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YosefYosep
Guest
When the going gets tough, the tough get going.
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ccmnxc
Guest
This might just be a guess, but I’d say that while masturbation has always been a grave sin, the Church has recently had to be a lot more clear and up front since pornography has become so much more of a wide-spread problem in developed countries. We carry the internet around in our pockets. I don’t know how old you are and when you grew up, but that is a possible idea I’ve had. Still, I’m not sure the Church has ever said it is NOT a mortal sin, but I haven’t actually looked into that.
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sirach2v4
Guest
Please read paragraph 1735 of the Catechism of the Catholic Church:
1735 Imputability and responsibility for an action can be diminished or even nullified by ignorance, inadvertence, duress, fear, habit, inordinate attachments, and other psychological or social factors
Immaturity may be a psychological factor that reduces the severity of masterbation, as well as the existence of a habit.
One should be oriented to becoming sin-free in every sphere of our life, under the idea of the universal call to holiness (God says “Be holy as I am holy.”)
But, under 1735, one does not need to go to confession before receiving Communion. 1735 doesn’t say as much, but there would be no reason to publish it, if that wasn’t what it meant.
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underacloud
Guest
This is true, but some clarification is needed I think. The catechism specifically addresses this with regard to masturbation:
Here we see (my bolding) that this advice is really directed at pastors/confessors. They are the ones who can determine culpability and thus whether masturbation is considered mortal sin or venial sin for any given person under their guidance. This is not really something for a person to decide for themselves, without appropriate spiritual guidance.
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Tinkerbell49
Guest
Well, I agree. This whole thing is hard for us mortals to figure out. So I discussed this with a near ancient Jesuit today, and he told me that the big M couldn’t possibly be a mortal sin. So cheer up my guilt-ridden friends. Jesus loves us and He won’t send us to Hel for Jacking off. My Jesuit friend said after Jesus found the lost sheep He didn’t beat it up. He loves us.
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Phil_Marinus
Guest
Surely were not STILL talking about this are we…GOLLY ME !
This is one of the better Comments !
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Jeanne1184
Guest
I suspect there is serious delusion involved in one who thinks that the Holy Spirit will come to dwell in one who regularly consorts with the enemy. Doesn’t mean someone cannot receive Insight/Grace from time to time. But that isn’t the same thing as being Indwelt.
I pondered a long time on the one line of the following:
Matt 10:26 - “So do not be afraid of them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. 27 What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs. 28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care.** 30 And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows."
That placement of that line is so odd, to me. What did it mean? While researching baldness for a very different reason, I came across the following link. Why wouldn’t women be affected likewise? According to the Bible, our hair is ‘the glory of men’ - to me, possibly meaning men loaned us hair cuz Eve got ‘snatched bald-headed’ when she sinned and ‘lost her glory’. (Maybe Adam wouldn’t have anything to do with her until God found a fix, ya think?) I see other possibilities, but it just gets stranger.
And this theory doesn’t mix with Paul’s comment about men keeping their hair short. Tis a work in progress, awaiting Insight.
It is men who carry the ‘living seeds’. (Maybe fingernails as well? Women have a great deal of pride about hair *and *nails, by and large.)
Anyway, there appears to be ‘scientific backup’ for the Church’s stance on masturbation, eh?
For the record: I think it would be quite harmful to judge every bald man as having had an exensive affair with his inner anti-self, but it is very interesting. A man 70 yrs old with a full head of white hair has always been a marvel to me. Perhaps there is more behind it than simply genetics. Spiritual genetics?
library.ayurvediccure.com/over-masturbation/masturbation-cause-hair-loss.htm
An excerpt:
"Among the many beliefs that have circulated around masturbation since time immemorial, one of the most common ones was that excessive indulgence in it caused baldness in men. How this belief got started in those ancient times is not known, but it is strongly suggested today – by medical investigation – that this can indeed be the case.
“DHT is not normally present in the male body. This is caused when a person masturbates too much. Due to excessive ejaculation, the testosterone in the body of the man gets converted into dihydrotestosterone. Such high levels of DHT can cause an overload in the body of the male, which can cause several repercussions. Some major repercussions could be like the enlargement of the prostate gland caused due to poor circulation of the blood. But one important side-effect of the high levels of DHT is the baldness, which can begin occurring even in young boys who masturbate too much.”**
I pondered a long time on the one line of the following:
Matt 10:26 - “So do not be afraid of them, for there is nothing concealed that will not be disclosed, or hidden that will not be made known. 27 What I tell you in the dark, speak in the daylight; what is whispered in your ear, proclaim from the roofs. 28 Do not be afraid of those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. Rather, be afraid of the One who can destroy both soul and body in hell. 29 Are not two sparrows sold for a penny? Yet not one of them will fall to the ground outside your Father’s care.** 30 And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered. 31 So don’t be afraid; you are worth more than many sparrows."
That placement of that line is so odd, to me. What did it mean? While researching baldness for a very different reason, I came across the following link. Why wouldn’t women be affected likewise? According to the Bible, our hair is ‘the glory of men’ - to me, possibly meaning men loaned us hair cuz Eve got ‘snatched bald-headed’ when she sinned and ‘lost her glory’. (Maybe Adam wouldn’t have anything to do with her until God found a fix, ya think?) I see other possibilities, but it just gets stranger.
And this theory doesn’t mix with Paul’s comment about men keeping their hair short. Tis a work in progress, awaiting Insight.It is men who carry the ‘living seeds’. (Maybe fingernails as well? Women have a great deal of pride about hair *and *nails, by and large.)
Anyway, there appears to be ‘scientific backup’ for the Church’s stance on masturbation, eh?
For the record: I think it would be quite harmful to judge every bald man as having had an exensive affair with his inner anti-self, but it is very interesting. A man 70 yrs old with a full head of white hair has always been a marvel to me. Perhaps there is more behind it than simply genetics. Spiritual genetics?
library.ayurvediccure.com/over-masturbation/masturbation-cause-hair-loss.htm
An excerpt:
"Among the many beliefs that have circulated around masturbation since time immemorial, one of the most common ones was that excessive indulgence in it caused baldness in men. How this belief got started in those ancient times is not known, but it is strongly suggested today – by medical investigation – that this can indeed be the case.
“DHT is not normally present in the male body. This is caused when a person masturbates too much. Due to excessive ejaculation, the testosterone in the body of the man gets converted into dihydrotestosterone. Such high levels of DHT can cause an overload in the body of the male, which can cause several repercussions. Some major repercussions could be like the enlargement of the prostate gland caused due to poor circulation of the blood. But one important side-effect of the high levels of DHT is the baldness, which can begin occurring even in young boys who masturbate too much.”**
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Jeanne1184
Guest
It has become my understanding that not doing something because of fear of a consequence is not the same as offering our attachment to a certain thing as a ‘living sacrifice’ to gain Spiritual Understanding.
When I didn’t kill those who harmed me greatly, it wasn’t because I was ‘Good’. It was fear of the consequences. It was not to my credit that a few dead bodies are not connected to my earthly name - there were plenty listed on my heavenly record because of the hate/unforgiveness in my heart. (Saying, “I wish he/she would get hit by a bus,” didn’t escape God, who read my real intent behind ‘harmless’ words.
So, I just want to share information I just located on the computer of a way to look at sexual continence that will be from a desire to grow spiritually - and not refrain from ‘indulging in self-pleasure’ because of a fear of a baldness (reputation, etc.) as a consequence. Only one way works toward Enlightenment.
I don’t recall where I found this info but a seach of key lines may pull up the website. Just know they aren’t my words. By the difference of type in my Word Doc., I suspect I culled things from different sources.
“In Christianity an understanding of the significance of morality is still implicit, but no longer consciously understood and fading fast. The celibacy of the Catholic priesthood long provided a clue to the significance of chastity, and the use of sex for procreation was understood as a secondary acceptable level of righteous living. The Catholic priesthood basically institutionalized the requirement for yogis called brahmacharya in India. Then with the breakup of the Catholic Church, the Protestant branches continued to have an implicit understanding firmed up by centuries of morality under the Catholic Church. But these churches became gradually less morally clear. It is largely the still-extant implicit moral understanding of Christianity that keeps Christianity in the sights of Zionist/N.W.O. interests for continual attack. That moral understanding, even implicit, is the last hope of any social or cultural order in the people.”
Or the moral rule is like this:
A man wanted to know the mysteries of religion and the secrets of the universe. He read scriptures and texts. He read book after book. But it disturbed him. His confusion and perplexity grew, and his life received little benefit from his study. Then along came a yogi from our Brotherhood and said:
“Look, son you are reading those books with no mind. Thus you cannot comprehend much of this. Become continent, then you’ll have a mind. Cease from hemorrhaging your life force (and stop offending and alienating the Deity also) and you’ll get a real mind. Then having a mind, you will easily penetrate all these texts.”
“The moral chastity of the male (and the female, too, in her own special female way) is exactly this significant in the development of spiritual knowledge (the development of religion and spiritual knowledge go together.) Nothing has been exaggerated. In fact, these similes and allegories understate the case.”
“A wise man should avoid unchastity as if it were a burning pit of live coals. From the contact comes sensation, from sensation thirst, from thirst clinging; by ceasing from that, the soul is delivered from all sinful existence.”
“63. But the painful excitement, the distressing opposition which man’s carnal nature feels against such a cross, is a most powerful evidence of its necessity. And were there no other argument in favor of it, this alone is sufficient to convince us that it is the very cross to which Christ had a particular reference: for that nature must be destroyed out of the soul of man before he can find his redemption; and this cross of Christ is purposely designed to effect its destruction, without which it never will be destroyed.”
When I didn’t kill those who harmed me greatly, it wasn’t because I was ‘Good’. It was fear of the consequences. It was not to my credit that a few dead bodies are not connected to my earthly name - there were plenty listed on my heavenly record because of the hate/unforgiveness in my heart. (Saying, “I wish he/she would get hit by a bus,” didn’t escape God, who read my real intent behind ‘harmless’ words.
So, I just want to share information I just located on the computer of a way to look at sexual continence that will be from a desire to grow spiritually - and not refrain from ‘indulging in self-pleasure’ because of a fear of a baldness (reputation, etc.) as a consequence. Only one way works toward Enlightenment.
I don’t recall where I found this info but a seach of key lines may pull up the website. Just know they aren’t my words. By the difference of type in my Word Doc., I suspect I culled things from different sources.
“In Christianity an understanding of the significance of morality is still implicit, but no longer consciously understood and fading fast. The celibacy of the Catholic priesthood long provided a clue to the significance of chastity, and the use of sex for procreation was understood as a secondary acceptable level of righteous living. The Catholic priesthood basically institutionalized the requirement for yogis called brahmacharya in India. Then with the breakup of the Catholic Church, the Protestant branches continued to have an implicit understanding firmed up by centuries of morality under the Catholic Church. But these churches became gradually less morally clear. It is largely the still-extant implicit moral understanding of Christianity that keeps Christianity in the sights of Zionist/N.W.O. interests for continual attack. That moral understanding, even implicit, is the last hope of any social or cultural order in the people.”
Or the moral rule is like this:
A man wanted to know the mysteries of religion and the secrets of the universe. He read scriptures and texts. He read book after book. But it disturbed him. His confusion and perplexity grew, and his life received little benefit from his study. Then along came a yogi from our Brotherhood and said:
“Look, son you are reading those books with no mind. Thus you cannot comprehend much of this. Become continent, then you’ll have a mind. Cease from hemorrhaging your life force (and stop offending and alienating the Deity also) and you’ll get a real mind. Then having a mind, you will easily penetrate all these texts.”
“The moral chastity of the male (and the female, too, in her own special female way) is exactly this significant in the development of spiritual knowledge (the development of religion and spiritual knowledge go together.) Nothing has been exaggerated. In fact, these similes and allegories understate the case.”
“A wise man should avoid unchastity as if it were a burning pit of live coals. From the contact comes sensation, from sensation thirst, from thirst clinging; by ceasing from that, the soul is delivered from all sinful existence.”
“63. But the painful excitement, the distressing opposition which man’s carnal nature feels against such a cross, is a most powerful evidence of its necessity. And were there no other argument in favor of it, this alone is sufficient to convince us that it is the very cross to which Christ had a particular reference: for that nature must be destroyed out of the soul of man before he can find his redemption; and this cross of Christ is purposely designed to effect its destruction, without which it never will be destroyed.”
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Phil_Marinus
Guest
Masturbation… interesting subject… a lot has been said here concerning the intentions
Of Mrs Palmer… there has been a Proliferation of Jittery hand Syndrome ,to which Mrs Palmer is the main Culprit … Her argument is based not on moral or religious grounds, but rather on the Integrity of the male or female Respondent of there own mindful intellect.
In simple terms, leave it alone the swelling will go down by itself !
Of Mrs Palmer… there has been a Proliferation of Jittery hand Syndrome ,to which Mrs Palmer is the main Culprit … Her argument is based not on moral or religious grounds, but rather on the Integrity of the male or female Respondent of there own mindful intellect.
In simple terms, leave it alone the swelling will go down by itself !
M
Marisun39
Guest
Just wanted to share an experience with you. One time during confession I told the priest that I was having problems with sexual needs. He told me to pray for God to help me. I have to admit that on one occasion I was going to do the big M as some people call it and the next thing I know I heard a voice on my left ear tell me “No, Marie, No Marie” I turned around because I thought someone was actually there with me but no one was there. After carefully thinking about what I heard when that happened, I felt someone who cares about me stopped me from committing this sin. This voice was so close to my ear that it couldn’t have been no one from a distance. I was also by myself. I have not done it again, as I know is definitely something bad. I don’t know if it was God, my guardian angel, a loved one but I can truly say its not a good thing. I think that if we pray like the priest said for God to give us the strength, he will help us and sometimes even answer our questions when we least expect them.
Masturbation has always been a mortal sin:
“Moreover, he [Moses] has rightly detested the weasel [Lev. 11:29]. For he means, ‘Thou shall not be like to those whom we hear of as committing wickedness with the mouth with the body through uncleanness [orally consummated sex]; nor shall thou be joined to those impure women who commit iniquity with the mouth with the body through uncleanness’” Letter of Barnabas 10:8 (A.D. 74).
“Because of its divine institution for the propagation of man, the seed is not to be vainly ejaculated, nor is it to be damaged, nor is it to be wasted” Clement of Alexandria, The Instructor of Children 2:10:91:2 (A.D. 191).
“To have coitus other than to procreate children is to do injury to nature.” St Clement of Alexandria, The Instructor of Children 2:10:95:3 (A.D. 191).
"God gave us eyes not to see and desire pleasure, but to see acts to be performed for the needs of life; so too, the genital ’generating’] part of the body, as the name itself teaches, has been received by us for no other purpose than the generation of offspring.” Lactantius, Divine 6:23:18 (A.D. 307).
“They [certain Egyptian heretics] exercise genital acts, yet prevent the conceiving of children. Not in order to produce offspring, but to satisfy lust, are they eager for corruption.” Epiphanius of Salamis, Medicine Chest Against Heresies 26:5:2 (A.D. 375).
“This proves that you [Manicheans] approve of having a wife, not for the procreation of children, but for the gratification of passion. In marriage, as the marriage law declares, the man and woman come together for the procreation of children. Therefore, whoever makes the procreation of children a greater sin than copulation, forbids marriage and makes the woman not a wife but a mistress, who for some gifts presented to her is joined to the man to gratify his passion.” St Augustine, The Morals of the Manichees 18:65 (A.D. 388).
“Why do you sow where the field is eager to destroy the fruit, where there are medicines of sterility [oral contraceptives], where there is murder before birth? You do not even let a harlot remain only a harlot, but you make her a murderess as well…Indeed, it is something worse than murder, and I do not know what to call it; for she does not kill what is formed but prevents its formation. What then? Do you condemn the gift of God and fight with his [natural] laws?…Yet such turpitude…the matter still seems indifferent to many men—even to many men having wives. In this indifference of the married men there is greater evil filth; for then poisons are prepared, not against the womb of a prostitute, but against your injured wife. Against her are these innumerable tricks.” St John Chrysostom, Homilies on Romans 24 (A.D. 391).
“But I wonder why he [the heretic Jovinianus] set Judah and Tamar before us for an example, unless perchance even harlots give him pleasure; or Onan, who was slain because he grudged his brother seed. Does he imagine that we approve of any sexual intercourse except for the procreation of children?” St Jerome, Against Jovinian 1:19 (A.D. 393).
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Phil_Marinus
Guest
Code:
Yes this sounds very clinical,,, if you lack any human emotion, yes you can live like this, but you would need to live in a monastery locked away ..or perhaps if you were a robot that only worked on batteries ... or you thought of women as nothing more than breeding stock.... yes you could follow these guide lines...
And God Bless you too my son.
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NickD
Guest
^^ this. Thank you
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NickD
Guest
What…I don’t even…
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NickD
Guest
To those who say “masturbation is natural”…well, if you mean natural according to our sinful nature, then yes! But not natural as in wholesome! Goodness, speaking as a teenager, I can tell you the huge problems masturbation and its related sins cause to high schoolers
And to those who can’t understand why a similar thread keeps appearing…we live in a terribly lustful, promiscuous culture. Everywhere you turn, you can be tempted to sin sexually. Almost literally, everywhere. So maybe it pops up because men want to rid their lives of this sin, of this debilitating practice of lust (it’s called a deadly sin for a reason). Where is the charity in at least pointing them in the right direction? At least don’t post complaining about it. That is so much less than helpful
And to those who can’t understand why a similar thread keeps appearing…we live in a terribly lustful, promiscuous culture. Everywhere you turn, you can be tempted to sin sexually. Almost literally, everywhere. So maybe it pops up because men want to rid their lives of this sin, of this debilitating practice of lust (it’s called a deadly sin for a reason). Where is the charity in at least pointing them in the right direction? At least don’t post complaining about it. That is so much less than helpful
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armyross
Guest
I have to disagree on its wrong. I have struggled with this question since I became Catholic. What you and your wife do together is between the two of you and only the two of you. As long as it only involes just you as a couple.
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ccmnxc
Guest
With all due respect, do you have any justification for this?
You realize that is compromises the moral authority, and therefore, infallibility of the Church on faith and morals should you be correct, right?
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armyross
Guest
I don’t need to justify myself its called I can have my own thoughts its called freedom.
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ccmnxc
Guest
Well, when you state something as axiomatically true w/o providing any justification, one may question your intellectual honesty with regards to the topic. Of course, nobody is forcing you at gunpoint to provide justification, but it might be in your best interest to do so to protect your image. You are free to have your own thoughts, but simply because you think one way doesn’t necessarily make it true. Church teaching is clear on its masturbation teachings. You are free to askk why, but it makes me curious if you reject the teaching yet choose to remain Catholic.
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armyross
Guest
I don’t ned to explain anything to you. I am in Afghanstan right now if I dont agree with everything here should I just leave the Army also then???
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