Masturbation while deployed to Iraq.

[Mirror_Mirror]

I really don’t know why you keep ignoring this quote from the CCC but here it goes once more

Let’s take abortion for example. Is there serious matter, yes, God said that you are not to kill. Is there full knowledge, yes, the mother knows that killing is wrong. Is there full consent of the will, yes, you do it anyway.

If those conditions are not met together, the sin is NOT mortal. Those are the qualifying conditions for the sin to be mortal. So once more, yes, if you kill without meeting one or more of those conditions, it is not a mortal sin.

I understand where you are going, I just have a hard time making the leap to a person not knowing that killing is wrong. If we take it back to the OP, he does know that it is wrong. He does it anyway.

We aren’t talking about that part of the CCC, we are talking about the portion which I quoted. If the priest determines that you are or were not in the proper mindset at the time of commission, your culpability may be reduced, with regards to CCC 1857, that could mean you didn’t have full knowledge or your ability to deliberately consent was diminished (as with a compulsion).

It may be reduce, but it is not eliminated.

 

[TimOliv]

Let’s take abortion for example. Is there serious matter, yes, God said that you are not to kill. Is there full knowledge, yes, the mother knows that killing is wrong. Is there full consent of the will, yes, you do it anyway.

I understand where you are going, I just have a hard time making the leap to a person not knowing that killing is wrong. If we take it back to the OP, he does know that it is wrong. He does it anyway.

It may be reduce, but it is not eliminated.

I see the problem. Apparently you do not understand the nature of CCC 1857.

You spouted that off very matter-of-factly, under your guidelines there is absolutely no condition under which abortion is not a mortal sin.

How do you KNOW the mother knows that the abortion is killing a human being? Perhaps her whole life she was raised to believe that the baby prior to birth is lifeless fetus, a potential human life. How then does that constitute full knowledge?
However, this has to be applied on a case by case basis. Full knowledge, as I said, in our society today where school guidance counselors can recommend abortions as legitimate health care solutions and parents tout them as the same, is it really unreasonable to believe that a young woman could grow up in America unaware of what an abortion involves? Therefore, lack of full knowledge.

If your ability to deliberately consent is diminished, you cannot deliberately consent, condition three is eliminated.

For the record, you can kill and have it not be a mortal sin.

Self-defense is one example

However, under your interpretation, even self defense is a mortal sin.

The three conditions must be met and they don’t uniformly apply as you attempted to do earlier. It just doesn’t work that way. Different people have varying levels of knowledge and self control.

 

[DanteAlighieri]

The Church teaching disagrees with your opinion. Masturbation is in the “same league” or “gravity” of sin, i.e., serious and mortal sin, as your other cited sins.

I don’t think this is entirely accurate. See below:

1858 Grave matter is specified by the Ten Commandments, corresponding to the answer of Jesus to the rich young man: “Do not kill, Do not commit adultery, Do not steal, Do not bear false witness, Do not defraud, Honor your father and your mother.” The gravity of sins is more or less great: murder is graver than theft. One must also take into account who is wronged: violence against parents is in itself graver than violence against a stranger.

The Church acknowledges varying degrees of gravity among distinct species of mortal sin.

Peace,
Dante

 

[Mirror_Mirror]

I see the problem. Apparently you do not understand the nature of CCC 1857.

You spouted that off very matter-of-factly, under your guidelines there is absolutely no condition under which abortion is not a mortal sin.

How do you KNOW the mother knows that the abortion is killing a human being? Perhaps her whole life she was raised to believe that the baby prior to birth is lifeless fetus, a potential human life. How then does that constitute full knowledge?
However, this has to be applied on a case by case basis. Full knowledge, as I said, in our society today where school guidance counselors can recommend abortions as legitimate health care solutions and parents tout them as the same, is it really unreasonable to believe that a young woman could grow up in America unaware of what an abortion involves? Therefore, lack of full knowledge.

If your ability to deliberately consent is diminished, you cannot deliberately consent, condition three is eliminated.

For the record, you can kill and have it not be a mortal sin.

Self-defense is one example

However, under your interpretation, even self defense is a mortal sin.

The three conditions must be met and they don’t uniformly apply as you attempted to do earlier. It just doesn’t work that way. Different people have varying levels of knowledge and self control.

I have been trying to get you post count over the triple six number and I finally accomplished that!!

Sorry had to add a bit of humor into this.

I agree about the self defense example. I am not taking into account all killing, I guess and that is my fault.

Also, I understand what you are getting at with the mortal sin, no need to go back and forth and bash that into the ground.

Again, let us fall back to what the OP has questioned, we have hijacked this thread long enough.

I will still hold fast that masturbation is a mortal sin. If it states somewhere that there is a situation that would reduce this to a venial sin (not mortal) please point that out to me. It does not state in the CCC that a priest can decide if the sin is mortal or not. If we take it back to the OP, he has full knowledge and he does it anyway.

 

[TimOliv]

I have been trying to get you post count over the triple six number and I finally accomplished that!!

Sorry had to add a bit of humor into this.

I agree about the self defense example. I am not taking into account all killing, I guess and that is my fault.

Also, I understand what you are getting at with the mortal sin, no need to go back and forth and bash that into the ground.

Again, let us fall back to what the OP has questioned, we have hijacked this thread long enough.

I will still hold fast that masturbation is a mortal sin. If it states somewhere that there is a situation that would reduce this to a venial sin (not mortal) please point that out to me. It does not state in the CCC that a priest can decide if the sin is mortal or not. If we take it back to the OP, he has full knowledge and he does it anyway.

I will end this whole thing with the following statement. The CCC leaves VERY specific conditions with regards to what makes a sin mortal or not. Diminished culpability means that one of those conditions was not met, thus, the sin is not mortal.

An action itself is not a mortal sin, knowledge and willingness to do it despite it being a mortal sin play a big part in it. An inability to stop or a diminished ability to resist play a big part too.

A priest cannot determine what is or is not a mortal sin. That is between the OP (or any individual) and God. However, the Priest, in meeting with a person, can help them to determine whether the sin committed with deliberate consent and if thus, if the sin is mortal, and then help the person to overcome the sin.

His “doing it anyway” does not prove deliberate consent.

 

[Verisimilitude]

I am 31 years old and I am currently deployed to Iraq, and have been in overseas for since June serving a 16 month tour.

I don’t know, but thanks for your service.

 

[BrotherFrancis]

Do justice, love mercy, walk humbly with thy God -Micah 6:8

I have read this thread with great patience and am responding out of concern for each member who has fallen into a “flame war” by bickering back and forth over this issue, while trying to prove who is “right” and who is “wrong.”

Each side is trying to minister to our brother, a poor soldier away from his loving wife, family and friends by giving the soldier an answer to his question.

On one hand are those who quote THE LAW - Masturbation is a mortal sin! Thank you, we now all know the letter of the law … we understood that clearly from the first time you stated your answer. It’s black and white mortal sin … the more you repeat your answer, I STILL know that it IS a mortal sin, no matter how many times you say it, over and over, to infinity.

On the other hand are those who stated that the soldier’s circumstances could mean that there are mitigating circumstances to the level of culpability that may make this simple question a “Big Grey Area” that cannot be simply answered by Forum members. The one suggestion was to take this issue to a Priest and discuss the matter personally and receive the Sacrament of Confession.

No matter how many times each of you tried to explain yourselves - we still progressed nowhere, and may have caused our Brother more stress.

Jesus came to minister to sinners not to the Religious professionals, such as the Pharisees, et al. The woman at the well would not have been ministered to by the Pharisee because she “was a sinner”, yet the very same Pharisees “followed the rules” but didn’t live out the meaning of the LAW in their HEARTS.

It is easy for us to see the speck in someone elses eye, yet not notice the Plank in our own. We are all sinners. For some who stated simply that “it is a mortal sin, surrender in to God, receive His grace and overcome this sin” this may have been EASY for THEM. For other’s it may be a severe addiction; a compulsion; or a justification for themselves to “stay faithful” to his wife, rather than seek gratification elsewhere. Whatever.

Some may find it EASY to NOT KILL; yet how does a soldier or Marine cope with the duty to kill his enemy during this war … it’s not easy, and even if it is easy now, it won’t be years later when they are suffering from PTSD. Should the Catholic be a Pacifist? Is there such a thing as a just war? Does God forgive a soldier who has killed in time of war … only God knows.

Life is not black and white, it is very messy because we are human, we are all sinners, and evil reigns in this world, everyday is a battle for our souls. Jesus’ saving action Redeemed us from our sin. His Love transforms us into other Christs, we are called to love one another. Do some men masturbate? Yes Do some kill? Yes again. Even our professional religious, our priests, bishops, etc are all sinners.

The priest who victimizes a young altar boy and forces him to perform oral sex IS A SINNER, yet Jesus came for us sinners … that is the GOOD NEWS. God Bless, let’s all bring Christ to sinners.

Brother Francis

 

[Edward_H]

I have been deployed now 4 times. It is not easy maintaining purity. I have struggled and failed, and dusted myself off with Confession. Chaplains are helpful.

It’s much easier when in real combat conditions (too much else to worry about) and when you can stay close to God through Mass and frequent and frank Confession. Praying daily helps. Saying the Rosary while on convoys, small moments during the day. Offer up your temptations for your wife and family. And control your imagination in the nanosecond.

Begin again.

 

[Debora123]

It is still a sin, regardless of where you are or why you did it.

However, whether or not you actually have full culpability is between you and God. My personal opinion is, you don’t.

But only God knows what is in your heart, and he will judge you fairly when the time is right.