Masturbation a Sin ? :confused:

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Vera_Ljuba said:
Hmm, I was under the impression that Christians are supposed to spread the good news, to evangelize everyone else. And you can only do that if you are able to argue rationally.
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A minor quibble, reason is not the only way to evangelize, or even the best. Leading by example seems more powerful.
Well, then I am an insane person, because I dispute the existence of any “design”. As I said before, if you can prove the existence of God, and can prove that God agrees with you, you will be in good shape. Why don’t you try it?
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And now, a major quibble. Can you prove that human reason is qualified to deliver meaningful credible statements about the most fundamental nature of all reality, the scope of the God proposal?
Lust - which is strong sexual desire - is perfectly normal, the result of our hormones. “You don’t have to like it, but that’s the way it is.” 🙂
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But if you should experience this desire which is utterly normal, straight in to the slammer you go! 🙂 Hell is going to be VERY crowded, I should make my reservations now.
 
Vera_Ljuba said:
Lust - which is strong sexual desire - is perfectly normal, the result of our hormones. “You don’t have to like it, but that’s the way it is.” 🙂
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And to act upon lust is always perfectly normal too? If not, when is it not?
 
Ormond said:
Explain in detail please. Not that interested in the vague theory. Thanks.
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Throughout His teaching Christ commands us to be selfless. It may be an impossible goal, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try, and try, and try again. “Do as though wilt” is someone else’s teaching, not Christ’s. What did He say in Gethsemane? " Thy will, not mine, be done."🙂
We are all sinners. Christ is our only hope.
 
Faithdancer said:
Throughout His teaching Christ commands us to be selfless. It may be an impossible goal, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try, and try, and try again. “Do as though wilt” is someone else’s teaching, not Christ’s. What did He say in Gethsemane? " Thy will, not mine, be done."🙂
We are all sinners. Christ is our only hope.
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Sorry, no offense, but you are still dodging the question and retreating in to vagueness. No crime there, but not convincing either.
 
Ormond said:
But if you should experience this desire which is utterly normal, straight in to the slammer you go! 🙂 Hell is going to be VERY crowded, I should make my reservations now.
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It only becomes sinful lust when we dwell on it, nurture it, allow it to inflame us. This is why prayer is so effective. It is impossible to pray, sincerely and with all our mind and heart, and simultaneously indulge lustful ideation.
Chastity of the gaze is a big part of avoiding lust.

Speaking of which …Daily Office time, yay!🙂
 
Vera_Ljuba said:
Hmm, I was under the impression that Christians are supposed to spread the good news, to evangelize everyone else. And you can only do that if you are able to argue rationally.
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Rational discussion assumes that you understand a position and can restate it accurately. You have not demonstrated that ability to this point.
Instead you construct straw men, which are easy to attack. It’s a self enclosed argument (the irony in light of the topic is striking…)

Do you know what evangelization is?
 
Vera_Ljuba said:
But why should any non-Catholic accept it?
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I’m not seeking to persuade anyone at all, but rather to correct your knowledge of Catholic doctrine so that you can reject the actual position rather than a misunderstanding. 😉
 
Rau said:
I’m not seeking to persuade anyone at all, but rather to correct your knowledge of Catholic doctrine so that you can reject the actual position rather than a misunderstanding. 😉
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👍
But straw men are easy, rational thought is hard. :rolleyes:
 
Vera_Ljuba said:
Irrelevant. Can you present strictly rational arguments against it? Besides how can one live life to “its fullest” if one does not practice one of the most pleasurable aspects of it?
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If you consider masturbation to be “one of the most pleasurable aspects of life” you should perhaps try switching the computer off, the lights on and start going outside a little more…
 
Rau said:
I’m not seeking to persuade anyone at all, but rather to correct your knowledge of Catholic doctrine so that you can reject the actual position rather than a misunderstanding. 😉
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Why do you think that anyone could possibly misunderstand it? The doctrine is very simple: “a sexual act is only permitted in a heterosexual marriage, between a husband and the wife, if and only if it is open to procreation”. The question is: “why should anyone non-Catholic accept it as valid?”. If you don’t want others to accept it, there was no reason to state it in the first place.
 
goout said:
Rational discussion assumes that you understand a position and can restate it accurately. You have not demonstrated that ability to this point.
Instead you construct straw men, which are easy to attack. It’s a self enclosed argument (the irony in light of the topic is striking…)

Do you know what evangelization is?
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Why do you waste your time on talking to an “insane” person? After all you said that only and insane person would deny that our sexual organs are designed for procreation? And since I disagree, I must be “insane”.
 
Vera_Ljuba said:
…And since I disagree, I must be “insane”.
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Personally, I think “blind” is the better metaphor for what is so common in modern social discourse. Eg. Persons denying that man and woman are made for each other (sexually), and declaring man + man is just a normal variant. Persons denying that there is anything particularly appropriate in a child having mother and father to parent them. I suppose the question is whether the blindness is willful? If it’s not, perhaps there is a kind of insanity at play…
 
Rau said:
Personally, I think “blind” is the better metaphor for what is so common in modern social discourse. Eg. Persons denying that man and woman are made for each other (sexually), and declaring man + man is just a normal variant. Persons denying that there is anything particularly appropriate in a child having mother and father to parent them. I suppose the question is whether the blindness is willful? If it’s not, perhaps there is a kind of insanity at play…
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You misunderstand. I took exception to the expression of “design”. And I take exception to “man and woman were made for each other”. Any sex between consenting adults is fine. It is very good to have a loving mother and father for a child. But the emphasis is on loving, not the gender of the people involved. In the past there was a social stigma on “bastards”, there was a huge uproar against same-sex relationships.

But this is getting outdated. Every time I see a commercial with same-sex couples, I must grin ear-to-ear. The fact that businesses dare to use same sex couples in commercials aimed at the general public is wonderful. It shows that the prejudice is disappearing. In a few decades the concept of same sex couples will not even be “ho-hum”. No one will even see it… with a miniscule exception of some ultra-orthodox people.
 
Rau said:
Personally, I think “blind” is the better metaphor for what is so common in modern social discourse. Eg. Persons denying that man and woman are made for each other (sexually), and declaring man + man is just a normal variant. Persons denying that there is anything particularly appropriate in a child having mother and father to parent them. I suppose the question is whether the blindness is willful? If it’s not, perhaps there is a kind of insanity at play…
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“And the light shineth in darkness: and the darkness did not comprehend it.”
 
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