Masturbation?

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HoneyBea said:
Masturbation is a mortal sin so basically 99.1 percent of people are going to hell?
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If it’s judged by the residents of this forum I’m surprised the figures that low to be honest. More like 99.9999998%
 
I don’t mean to intercept this discussion, but I do think it may contribute or at least offer another question to ponder. There is something that always bothered me about this topic and it is this:

The church says that masturbation is mortal sin.

The church accepts and embraces the “science” (***see below) of psychology and its ideas and has even incorporated and employed its ideas into teaching of the church in recent years.

The “science” of psychology teaches that there is nothing wrong with masturbation, and in fact according to them it is even helpful and good and even necessary for mental and sexual development.

(Side note: To my knowledge, I’ve never seen a psychology paper written on how it is bad for you or that it has ill effects. If anything regarding it being bad I have only seen it written that someone who is psychotic might engage in it in public, but that is about it.)

How do you reconcile those three outlined points above?
  • ***(I put the term in quotes because honestly there is still a lot of debate out there on it being a science- not trying to be rude or sound like I dismiss it outright. I’m also NOT trying to say that I believe masturbation is ok or normal or that it is not a sin.) *
 
AnneElizabeth said:
I don’t mean to intercept this discussion, but I do think it may contribute or at least offer another question to ponder. There is something that always bothered me about this topic and it is this:

The church says that masturbation is mortal sin.

The church accepts and embraces the “science” (***see below) of psychology and its ideas and has even incorporated and employed its ideas into teaching of the church in recent years.

The “science” of psychology teaches that there is nothing wrong with masturbation, and in fact according to them it is even helpful and good and even necessary for mental and sexual development.

(Side note: To my knowledge, I’ve never seen a psychology paper written on how it is bad for you or that it has ill effects. If anything regarding it being bad I have only seen it written that someone who is psychotic might engage in it in public, but that is about it.)

How do you reconcile those three outlined points above?
  • ***(I put the term in quotes because honestly there is still a lot of debate out there on it being a science- not trying to be rude or sound like I dismiss it outright. I’m also NOT trying to say that I believe masturbation is ok or normal or that it is not a sin.) *
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Does “science” say such?

Or do some scientists say so?

Does the Church embrace wrong ideas proposed by scientists? Or even “bad science”? No.

Does Church embrace science? That truth can be discovered in say the sciences of psychology? Sure.

But also a lot of things that are not true and not good are proposed by scientists in that field. Lots.

And guess what -they often contradict each other or change from year to year etc.

There is no “science of psychology” that is a one thing to agree with or embrace.
 
Oreoracle said:
The variety of opinions held by Catholics is far greater than you imagine, I think. I’m not aware of the Church’s “official” position on the matter, but there are certainly some Catholics who argue that, without lust, masturbation isn’t wrong.

Since this is a forum wherein opinions like the above are meant to be shared, our friend should be made aware of this opinion held by several Catholics, should he not?
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There are opinions, and then there is doctrine. An opinion is not necessarily in alignment with Church teaching. There is absolutely zero grey area in regards to the Church’s teaching in this matter: masturbation is a perversion of one’s sexuality and is inherently sinful with or without “fantasizing”. The deliberately intentional stimulation is sinful. Opinions simply are irrelevant and do not matter.
 
HoneyBea said:
Masturbation is a mortal sin so basically 99.1 percent of people are going to hell?
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That is what God said, isn’t it? Jesus did say that a lot of people would not see. They will follow the broad path that leads to destruction. Sad to say. But God said it was true. We can’t judge what is right or wrong on by what the majority of people do, or what our natural inclinations are either, but only what God says is right and just or not.
 
AnneElizabeth said:
I don’t mean to intercept this discussion, but I do think it may contribute or at least offer another question to ponder. There is something that always bothered me about this topic and it is this:

The church says that masturbation is mortal sin.

The church accepts and embraces the “science” (***see below) of psychology and its ideas and has even incorporated and employed its ideas into teaching of the church in recent years.

The “science” of psychology teaches that there is nothing wrong with masturbation, and in fact according to them it is even helpful and good and even necessary for mental and sexual development.

(Side note: To my knowledge, I’ve never seen a psychology paper written on how it is bad for you or that it has ill effects. If anything regarding it being bad I have only seen it written that someone who is psychotic might engage in it in public, but that is about it.)

How do you reconcile those three outlined points above?
  • ***(I put the term in quotes because honestly there is still a lot of debate out there on it being a science- not trying to be rude or sound like I dismiss it outright. I’m also NOT trying to say that I believe masturbation is ok or normal or that it is not a sin.) *
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As a professional educator, I’m also interested in how this question should be answered. I really wish there was a Catholic Psychiatrist on these boards!!!:rolleyes:
 
kozlosap said:
As a professional educator, I’m also interested in how this question should be answered. I really wish there was a Catholic Psychiatrist on these boards!!!:rolleyes:
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I think modern psychology would tend to also say that using birth control is ok and healthy. Or that homosexual acts are ok and healthy.

So.

That is why psychology is not science nor an authority on religion.
 
Jon_S said:
I think modern psychology would tend to also say that using birth control is ok and healthy. Or that homosexual acts are ok and healthy.

So.

That is why psychology is not science nor an authority on religion.
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Ok then, why does the church EMPLOY it ?

I heard some lady who is in the catholic church who is also a practicing psychiatry say that St. Francis of Assisi had the mental ailment of anorexia. She used the ‘science’ of psychology and its findings to prove her point that he had in fact suffered from this ‘mental illness’. She EMPLOYED this science and its findings to arrive at that point. She was a “Catholic psychiatrist”. Keep this in mind as I go on to the next paragraph>>

If you feel that you are being called to the religious life, you have to go through a psychological test to make sure you don’t have a ‘mental illness’. If your test finds that you have anorexia or any other mental impairment then it is decided that you *don’t *have a true calling.**… HOWEVER the founder according to those same principals and findings (the science of psychology) wouldn’t have passed the test himself. So it doesn’t make any sense at all. ** Why was the founder ok to do what he did, but those who felt called to it were NOT just because of the employment of some ideas that are seemingly at times and possibly most times outside and contrary to the faith?

If you EMPLOY something to use you are placing your trust in it. You are saying that it holds truths and values that are SAFE to employ, otherwise you would not use it. If you found them to be safe, how can you go back and pick and sift through some ones that don’t fit- especially when it is a supposed ‘science’? I mean, faith has nothing to do with things that are seen! If it were, it would not be faith!

FURTHERMORE, if psychiatry is not a science, then we are employing something that is either total baloney or it is some other method of faith, of belief system. Why would the church be borrowing from some other faith system other than its own?
 
AnneElizabeth said:
Ok then, why does the church EMPLOY it ?

I heard some lady who is in the catholic church who is also a practicing psychiatry say that St. Francis of Assisi had the mental ailment of anorexia. She used the ‘science’ of psychology and its findings to prove her point that he had in fact suffered from this ‘mental illness’. She EMPLOYED this science and its findings to arrive at that point. She was a “Catholic psychiatrist”. Keep this in mind as I go on to the next paragraph>>

If you feel that you are being called to the religious life, you have to go through a psychological test to make sure you don’t have a ‘mental illness’. If your test finds that you have anorexia or any other mental impairment then it is decided that you *don’t *have a true calling.**… HOWEVER the founder according to those same principals and findings (the science of psychology) wouldn’t have passed the test himself. So it doesn’t make any sense at all. ** Why was the founder ok to do what he did, but those who felt called to it were NOT just because of the employment of some ideas that are seemingly at times and possibly most times outside and contrary to the faith?

If you EMPLOY something to use you are placing your trust in it. You are saying that it holds truths and values that are SAFE to employ, otherwise you would not use it. If you found them to be safe, how can you go back and pick and sift through some ones that don’t fit- especially when it is a supposed ‘science’? I mean, faith has nothing to do with things that are seen! If it were, it would not be faith!

FURTHERMORE, if psychiatry is not a science, then we are employing something that is either total baloney or it is some other method of faith, of belief system. Why would the church be borrowing from some other faith system other than its own?
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Of course it has value. But it does not mean it’s infallible or trumps the church. Every aspect of psychology is debated and divided.

Like anything, it is valuable when it is in line with Gods truth as held by his church.

Some psychologists would say that believing in God is nothing more than a brain delusion. There are many books on this.

That doesn’t mean the psychology regarding schizophrenia is false or true. They are not contingent on each other.
 
Bookcat said:
Does “science” say such?

Or do some scientists say so?

Does the Church embrace wrong ideas proposed by scientists? Or even “bad science”? No.

Does Church embrace science? That truth can be discovered in say the sciences of psychology? Sure.

But also a lot of things that are not true and not good are proposed by scientists in that field. Lots.

And guess what -they often contradict each other or change from year to year etc.

There is no “science of psychology” that is a one thing to agree with or embrace.
Click to expand...
 
Bookcat,

If I am understanding you correctly, you are trying to agree that psychiatry is no ‘science’ and that all can agree on that?
 
AnneElizabeth said:
Bookcat,

If I am understanding you correctly, you are trying to agree that psychiatry is no ‘science’ and that all can agree on that?
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Hum I do not know if I can say “psychiatry” is among the sciences under the young sciences of psychology or not. I imagine many can argue back and forth about such.
 
AnneElizabeth said:
If I am understanding you correctly, you are trying to agree that psychiatry is no ‘science’ and that all can agree on that?
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I think it’s better summerized as anything that supports Church teaching is to be acceptedwhile anything that would suggest anything contrary to it should be shunned on principle.

The Church has previously proven itself willing to accept Psychiatric analysis, such as a number of reports submitted to the Archdiocese during the Newfoundland scandal. However, when it produces anything that would contradict the churches view it must be rejected on principle.

The Church to believers trumps all other authorities matters regarding sexuality, morality or supernatural. A conclusion, study or theory will only be acknowledged if it does not tread on the Churches toes or step into it’s domain.
 
Thank you all guys for reply’s, i got a question, how can i confess this sin ? I mean what to say to the priest about it. I wa addicted to it,but now thanks god i stopped it,i prayed a lot to dont do it anymore,because it feels wrong and it against god.
 
Yes it is a sin. Anything doing with sexual organs that’s not life giving is (thus including sex with contraceptives and oral sex) as well as premarital sex of course. It is also a mortal sin but that doesn’t mean you’re going to hell. You can be forgiven of course
 
CatholicAlbo said:
Thank you all guys for reply’s, i got a question, how can i confess this sin ? I mean what to say to the priest about it. I wa addicted to it,but now thanks god i stopped it,i prayed a lot to dont do it anymore,because it feels wrong and it against god.
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Just say as much as you want, they don’t need your whole story. Every time you do it after you sin you have to go back and say it all over again though, just remember that the next time you think about it.
 
matt_s0688 said:
Just say as much as you want, they don’t need your whole story. Every time you do it after you sin you have to go back and say it all over again though, just remember that the next time you think about it.
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Thank you 🙂
 
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