Materialist / scientist view of salvation

[IanAG]

As I ponder my Christian faith I feel confident that salvation for mankind is the work of God.

It left me wondering where materialists and scientists believe our salvation lies, or even if they believe that we need to be saved.

Any thoughts from those who have this view of life would be welcome…but please try to explain to me where you place your hope rather than criticise mine.

Thanks.

 

[Beryllos]

Materialist and scientist are two different things.

The materialist, if I understand correctly, believes that the physical world (universe, multiverse) is all that exists.

The scientist examines and ponders the physical world. Some scientists are materialists, but it is also possible for a scientist to admit that there can be, or believe that there is, something else.

I don’t think that the concept of salvation has any meaning to a materialist.

 

[Pattylt]

As an agnostic and a materialist, I have nothing I need salvation for! When I die, I return to the stardust that I originated from.

Even Judaism doesn’t view salvation in the way Christians do. All people become part of Gods Kingdom or The World to Come. The point of our life here is to live it as best we can and hopefully leave it just a little bit better.

It’s Christianity that put doors and locks on heaven and made rules for entrance. It wasn’t needed.

 

[Freddy]

As I ponder my Christian faith I feel confident that salvation for mankind is the work of God.

It left me wondering where materialists… believe our salvation lies…

That’s like asking where materialists believe unicorns live.

 

[IanAG]

That’s like asking where materialists believe unicorns live

Thanks Freddy. So does that mean that you don’t believe we have the need for salvation, or just that there is no such thing as salvation?

 

[Freddy]

Freddy:

That’s like asking where materialists believe unicorns live

Thanks Freddy. So does that mean that you don’t believe we have the need for salvation, or just that there is no such thing as salvation?

I think that would be both. I have nothing to be saved from.

 

[IanAG]

If you agree that there is no need for salvation, then I suppose that you’re saying the world is okay just as it is. Interestingly I read this definition of the materialists view of redemption / salvation earlier…

‘Overcoming ignorance caused by belief in the supernatural (religious and otherwise) and employing reason alone to solve all human problems’

Obviously I don’t agree with it, but within a materialist worldview it makes sense.

This is obviously at odds with the Christian view that the created order, and particularly humanity, has fallen into disorder, and that the doctrine of salvation deals with the means of the restoration of the created order, and above all humanity, to its proper relationship with God.

 

[po18guy]

You will notice that some atheists and other non-believers may be upset, at odds with, or even angry with life. Not all, but enough to receive notice. A couple of nights ago, I watched Fr. Benedict Groeschel† on YouTube. He spoke of apocalypses and those who experienced them and have lived through them. The nuclear bombs in Hiroshima and Nagasaki, wildfires, tornadoes, floods - all are apocalyptic events that could easily have brought about one’s demise.

He noted that the atheist’s entire life is apocalyptic, as they are proceeding toward nothingness. Each day a step closer to, not eternal life, but non=existence. Living an apocalyptic life by choice takes a heavy toll and it shows in the oppositional and combative attitudes of some non-believers.

For the believer, hell would seem to be the ultimate apocalypse. As I see it, those living an apocalyptic life may indeed be existing in a living hell.

For opponents of this line of thought, “kindly” note that I said “not all.”

 

[Beryllos]

‘Overcoming ignorance caused by belief in the supernatural (religious and otherwise) and employing reason alone to solve all human problems’

I’ve seen that under another name. I am not certain of the terminology, but I might be thinking of humanism and/or progressivism. Salvation is envisioned as overcoming human problems. It is assumed that humans have the capacity to do this, and therefore no need for God.

In the Christian view, salvation is seen as overcoming sin, perfecting love, and destroying death. Humans can only accomplish this with God’s help.

 

[HerCrazierHalf]

If you agree that there is no need for salvation, then I suppose that you’re saying the world is okay just as it is.

To error Is human. I think I would eschew the term “salvation” and instead say we need to improve ourselves and the world. My understanding of “salvation” implies that we are broken or missing something beyond our ability to fix or work around.

Compared to previous centuries the world is much improved but not perfect, not well it ever be. Pandemics occur but have no where near the death rate as the Black Plague. Large scale wars between nations is at a historical low. Etc etc

Oddly, I think most believers and most non believers take similar steps towards this on the material side of things via charity, politics, and generally helping our fellow man.

 

[Pattylt]

I’ve seen that under another name. I am not certain of the terminology, but I might be thinking of humanism and/or progressivism. Salvation is envisioned as overcoming human problems. It is assumed that humans have the capacity to do this, and therefore no need for God.

Humanism is an apt word for this view. The term salvation implies something to be saved from outside our own abilities. Humanists usually take the position that we are capable of solving many of our problems and by helping others, can achieve a much better life. Not all humanists are atheist/agnostic, either. Some religious people realize that we could achieve much greater happiness without religious conflicts, societal conflicts and cultural conflicts. We need to quit looking for others to solve our problems, including…for the atheist/agnostic…God.

Giving credit to God for all our progress is fine but from an atheist perspective, it’s pretty obvious that humans really did the work. Often, religions got in the way more than helping.

Humanism isn’t a self centered view. It’s the realization that working together accomplishes much more than apart. I think most Christians agree with this, they just center it on God being the uniter and helping humans accomplish goals. Atheists accept that it’s up to humans to get stuff done. No supernatural help.

 

[Dan_Defender]

You will notice that some atheists and other non-believers may be upset, at odds with, or even angry with life.

On the flip side, there is a group that actually LOVES this life. The reasoning being that if nothing after death is the end for all, one must enjoy this life to the max. Such atheists would never spend a minute posting on CAF, they are too busy enjoying all life has to offer.

 

[Beryllos]

Such atheists would never spend a minute posting on CAF, they are too busy enjoying all life has to offer.

You mean CAF is not the best that life has to offer???

 

[po18guy]

They are written of in the Book of Wisdom, chapter 2.

 

[Fati]

As an agnostic and a materialist, I have nothing I need salvation for! When I die, I return to the stardust that I originated from.

Howard Storm had a NDE that thought the same way you think.
But when your spirit leaves your body . it makes you think differently

 

[Dan123]

If you agree that there is no need for salvation, then I suppose that you’re saying the world is okay just as it is.

If you reject the idea of reincarnation, then I suppose you’re saying you’re perfect the way you are and have nothing to atone for.

 

[Pattylt]

Pattylt:

As an agnostic and a materialist, I have nothing I need salvation for! When I die, I return to the stardust that I originated from.

Howard Storm had a NDE that thought the same way you think.
But when your spirit leaves your body . it makes you think differently

I’m not particularly looking for an NDE discussion. I will just state that the experiences NDEs have has been demonstrated to occur with any low oxygen to the brain type of event. Near death isn’t dead.