Masturbation and homosexuality

[seaching20]

Hello everyone,

A small bit of background on me- I am a twenty year old college student who found the Episcopal Church during my sophomore year and became very faithful. I began with the flimsy “everybody and every religion is ok” mentality and after a great deal of prayer and study began to realize that this idea has nothing to do with the Bible, Jesus, or Christianity. I found myself drawn to the Catholic church and have spoken to a priest regarding my situation. One main obstacle to conversion is that I consider myself a homosexual (or to use more catholic terms I have same-sex attractions). I never had any sort of relationship with another man nor does anyone know that I am gay. I wanted very much to find some way to justify homosexuality in Scripture but the arguments I read were extremely lacking in any sort of biblical grounding (they were certainly not grounded in tradition!). After much prayer, I submitted myself to His Will. I finally decided to commit my life to chastity and celibacy about three months ago. Celibacy was easier than chastity.

My question is this: I guess I have always instinctively known that masturbation is objectively disordered even though I habitually masturbated throughout my teenage years. I justified it because I remained celibate. Reading some arguments my understanding is that masturbation is ALWAYS objectively disordered but culpability can be diminished in certain circumstances. This seems confusing because from my perspective it seems those who diminish culpability of masturbation by saying “it’s a product of our times” open the way for many other sinful acts to be committed. If one agreed with that, couldn’t the same be said of homosexual relationships in this day an age? The acts could be objectively disordered but the sinners not held as culpable. Catholics still receive communion even if they masturbate. Priests even turn a blind eye to masturbation. If our “times” change more could this happen with homosexuality? The only difference seems to be Catholics seem to more universally agree that homosexuality is sinful now but who knows 100 years from now. My instinctive answer is no, that there is some difference between masturbation and homosexuality. What is it?

I was just wondering what people thought about this. Don’t worry, I won’t be changing my mind about the path I have chosen and this post is not the result of “second thoughts.” Even if the Church were to change her opinion, I am pretty sure it won’t happen in my lifetime. Who am I to challenge 2000 years of wisdom?

In Christ,

sarching20

 

[Rawb]

Reading some arguments my understanding is that masturbation is ALWAYS objectively disordered but culpability can be diminished in certain circumstances. This seems confusing because from my perspective it seems those who diminish culpability of masturbation by saying “it’s a product of our times”

The arguments I’ve seen for diminished culpability in regards to masturbation have been that if it’s been a habitual sin, you may not be as culpable as if someone who hasn’t masturbated before, but knows it’s wrong, were to masturbate. If John has been masturbating every week since he was fourteen, but only learned it was wrong when he turned sixteen, and then goes to confession, repents, and tries not to do it again but does, he’s not as culpable as, say, Tom, who has always known it is wrong but does it every now and then anyway. John is suffering from addiction and doesn’t have full control of his actions, so he isn’t fully culpable. It’s nothing to do with ‘a product of our times’.

Catholics still receive communion even if they masturbate. Priests even turn a blind eye to masturbation

If they do, they shouldn’t. If a Catholic is in a state of mortal sin (which masturbation usually is) and they recieve the Eucharist, they’ve magnified their sin to sacrelige. If a Priest is giving you a ‘nod and a wink’ in regards to masturbation he is leading his flock wrongly and contributing to the moral decay of America.

 

[TorontoCatholic]

Hello everyone,
My question is this: I guess I have always instinctively known that masturbation is objectively disordered even though I habitually masturbated throughout my teenage years. I justified it because I remained celibate. Reading some arguments my understanding is that masturbation is ALWAYS objectively disordered but culpability can be diminished in certain circumstances. This seems confusing because from my perspective it seems those who diminish culpability of masturbation by saying “it’s a product of our times” open the way for many other sinful acts to be committed. If one agreed with that, couldn’t the same be said of homosexual relationships in this day an age?

Maybe

If our society constantly tells us to ‘express’ our sexuality via masturbation, homosexual acts, etc… then we may be not be as culpable for committing such acts. Because of one’s ignorance, they may have committed a venial sin as opposed to a mortal sin, however it is still of grave matter. Once one discovers that it is of grave matter, they must start working to reverse their habits immediately. If they know that masturbation is a serious sin, and do not attempt to stop doing it, then they will be mortally sinning.

The acts could be objectively disordered but the sinners not held as culpable. Catholics still receive communion even if they masturbate.

They shouldn’t. Not in a state of mortal sin.

Priests even turn a blind eye to masturbation.

They shouldn’t. They are failing their duties as doctors of souls.

If our “times” change more could this happen with homosexuality?

It is already happening in some circumstances, but it shouldn’t be. There are plenty of heretic ‘Catholic’ organizations and priests who are saying that both masturbation and homosexual acts are permissible.

The only difference seems to be Catholics seem to more universally agree that homosexuality is sinful now but who knows 100 years from now.

The moral truth defined by the Catholic Church are eternal and infallible. This cannot change. Whether individuals within the Church agree to it is a different story.

My instinctive answer is no, that there is some difference between masturbation and homosexuality. What is it?

The main difference is that one is done with yourself, and one is done with another person. They are both intrinsically disordered in that they are sexual acts that are not open to the gift of life. Neither of them under any circumstance can be approved.

I was just wondering what people thought about this. Don’t worry, I won’t be changing my mind about the path I have chosen and this post is not the result of “second thoughts.” Even if the Church were to change her opinion, I am pretty sure it won’t happen in my lifetime. Who am I to challenge 2000 years of wisdom?

Excellent. And don’t worry, the Church will never change her opinion.

 

[Riley259]

Hello everyone,

A small bit of background on me- I am a twenty year old college student who found the Episcopal Church during my sophomore year and became very faithful. I began with the flimsy “everybody and every religion is ok” mentality and after a great deal of prayer and study began to realize that this idea has nothing to do with the Bible, Jesus, or Christianity. I found myself drawn to the Catholic church and have spoken to a priest regarding my situation. One main obstacle to conversion is that I consider myself a homosexual (or to use more catholic terms I have same-sex attractions). I never had any sort of relationship with another man nor does anyone know that I am gay. I wanted very much to find some way to justify homosexuality in Scripture but the arguments I read were extremely lacking in any sort of biblical grounding (they were certainly not grounded in tradition!). After much prayer, I submitted myself to His Will. I finally decided to commit my life to chastity and celibacy about three months ago. Celibacy was easier than chastity.

My question is this: I guess I have always instinctively known that masturbation is objectively disordered even though I habitually masturbated throughout my teenage years. I justified it because I remained celibate. Reading some arguments my understanding is that masturbation is ALWAYS objectively disordered but culpability can be diminished in certain circumstances. This seems confusing because from my perspective it seems those who diminish culpability of masturbation by saying “it’s a product of our times” open the way for many other sinful acts to be committed. If one agreed with that, couldn’t the same be said of homosexual relationships in this day an age? The acts could be objectively disordered but the sinners not held as culpable. Catholics still receive communion even if they masturbate. Priests even turn a blind eye to masturbation. If our “times” change more could this happen with homosexuality? The only difference seems to be Catholics seem to more universally agree that homosexuality is sinful now but who knows 100 years from now. My instinctive answer is no, that there is some difference between masturbation and homosexuality. What is it?

I was just wondering what people thought about this. Don’t worry, I won’t be changing my mind about the path I have chosen and this post is not the result of “second thoughts.” Even if the Church were to change her opinion, I am pretty sure it won’t happen in my lifetime. Who am I to challenge 2000 years of wisdom?

In Christ,

sarching20

Homosexuality is not sinful in and of itself but engaging in homosexuals relations is gravely sinful. An addictive habit of masturbation (in which perhaps culpability is lessened) is definitely not the same as engaging in homosexual relations. The fact that it’s done with another person requires more forethought and planning and frankly does not mitigate it at all as it might under some circumstances with masturbation. Regardless, masturbation under all circumstances is objectively sinful if not always subjectively. I think the same cannot necessarily be said for homosexual relations. I applaud your courage in committing yourself to Christ by being chaste and celibate - I will pray for you!