-donation. It’s not mutual gratification; it’s not reciprocal exchange of pleasure. It’s total giving. Free, total, faithful, fruitful.
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What you say is very true of course. Unfortunately though, in our broken, fallen world, many of us carry deep wounds that have totally screwed up our notions of the Gospel ideal, be it towards married love, or towards life in general.

Some people for instance have to struggle for years with the effect of sexual abuse suffered in childhood, from the most trusted people in the household. For folks who suffered through this, their sexuality in adult life can become a minefield. It’s not easy to break the patterns that these life-altering events cause. And it’s one reason I get angry when I hear people say “it’s a mortal sin”, as if they know the state of a person’s soul. Ask a man, for instance, that suffered abuse from his mother (yes, it does happen, I know of one case), how easy it is for him to relate normally to his wife and show her affection.

I have no idea what prompted the OP’s husband to fall into the pattern he has fallen into. He perhaps is hiding a dark, past secret. The case I spoke about above, the man abused by his mother, kept it a secret until his 50s. He has since sought therapy after a meltdown coming from having to hide it for so long. Or perhaps the OP’s husband just picked up a bad habit. Whatever the cause though, he needs to take the bull by the horns though, or it will cost him his marriage. He needs therapy from a therapist competent in this field, and he needs concurrently, good spiritual direction.

My wife is a family physician, and she sees people coming to her clinic every day with deep wounds from the past, that have turned into sexual issues, alcoholism, drug abuse, etc. It’s amazing the hell that a surprisingly large proportion of the population have had to put up with, even those from seemingly “good” families. I don’t know if the number is increasing, or if in the past we couldn’t look past the alcoholism and drug abuse to the root cause, or if it was simply something unspeakable 40 years ago, or if by secularization we’ve lost our moral compasses and thus our strongest tools to fight these issues, but it is a huge problem in society.
 
Edward_H said:
This other talk about divorce…getting yours finally, etc. is really our sad society talking through us.

Your struggle is/has been enormous and you’ve done so well in your perseverance.
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After 20+ years of being “second choice” if at all, I must disagree that I’ve “done so well in (my) perseverance.” I have been damaged… emotionally and spiritually. That’s what addictions tend to do to spouses, sexual addiction especially because it acts specifically against marital fidelity.

Also, I have to disagree that my husband’s soul “needs” me. It needs God and, all that my peserverance has gotten my husband so far is more entrenched in his addictive behavior and, therefore, possibly further from God.
Both my wife and I found those TOB tapes referenced above very helpful…the teens at our parish did as well…In the end, masturbation is a selfish act, a lack of self-giving, self donation, a lack of wanting, working toward self-giving union.
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I agree with everything that you’ve stated here, but only in reference to the typical individual. My husband is addicted to the chemical changes that happen in his brain as the result of lusting. My years of pleading, crying, trying anything that I could… didn’t help. Even ten years of abstinence on my part, didn’t drive him to get help so that he could return to my waiting arms. His issue is far more than merely engaging in a selfish act.

Maybe my husband’s actions were as simple as selfisness for some period in his life, some time between the ages of 8 and 20. However, somewhere in that period, his brain crossed the line into addiction. He has told me that if I hadn’t threatened to end his way of life, hadn’t told him that I was truly ready to leave the relationship and possibly to seek an anulment, he would not have changed. It would have been the same as all his other promises to stop. After all, he had spent all our married life hating what he couldn’t stop. No amounf of my pleading or crying or trying to help him, no amount of guilt or fear of hell after a heart incident could keep him chaste for more than 6 weeks, that was until I gave my ultimatum. This is classic behavior for the addict.

I appreciate that you are trying to help, Edward, and (as I said) for the normal person, your ideas may help. I’m replying at length here because I don’t want another wife of a sex addict to read your post and think that there’s something that she hasn’t yet done to save her husband from this horrible addiction. I’ve lived that lie. It is a most painful way to live.
 
OraLabora said:
I have no idea what prompted the OP’s husband to fall into the pattern he has fallen into.
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For my husband, it appears that it’s a matter of falling into a pattern after finding pornography at the age of 8 and discovering self-satisfaction. I’m convinced that his obsessive compulsive behaviors, at the very least, fed into his addiction.
 
christin said:
After 20+ years of being “second choice” if at all, I must disagree that I’ve “done so well in (my) perseverance.” I have been damaged… emotionally and spiritually. That’s what addictions tend to do to spouses, sexual addiction especially because it acts specifically against marital fidelity.

Also, I have to disagree that my husband’s soul “needs” me. It needs God and, all that my peserverance has gotten my husband so far is more entrenched in his addictive behavior and, therefore, possibly further from God.

I agree with everything that you’ve stated here, but only in reference to the typical individual. My husband is addicted to the chemical changes that happen in his brain as the result of lusting. My years of pleading, crying, trying anything that I could… didn’t help. Even ten years of abstinence on my part, didn’t drive him to get help so that he could return to my waiting arms. His issue is far more than merely engaging in a selfish act.

Maybe my husband’s actions were as simple as selfisness for some period in his life, some time between the ages of 8 and 20. However, somewhere in that period, his brain crossed the line into addiction. He has told me that if I hadn’t threatened to end his way of life, hadn’t told him that I was truly ready to leave the relationship and possibly to seek an anulment, he would not have changed. It would have been the same as all his other promises to stop. After all, he had spent all our married life hating what he couldn’t stop. No amounf of my pleading or crying or trying to help him, no amount of guilt or fear of hell after a heart incident could keep him chaste for more than 6 weeks, that was until I gave my ultimatum. This is classic behavior for the addict.

I appreciate that you are trying to help, Edward, and (as I said) for the normal person, your ideas may help. I’m replying at length here because I don’t want another wife of a sex addict to read your post and think that there’s something that she hasn’t yet done to save her husband from this horrible addiction. I’ve lived that lie. It is a most painful way to live.
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Almost everything that can be said on this topic and your situation, has already been said.

I pray that your husband gets in the “new habit” and understands the pain he has caused you, and that it can change over time. It won’t bring back all the painful years, but it could rekindle your spiritual and physical love in a new Spring for your relationship.

With divorces abounding among our non-Catholic friends, the pain from the separation and new lives devoid of their partners is shocking to experience. Unfortunately, many of my non-Catholic friends don’t have anyone to lean on, and a relationship with the Lord.

Miracles do happen, and I pray that you both will see one.

Your husband might also want to try www.settingcaptivesfree.com which may provide support to “stay clean” and bring him closer to the Lord as the same time.

Praying for your both. …
 
Cristin,

If I used words to lead you to conclude that I was suggesting you hadn’t done your part, I apologize. I can’t really see the words that led you there, but no matter. Assume they’re not intended.

God gives us spouses to help us and many others to reach Him. That’s all God cares about is unity with us.

What I found present in many of the responses above was a lot of creeping psychobabble, however well intended/offered.

The field of psychology has consistently ignored the whole human person (and I when I use the term whole, I am referring mainly to the person’s soul, their relations with others, and with their Father God); In doing so the field has done immeasurable harm to the human race. Read between the lines (or the lines themselves) and you can see how such babble has infiltrated and distorted our ability to think (there’s nonsense in this morning’s paper about Obama and his portray of empathy and anger).

Our ‘esteem’ comes from our sure knowledge that we are children of a loving God. It doesn’t come from some wacky, every changing and fluctuating, aspect of the person. Notice how many failed attempts psychology has had in explaining behavior, not to mention in helping people to improve. Not for a lack of effort, good intention (mainly), but for a dis-integrated understanding of the human.

Do you think your husband is praying while he’s masturbating…of course not!. Yet we should be striving to pray all the time. He’s walled himself off from God and you.

Your husband doesn’t need more psychobabble (which ignores the real disrupted relationship in his life…which is his distance from God); he needs to come face to face with heroic Love (through you) and realize that despite his failings he is still loved. He needs to learn what real Love is (not what psychologists, the media, and the selfish enlightened government-gods have subtly inculcated us about what love is).

My wife and I went to Mass this morning specifically for you and for your husband.
 
The OP already has attempted marriage counseling, which turned into separate counseling sessions, during which the OP’s husband was told (by a Catholic religious brother) that Masturbating is normal, which led to the end of needing counseling. Of course, I told my husband what the Church teaches and even showed him what the catechism has to say about it. My last-ditch attempt at counseling was with a legitimately laicized priest. We went to two sessions. In the second session, he told us that not every conjugal act need be “sacred.” Sometimes two people “just gotta screw.” He also told us that he celebrated home Masses with his family. Trust me when I say that there is a grave need for GOOD sex/marriage therapists!

As far as a man having a “need” to “relieve” himself – BS, even if his wife IS at “fault” or is physically incapable of sexual activity.

Believe me, I did not get married to live “sex-free” for a decade. I prayed and in the beginning, I had to pray OFTEN to remain chaste. But, I couldn’t stand feeling like a prostitute, which is exactly how many spouses of sex addicts feel. Even though my husband did not intend for me to feel like that, I did. Sex became dirty and cheap. That’s because for the sex addict, sexuality is so warped that women (even their wives) become OBJECTS. Trust me… the wife can sense it. In fact, I developed a coughing/difficulty breathing response to my husband’s touch. I didn’t want to reject him the way that he had been rejecting me for ten years, so I would pull my hair in order to hurt myself enough that it distracted my brain. I wouldn’t cough and could breathe until my husband was “done” with me. Admittedly, that made me a less than responsive partner. But, it didn’t seem to matter all that much to my husband (even when I told him that I was hurting myself). I didn’t understand why he didn’t care. Now, I understand that it didn’t matter all that much to him because I was more of an object for him to use than a partner.

During our first ten years of our marriage, there were several times when, after having intercourse, my husband would comment that “making love” to me was “so good” that he couldn’t figure out why he didn’t choose to be with me over his fantasizing and acting out. Why did he keep doing what he hated to do, knowing that it was making me feel unwanted and unloved and making him feel less fulfilled and guilty?? He did it because that’s what addiction is.

He is seeking help now. I know that recovery is a process and that addiction never goes away. It just sort of goes into remission. I’m certain that the prayers of the people on this forum were instrumental in him finally seeking help.
 
You’re a stand out wife. A great model for us all. Many prayers and all our well wishes.
 
jacksonj said:
When someone gets married, things which were previously really strongly condemned, and for very good reason, suddenly become permitted, and indeed expected and encouraged. This can be an enormously difficult, near impossible mental leap. The sex gift which God gives to married couples is a great blessing. It is meant to be something holy, yes, but also something happy and joyful. It has an important playful, flirtatious, teasing element. Desire often builds over hours, for both men and women, and becomes something almost irresistible. It is about understanding how the other person’s desire works, and building it. Sometimes by holding out for an hour or two. This should be thoroughly enjoyable. It should be fun. I get the feeling that you are taking such a serious view of it (in a Moral Theology forum) that the fun element isn’t present as much as it should be. Perhaps you could go out as a couple. You could take time over getting ready. Perhaps wear some makeup, and some pretty, close-fitting clothes. Maybe be very happy and smile a lot, make pleasant conversation, and try to kindle the romance. All of this not as some sort of obligation or punishment or duty, but just to be happy with your husband and to enjoy pleasing him in a special way. When you get home, do lots of kissing and cuddling. Hopefully eventually nature will take its course, in some special, better way. Things can be spoilt by trying too much in a direct way. Being very available but very passive and seemingly not emotionally involved can seem rather unattractive. Courtship is needed in marriage. If you are from a very strict family, which you probably are, you were probably really discouraged from being like this when you were a single girl. It is realising that now it is different, and this way is needed. When you are much closer emotionally to your husband than you are now, simply tell him that you know about the M and it really upsets you, and that might be enough to stop him doing it. I will pray that this heavy burden will soon be lifted from you, and that a new, happy phase to your marriage will begin, with greater mutual understanding and appreciation, and a lighter feeling all round. Amen.
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:eek:This post is a joke, right? Please tell me that it’s a foolish attempt at making light of this situation. And also tell me where you come off implying that I do not know how to be provocative or flirtatious with my husband.

The fact that this subject is in a “moral theology” forum is twofold: subject matter and because my question was one regarding the MORALITY of masturbation NOT a question as to how I can better seduce my husband.

Obviously, you just don’t get it!
 
christin said:
:eek:This post is a joke, right? Please tell me that it’s a foolish attempt at making light of this situation. And also tell me where you come off implying that I do not know how to be provocative or flirtatious with my husband.

The fact that this subject is in a “moral theology” forum is twofold: subject matter and because my question was one regarding the MORALITY of masturbation NOT a question as to how I can better seduce my husband.

Obviously, you just don’t get it!
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In fact it sounds like it’s the other way around, he needs to learn how to seduce you. And to do so, he needs to remove that which is preventing him from focusing all of his love towards you and Christ, that is he has to ditch the pornography habit.

He in fact needs to learn to love and appreciate you for what and who you are body and soul, not in comparison to some tarted-up porn model. It won’t be easy when just walking down the street in summer borders on pornography.

I feel for you, I really do, as I too feel rejection from my wife. You will be in my prayer intentions at Vespers in a few minutes.
 
OraLabora said:
not in comparison to some tarted-up porn model. It won’t be easy when just walking down the street in summer borders on pornography.
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Sadly, this is very true. My husband lamented the coming of summer, a season that he, otherwise, enjoys.

Yet, no season is safe. Even the check out isles of a supermarket are filled with porn fodder disguised as news and magazines in wire displays. Every time that I see them, my heart aches, not only with the pain that sex addiction has caused me but in compassion for those sex-addicted men striving for purity even as they are assaulted on a regular basis, while doing everyday, innocent activities such as shopping.

Although porn is an extremely lucrative business, no one need frequent adult book stores. With the popularity of push up bras and other revealing fashions, there’s plenty of tempation walking down Main Street.
 
christin said:
However, my sponsor assures me that ALL men masturbate fairly regularly and, as long as it doesn’t interfere with marital relations, a wife is merely acting jealously if she doesn’t accept it.
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Your sponsor is a liar and a fool.
 
Zatzat said:
It is very normal and there are many reasons to believe it is good for men to partake.

Yes, I’m pretty sure that just about all men masturbate.

Sue Johanson, sex educator and counselor, 2000: “99 percent of men of all ages masturbate regularly and the other one percent are liars.”

marriage.about.com/cs/masturbation/f/masturbatfaq3.htm
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It is neither normal nor desirable, and ‘sex educators’ are pretty much channeling Satan when they try to get normal people to believe that deviancy is good.

This is really all you need to know: do you believe Holy Mother Church, or someone whose living depends on normalizing deviancy?

Still praying for the OP.
 
Cristin,

I was glad you updated the thread. A 60 day chip isn’t too shabby. I’m glad for you. If he makes it to 6 months or a year, let us know on the thread. It would give me a sense of hope.

Take care of yourself. Praying for you. :gopray:

Pug
 
Pug said:
If he makes it to 6 months or a year, let us know on the thread. It would give me a sense of hope.
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Thanks for the prayes, Pug. I will try to remember to do that. I updated the thread because someone had posted to it recently. But, now that I know someone would find encouragement, I’ll try to make a point of updating it.
 
Masturbation per say may not be a sin, but if it is frequent, then yes, it is. Unfortunately we live in a world where person have too many distractions and too many expectations to live up to. It is no fault of yours or his. I am glad that your three sons have been taught well! As for his ED condition is concerned. As you sure it is impotence that he is facing? For an impotent person cannot have erection with or without women or masturbation. Either he is not impotent or he is on Viagra pills whose generic forms are easily available online, these days.
I pray to Almighty that he gets his sense back and lead his life peacefully and lovingly.
 
christin said:
I apologize if this is a subject that has been addressed a zillion times. I see that there are two related threads, but mine is very specific and I’m desperate for some answers.

My question:
DO ALL MEN MASTURBATE REGULARLY?

I know that there are men who are addicted to porn and/or masturbation (my husband being one of them). I’ve been married for twenty years to a man who has preferred masturbation to me, two or three times a week, which meant that I was “allowed” sex once every other week. As a young bride, I thought that there was something abnormal about me because I wanted sex more often. When I realized what was going on after I had been made to go to bed alone, I was devastated. I spent the first ten years of my marriage begging my husband to want me. After a decade of feeling like the “other” woman (second to his fantasy partners), the pain was too great and for the next ten years, I lived in celibacy (he of course was not missing much because he had himself).

When I became intimate with him again a little over a year ago, the feelings of rejection resurfaced. Why wouldn’t they? Nothing had changed. In fact, within a couple of months, he started having ED, but only with me, not when alone. I think that was the straw that broke the camels back and I found solace in the numbness of opiates. Now, I’m in recovery and I’m once again struggling with the masturbation issue.

I know that masturbation is a sin (and I know that addiction diminishes culpability). What I don’t know is whether it’s a sin that for most men is as common as growing angry or impatient with someone. I have always had a sex drive that would rival any man’s drive. Yet, God has given me great graces over the years. Have those graces been extreme in their abundance and impossibly extreme for a man to receive? Because of the damage that masturbation has done to my heart, it’s been my thought that the majority of loving husbands fell into this sin a time or two a year. However, my sponsor assures me that ALL men masturbate fairly regularly and, as long as it doesn’t interfere with marital relations, a wife is merely acting jealously if she doesn’t accept it.

Are my expectations unreasonable? I have three sons (17, 19, 21). Have I misinformed them?

I appreciate your honesty in answering this question for me. I am greatly burdened by this.
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Honestly…truly honestly, the answer is yes. I would say 50% or more do so on a daily basis.
 
Lutheranteach said:
Honestly…truly honestly, the answer is yes. I would say 50% or more do so on a daily basis.
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I am glad (especially for my husband’s sake) that for the past 90+ days, he has been one of the “50% or less” who DOESN’T… not every day, not once a week, not once a month. He’s been attending a 12-step recovery group and is starting to look at his life and the way that he has been living it.

Let me again thank everyone who is or who has prayed for me and my husband.
 
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