Masturbation...why?

[lileli]

. That’s a novel interpretation. You must have access to 1st Century crime statistics! Very funny.

Historical records. There is a great series on netflix about it. Historians have been reviewing these things for decades

 

[billcu1]

. That’s a novel interpretation. You must have access to 1st Century crime statistics! Very funny.

If they’re anything like today’s I would throw them away. To much fudging numbers.

 

[lileli]

But you are an adult now . And you know that one cannot sin when asleep, dreaming or in any situation where a free choir is not possible.

Have you seen the musical Spring Awakening?

 

[billcu1]

Have you seen the musical Spring Awakening?

If it has anything to do with Hollywood I’ll pass. I quite watching movies long ago. Liberal bent.

 

[Rau]

That still doesn’t explain why God allows animals to do things that are sinful for humans to do. Why did He create the animals in such a way that they would do these things in the first place since they apparently don’t have any free will like humans do? If masturbating is bad for humans, then why wouldn’t it also be bad for animals even if they won’t be punished for doing it?

That one looks Down to animals to find a guide for how we may act, and view it as a better lesson than provided by Scripture and the Church, is remarkable.

“Why does God allow animals do what for humans would be a sin?” Well that can’t be right, can it! It must be ok for us to do the same thing the animals get away with!

 

[Rau]

It is the way we are wired dear. Humans are designed to have lots of sex and it is probably the only reason we survived in the wild for so long. Animals that are wired to experience sex for pleasure do so and thats just being human.

Those who believe same sex sexual relations are good routinely draw the conclusion that our desires are a guide to what is right. It is easy to see why that view is put. And persons putting the pro “gay sex” case always view masturbstion as a good thing too. It is clear why they must take this position, given their other positions.

 

[lileli]

Those who believe same sex sexual relations are good routinely draw the conclusion that our desires are a guide to what is right. It is easy to see why that view is put. And persons putting the pro “gay sex” case always view masturbstion as a good thing too. It is clear why they must this view, given their other positions.

Rau,I thin you are becoming a little obsessed with my Same Sex marriage position lol. We have plenty of desires. Our desires, like the one to eat keep us alive. Our desire to love is an important desire that does not hurt us.

 

[NovusFidem]

…but to completely discount positive morality is just superimposing a glorification of mankind that isn’t justified.

I didn’t. In fact, The first example I gave that animals have no morality was pertaining to a good act - monkey gives banana to other monkey. Monkey now has friend to defend territory!

I also said that, good action or bad action does NOT equal good moral or bad moral. Animals are Amoral, meaning = NO morality; no good morality, no bad morality, no morality.

Scripture should not be taken literally in all instances and historical/cultural perspectives should always be considered.

Of course some stories were historic, while others were illustrative. However, what ALL of them have in common? Teaching something.

ALL of them are there to teach us something. So, even if something is positively implausible, the teaching they transmit is Truth.

So, yeah, maybe God didn’t create the world in 7 days, and we probably did evolve from the monkeys. However, He did use that story to pass the following teachings:

1. God created everything; (Genesis 1:1-31)
2. God made men in His image (Genesis 1:26-27);
3. God made animals to serve humans (genesis 1:26).

Just because it didn’t happen the way the Bible says it happened, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen for the purpose the Bible says it happened.

Not every animal eats their young. That’s mostly spiders and the ones that do usually only eat the sick and we’ll ones. It’s how God programmed them.

Mostly spiders? What about female dogs eating their puppies? A victorious lion eating the lion cubs of the lion he just defeated (just so the lionesses of the pride can copulate again)? Many chimps killing baby chimps for the same reason as the lion?

It is, indeed, how God programmed them. It is also true that, what they do is not a bad thing. It is a neutral thing, not good nor bad, simply because they lack MORALS.

God made US is His image, and animals to serve us. If life is enough to be in His image, then we should consider plants as moral beings, bacteria, viruses…

 

[lileli]

I didn’t. In fact, The first example I gave that animals have no morality was pertaining to a good act - monkey gives banana to other monkey. Monkey now has friend to defend territory!

I also said that, good action or bad action does NOT equal good moral or bad moral. Animals are Amoral, meaning = NO morality; no good morality, no bad morality, no morality.

And you don’t think that the vast majority of human actions are for self serving reasons? Not only do we fight for territory but we committed mass genocide for territory .

Of course some stories were historic, while others were illustrative. However, what ALL of them have in common? Teaching something.

ALL of them are there to teach us something. So, even if something is positively implausible, the teaching they transmit is Truth.

So, yeah, maybe God didn’t create the world in 7 days, and we probably did evolve from the monkeys. However, He did use that story to pass the following teachings:

1. God created everything; (Genesis 1:1-31)
2. God made men in His image (Genesis 1:26-27);
3. God made animals to serve humans (genesis 1:26).

Just because it didn’t happen the way the Bible says it happened, doesn’t mean it didn’t happen for the purpose the Bible says it happened.

Mostly spiders? What about female dogs eating their puppies? A victorious lion eating the lion cubs of the lion he just defeated (just so the lionesses of the pride can copulate again)? Many chimps killing baby chimps for the same reason as the lion?

Dogs normally don’t eat their puppies. I can find example of women eating their young. Lions usually do kill the cubs of the pride if the dominate lion dies, yes but again that is their way. Chimps kill the young during war…sounds familiar. Chimps and humans are not really different at all.
It is, indeed, how God programmed them. It is also true that, what they do is not a bad thing. It is a neutral thing, not good nor bad, simply because they lack MORALS.

God made US is His image, and animals to serve us. If life is enough to be in His image, then we should consider plants as moral beings, bacteria, viruses…

Without bees we could not live. We depend on them so much. Eventually we may destroy ourselves because we are destroying them.

 

[Rau]

Rau,I thin you are becoming a little obsessed with my Same Sex marriage position lol. We have plenty of desires. Our desires, like the one to eat keep us alive. Our desire to love is an important desire that does not hurt us.

So one can reliably conclude that desires are a sure guide for what is right? And the fact that we desire some things which are good proves that?

 

[CHRISTINE77]

It is the way we are wired dear. Humans are designed to have lots of sex and it is probably the only reason we survived in the wild for so long. Animals that are wired to experience sex for pleasure do so and thats just being human.

People usually only have one baby at a time, while animals generally have litters. People have become civilized so that they are not living in the wild anymore and aren’t very attuned to the natural world anymore, such the seasons, and the lunar cycles and the weather, whereas most animals live completely in the natural world.

Back in the 1800s woman had huge amounts of children, but I bet they weren’t having sex everyday! Same with the men, they were busy farming from sun up to sun down.

Sex, especially it’s more depraved forms, comes from a life of leisure, where people who have nothing else to do but think of sex day in and day out. I truly believe the idiom that idle hands really are the devil’s workshop, a very apt description of those who are addicted to sex and masturbation.

 

[CHRISTINE77]

Rau,I thin you are becoming a little obsessed with my Same Sex marriage position lol. We have plenty of desires. Our desires, like the one to eat keep us alive. Our desire to love is an important desire that does not hurt us.

Sex does NOT equal love! and if you eat too much, you will become obese.

 

[lileli]

Sex does NOT equal love! and if you eat too much, you will become obese.

Of course but healthy living leads to great health

 

[NovusFidem]

And you don’t think that the vast majority of human actions are for self serving reasons? Not only do we fight for territory but we committed mass genocide for territory.

Pay close attention.

When WE do something out of selfishness, WE sin.

When animals do something out of selfishness, they do NOT sin.

You really need to understand what Morality is.

Dictionary definition: “**principles **concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior.”

Do you think a lion understands that, when he kills a lion cub, that he is doing something bad? Do you think a bee understands that, when she accidentally pollinates a flower, she is doing something good?

They don’t. They don’t have that understanding. They do not study principles nor theories. They know the sun comes up and goes down, but they do not know why, and they do not want to find out why - they do not SEEK the Truth, as WE are called to do.

They are like babies, who slap people because that is what babies do, not because baby wants to make people suffer.

The lion doesn’t want the lion cubs to suffer; he simply does not recognize suffering. He does not recognize when an action is evil. He does whatever he thinks the best course of action is.

Without bees we could not live. We depend on them so much. Eventually we may destroy ourselves because we are destroying them.

Well, DUH. Animals were created to serve us, and to do that they need to be alive. Which is why humans, as the administrators of what God gave us, need to take care of Nature. Isn’t this what Pope Francis encyclical was about?

 

[lileli]

Pay close attention.

When WE do something out of selfishness, WE sin.

When animals do something out of selfishness, they do NOT sin.

You really need to understand what Morality is.

We all do things out of self interest, all of us.

Dictionary definition: “**principles **concerning the distinction between right and wrong or good and bad behavior.”

Do you think a lion understands that, when he kills a lion cub, that he is doing something bad? Do you think a bee understands that, when she accidentally pollinates a flower, she is doing something good?

You are judging animals through human understanding of the world. Animals sense the world very differently due to different strength of senses.
They don’t. They don’t have that understanding. They do not study principles nor theories. They know the sun comes up and goes down, but they do not know why, and they do not want to find out why - they do not SEEK the Truth, as WE are called to do.

AHH! exactly we have science that tells us that certain things we do are natural and healthy thus should not be considered sinful.
They are like babies, who slap people because that is what babies do, not because baby wants to make people suffer.

The lion doesn’t want the lion cubs to suffer; he simply does not recognize suffering. He does not recognize when an action is evil. He does whatever he thinks the best course of action is.

Again, we don’t know how they perceive the world.

Well, DUH. Animals were created to serve us, and to do that they need to be alive. Which is why humans, as the administrators of what God gave us, need to take care of Nature. Isn’t this what Pope Francis encyclical was about?

Did God make the dinosaurs the first administrators?

 

[NovusFidem]

Did God make the dinosaurs the first administrators?

(ask Him)

No. Conjecture time: He probably made them so that they would die, become tar, then petroleum, so that we could make oil out of them to move our CARS.

Literally speaking: God created the whole Universe with us in mind, even though everything (time, space, matter) existed for so long BEFORE our creation.

**Figuratively speaking: **God created everything in the first 5 days, having in mind that He would create men in the 6th day. Just because Adam and Eve didn’t exist in those first 5 days, doesn’t mean that things weren’t created for them.

Or do you wait for the baby to be born in order to buy the crib, diapers and clothes? We usually get everything ready for his arrival. And so did God.

 

[lileli]

(ask Him)

No. Conjecture time: He probably made them so that they would die, become tar, then petroleum, so that we could make oil out of them to move our CARS.

Literally speaking: God created the whole Universe with us in mind, even though everything (time, space, matter) existed for so long BEFORE our creation.

**Figuratively speaking: **God created everything in the first 5 days, having in mind that He would create men in the 6th day. Just because Adam and Eve didn’t exist in those first 5 days, doesn’t mean that things weren’t created for them.

Or do you wait for the baby to be born in order to buy the crib, diapers and clothes? We usually get everything ready for his arrival. And so did God.

I don’t think God creating everything around us. I think we are special to him, but I don’t think we are the center of the universe. I have a question. If alien life is found(regardless if its a bacteria or intelligent life) would that shake your faith.

 

[NovusFidem]

Also, this is the **Moral **Theology topic, but you don’t seem to understand Morality from any of the understandings currently accepted/discussed by Philosophy. Since the purpose of the topic is not to explain what is morality, I’ll give up trying.

 

[lileli]

Also, this is the **Moral **Theology topic, but you don’t seem to understand Morality from any of the understandings currently accepted/discussed by Philosophy. Since the purpose of the topic is not to explain what is morality, I’ll give up trying.

I do enjoy the discussion. In terms of the addiction I highly highly recommend a CSAT therapist to start.

 

[NovusFidem]

I don’t think God creating everything around us. I think we are special to him, but I don’t think we are the center of the universe. I have a question. If alien life is found(regardless if its a bacteria or intelligent life) would that shake your faith.

No, it wouldn’t. If it were far more complex aliens with reason and moral understandings, I’ll even **bet **they have some sort of Christianity going around in their home planet.

You have to make something clear for us: are you a Christian that accepts Jesus as your Saviour and the Bible as the Word of God? (I’m sounding like some Protestants now…)

If you do, then I recommend you make peace with the Bible first, because it clearly states HOW special we are. Jesus didn’t die to save dogs, monkeys, cats or birds from sin.

We are animals, but much more than them at the same time. Just as Jesus is man, but much more than us at the same time.