Committing a sin which is of grave matter does not mean you have commiitted a mortal sin. The sin of grave matter is not a mortal sin without the three conditions being met. Therefore a sin of grave matter (i.e. a grave sin) is not necessarily a mortal sin.
No, because you left out the third part, full consent of the will. Whats done in one sleep is not sinful because you do not meet that third condition.
Doing something that is grave matter can also be not a sin at all, due to the circumstances. That’s why I was trying to get the point across that MB is grave matter, not grave sin. Some very basic conditions have to be present for it to be at least venial, and some very complex things for mortal. But it is not always a sin, even though it is grave matter.
Thats, I think, where all the subjectiveness goes wrong and people start rationalizing why they didn’t comment a sin.
Yes and no
Priests are fallible, I’ve been told its not even sinful. (I’ve also been told by many priests its mortal many many times.) There is a thread on bad experiences in confession, in which someone said that not only did the priest say some blatant sins were not sinful, he encouraged the person to engage in immoral behavior
That is simply not the teaching of the Church on the mater.
Okay, but when two priests give you two different sets of advice (one says it’s a mortal sin, one says it isn’t a sin), then where does your trust lie? Mine lies with the consistent teaching of the Church. There are sadly some priests who have strayed from Church teaching.
I’ve had priests tell me everything from its good and healthy, to near instant damnation.
Again, you need to realize that MB in itself is gravely disordered. I think we can agree on that. The culpability doesn’t downgrade the grave matter part, I agree. BUT…grave matter becomes sin when it is acted on. It becomes a mortal sin if the three conditions are met; if any are not, it is venial. The sin is imparted once the matter is acted on. So you can say all day that MB is grave matter, and that is true. But you can’t say that someone has commited mortal sin but is not culpable for it. You can say someone has commited an act of grave matter, but the act is venial or mortal based on the conditions. To say someone has committed mortal sin and is not culpable for it is not how the ‘system’ works. Mortal sin by definition results in a complete turning away from God and a loss of sanctifying grace. So you can commit a mortal sin and have it be venial…but you can commit a gravely disordered action and have it be venial or mortal based on the conditions.
The problem is that these priests who teach and/or counsel heresy are really harming the Church. Some penitents (many? most?) who are told, “oh, that isn’t a sin,” will never confess it again and continue to separate themselves from God’s love. I have a close friend who is divorced and remarried, but receives communion because a priest told her it was okay and there is no need for an annulment. That one priest’s false statement is all she needed. When told that she needs to get an annulment, she says “nope…he said I don’t.”
All we can do is pray that they come to the truth on their own through study of the Catechism and the hearing of a homily from a holy priest that gives proper instruction regarding those sins.Be careful with such advice. Every case is different, and you really shouldn’t be giving people a pass on their sins. Someone reading your words may say, “oh, I’m a good Catholic, so I’m okay” to a host of sins.
I agree, its very troubling and sad to see the state the Church is in today. I knew a couple that used ABC because one priest told them it wasn’t a sin and the Church was simply wrong.The problem is that these priests who teach and/or counsel heresy are really harming the Church. Some penitents (many? most?) who are told, “oh, that isn’t a sin,” will never confess it again and continue to separate themselves from God’s love. I have a close friend who is divorced and remarried, but receives communion because a priest told her it was okay and there is no need for an annulment. That one priest’s false statement is all she needed. When told that she needs to get an annulment, she says “nope…he said I don’t.”
How many people have found a priest (in only takes one) who told them that they don’t need to confess/repent masturbation, birth control, etc.?
Good point! In no way should anyone ever embrace this or any other sins because you feel that you are a ‘good person.’ You always have to struggle to overcome, but I have fallen into some pretty bad depression due to viewpoints expressed here that anytime you perform this act, you are instantly cut off from Gods love and grace…that you must run to confession or you are destined to Hell. That is not the case, esp if you are slipping up after a serious struggle.
I’m sorry but, I’m not understanding why thats a bad thing. Whats worse, depression caused by habitual mortal sin that actually gets you inside the confessional, or a lackadaisical attitude toward sin that allows someone to live in the state of it for weeks.
This is something I struggled with for many, many years, and the right course is not always clear. I had priests who told me it isn’t a sin, as I mentioned. Because I knew it was a serious sin, I would not receive communion unless I confessed. The best confessors I had, the ones who really, really helped, counselled me to confess often but *still *receive communion. Why? Because the nature of the sin, in my case, was so habitual/compulsive that the priest determined that it was not mortal.
You are correct, but it is just as easy for sin to keep you away from the confessional due to embarrassment and self-hatred. Neither extreme - self-hatred nor a lackadaisical attitude - are healthy in your relationship with God.
Well yes, but I think that depends why they hate themselves. Clinical depression needs to be treated by a medical professional or through counseling. Someone depressed to the point of despair probably has other much deeper problems then one habitual sin.
It doesn’t have to be clinical depression. In my experience, self-hatred can come from the constant stumbling in habitual sin and a scrupulosity that then manifests itself to the point that you avoid confession and Mass.Well yes, but I think that depends why they hate themselves. Clinical depression needs to be treated by a medical professional or through counseling. Someone depressed to the point of despair probably has other much deeper problems then one habitual sin.
I think its pretty safe to say everyone has issues from time to time of embarrassment with confession.