Maternal Age as a serious reason to avoid pregnancy

[Cathmomof6]

You ask “how could you possibly determine this?”. I ask - how could anyone else possibly determine it for you? If what you are trying to say is that the decision is very “subjective” - I agree with you.

Another question that one might ask is…How can I have sex with my husband while I am fertile, if simultaneously I am anxious to avoid a child? I know that if I am interested in sex, but my wife is tired and not likewise inclined, I instantly lose interest in having sex. The idea of the other party not being “in the mood” makes the whole idea of sex inappropriate in my mind. I’d feel the same way (during fertile times) if my wife was wishing not to have a child. I don’t understand how one can freely engage in sex (while fertile) at the same time one is hoping not to become pregnant. Perhaps the attitude to the (potential) child needs to be resolved first?

What about the thought of a long period of NFP sickens you?

I don’t

First, my cycles have never been regular and there are just so many days of questionable fertility - so much gray area. I would love a method that just tells you concretely yes you are fertile or no you are not!! We have used STM but temperatures are difficult to use until I am cycling regularly and I never have more than a few cycles before I am pregnant again. With Creighton, I had a little mucus almost every day so therefore no relations, it was difficult for me to make 100% observations, especially before urination, and our instuctor was inconveniently about 1.5 hours away and would even charge me for phone consultations. I used Marquette postpartum before my last pregnancy and was able to determine when I first ovulated, we abstained until last peak day plus 4, as advised, and still got pregnant.

And then we have the “last minute decisions”! Days when all is going well, we are both in good moods, questionable fertility, but we decide to be together anyways. These are the real stinkers because if we were to sit down and rationally weigh out all the pros and cons, we would most probably decide in all prudence to “be done”. After all, we have 7, are approaching 40, I already have arthritic hips, I am often overwhelmed with demands at home, and I know my husband is stressed about financially supporting us all …BUT…I always end up with labor/delivery imminent and wondering what the heck were we thinking:shrug: This is where I see an advantage to ABC/sterilization since you can decide this with your “rational” mind!!!, but maybe I don’t have all the answers!!!

That is why long term NFP use does not excite me!! And I do realize no one here can tell me what to do, but it is helpful to get others opinions. I just do not know any other couple practicing NFP in real life who I would be comfortable discussing this!!! I am pretty sure most use ABC or get sterilized - at least everyone in me or hubby’s family! Even my mom, who is devoutly catholic, had her tubes tied after her last baby at 36 was thought to have Down syndrome ((but did not))!

Thank you for the discussion! Something to ponder!!

 

[Xantippe]

CatholicMomof6:

“I just do not know any other couple practicing NFP in real life who I would be comfortable discussing this!!!”

In real life, I can’t imagine discussing my family planning with anybody besides my husband. Even with my OB (who is not Catholic, let alone NFP-only), I tend to be fairly vague with plans. I don’t think my pride would survive telling my OB, “We’re planning to try to use NFP to avoid–forever” and then showing up pregnant a year later after all we’ve been through together with my last two pregnancies. Plus, I’m honestly not that certain, and I don’t see the point in starting a conversation where the punchline will be her saying, “You know you can get your tubes tied!” I just keep it vague and tell her I’m happy with our spacing (which I am).

I like to keep things vague enough about our family planning that whatever happens, nobody is in a position to be able to tell any of my kids that they were an “accident.”

 

[leonie]

CatholicMomof6:

“I just do not know any other couple practicing NFP in real life who I would be comfortable discussing this!!!”

In real life, I can’t imagine discussing my family planning with anybody besides my husband. Even with my OB (who is not Catholic, let alone NFP-only), I tend to be fairly vague with plans. I don’t think my pride would survive telling my OB, “We’re planning to try to use NFP to avoid–forever” and then showing up pregnant a year later after all we’ve been through together with my last two pregnancies. Plus, I’m honestly not that certain, and I don’t see the point in starting a conversation where the punchline will be her saying, “You know you can get your tubes tied!” I just keep it vague and tell her I’m happy with our spacing (which I am).

I like to keep things vague enough about our family planning that whatever happens, nobody is in a position to be able to tell any of my kids that they were an “accident.”

Smart:thumbsup:

 

[Hoosier_Daddy]

CatholicMomof6:

“I just do not know any other couple practicing NFP in real life who I would be comfortable discussing this!!!”

In real life, I can’t imagine discussing my family planning with anybody besides my husband. Even with my OB (who is not Catholic, let alone NFP-only), I tend to be fairly vague with plans. I don’t think my pride would survive telling my OB, “We’re planning to try to use NFP to avoid–forever” and then showing up pregnant a year later after all we’ve been through together with my last two pregnancies. Plus, I’m honestly not that certain, and I don’t see the point in starting a conversation where the punchline will be her saying, “You know you can get your tubes tied!” I just keep it vague and tell her I’m happy with our spacing (which I am).

I like to keep things vague enough about our family planning that whatever happens, nobody is in a position to be able to tell any of my kids that they were an “accident.”

This is totally off topic but just because I really have no where else to put it and I certainly don’t want to start a thread about it…

Since we were NFP instructors we have been not only vocal about our sex life to relative strangers (like in the Marriage prep classes) but also with friends when we talk of NFP issues and struggles. My best friend and I discuss, frequency, struggles, and the “man stuff” frequently. I know my wife discusses things with her mom (weird) and also her friends. I guess most NFP instructors or advocates I have met have been similar. You kind of lose any sense of privacy with others when discussing “SR” Seminal residue on the charts and how to differentiate between it and cervical mucus.

But there was a new ah ha moment the other day when we were in the car and my oldest daughter (8) Says,

(DD) Mommy, I have a question for you?
(DW) Sure honey what is it?
(DD) Why is it sometimes at night I hear you breathing real hard like this (makes noises) and it sounds like you are jumping on the bed and are scared of something?
(DW) (stammers)
(ME)(spits out water and nearly drives off road)

Ah, the theology of the body of having 4 kids in a small house.

 

[Rau]

First, my cycles have never been regular and there are just so many days of questionable fertility - so much gray area. I would love a method that just tells you concretely yes you are fertile or no you are not!! We have used STM but temperatures are difficult to use until I am cycling regularly and I never have more than a few cycles before I am pregnant again. With Creighton, I had a little mucus almost every day so therefore no relations, it was difficult for me to make 100% observations, especially before urination, and our instuctor was inconveniently about 1.5 hours away and would even charge me for phone consultations. I used Marquette postpartum before my last pregnancy and was able to determine when I first ovulated, we abstained until last peak day plus 4, as advised, and still got pregnant.

And then we have the “last minute decisions”! Days when all is going well, we are both in good moods, questionable fertility, but we decide to be together anyways. These are the real stinkers because if we were to sit down and rationally weigh out all the pros and cons, we would most probably decide in all prudence to “be done”. After all, we have 7, are approaching 40, I already have arthritic hips, I am often overwhelmed with demands at home, and I know my husband is stressed about financially supporting us all …BUT…I always end up with labor/delivery imminent and wondering what the heck were we thinking:shrug: This is where I see an advantage to ABC/sterilization since you can decide this with your “rational” mind!!!, but maybe I don’t have all the answers!!!

That is why long term NFP use does not excite me!! And I do realize no one here can tell me what to do, but it is helpful to get others opinions. I just do not know any other couple practicing NFP in real life who I would be comfortable discussing this!!! I am pretty sure most use ABC or get sterilized - at least everyone in me or hubby’s family! Even my mom, who is devoutly catholic, had her tubes tied after her last baby at 36 was thought to have Down syndrome ((but did not))!

Thank you for the discussion! Something to ponder!!

I guess if determining when you ovulate is proving a problem, I sympathise. I would have thought getting pregnant on peak + 4 is not possible, which suggests peak was not peak!

 

[Povero]

Since I asked this question in another thread, I would like to restate the details since this topic is a big one for me right now. I am 37 and hubby is 39. We just had our 7th healthy baby march 25. When I was 19 weeks pregnant we were told our baby could have trisomy 18, a genetic abnormality more likely with advanced maternal age. After a lot of stress and tests and meetings with genetic counselors and hearing how “old” we were, everything turned out fine. I have had 7 relatively easy pregnancies and deliveries, no miscarriages or stillborns, we are financially stable. Basically my only reason for not having another baby is age!

On other threads it as been stated that each couple must decide for themselves, but how could you possibly determine this? I need some more concrete advice!! Could we handle a baby with a genetic problem? How could we possibly know this without experiencing it? Would I feel guilty for purposely conceiving a baby with lifelong struggles when well aware of the increased risks? Most definitely - especially when others would view it as imprudent!!! But why are we fertile well past 35 if conception should be avoided?? It sickens me to think of NFP for the next 10 years or so.

Suppose the testing had NOT turned “out fine”? What option is there, to kill the unborn? God has His purpose, we do not know what it is. I prayed to raise a child, I got pregnant at age 39 (didn’t even realize I was pregnant until six or seven weeks in!). My child appeared “normal” but she was not. She had Asperger’s Syndrome (in 1987 no one knew what this was) and, as she entered her teens, she suffered onset of schizophrenia and serious bipolar disorder and took her life at age 23. SHOULD I HAVE ABORTED HER? God prepared me to mother this child with a lifetime of struggle and effort to grow personally and spiritually. With any other mother, she would have suffered a horrible childhood. With me, she had a glorious childhood. I lost her to this devastating combination of illness but God foresaw that (even though I refuse to believe He ordained it) and gave me the strength, courage, love and selflessness needed to parent this fragile, beautiful soul. If you conceive after age 40, is it because you “got lucky”? Is that what you think Human conception is, a lottery? I live every day with the horror of seeing my brilliant, beautiful child slowly disappear into an illness so complex that there wasn’t time to even search for any combination of medication to deal with it. He answered my prayer: He gave me a child to raise. Life and death are not in our hands: the conception of life is not in our hands. If we think it is, then we don’t believe in God.

 

[marywarfield]

Suppose the testing had NOT turned “out fine”? What option is there, to kill the unborn? God has His purpose, we do not know what it is. I prayed to raise a child, I got pregnant at age 39 (didn’t even realize I was pregnant until six or seven weeks in!). My child appeared “normal” but she was not. She had Asperger’s Syndrome (in 1987 no one knew what this was) and, as she entered her teens, she suffered onset of schizophrenia and serious bipolar disorder and took her life at age 23. SHOULD I HAVE ABORTED HER? God prepared me to mother this child with a lifetime of struggle and effort to grow personally and spiritually. With any other mother, she would have suffered a horrible childhood. With me, she had a glorious childhood. I lost her to this devastating combination of illness but God foresaw that (even though I refuse to believe He ordained it) and gave me the strength, courage, love and selflessness needed to parent this fragile, beautiful soul. If you conceive after age 40, is it because you “got lucky”? Is that what you think Human conception is, a lottery? I live every day with the horror of seeing my brilliant, beautiful child slowly disappear into an illness so complex that there wasn’t time to even search for any combination of medication to deal with it. He answered my prayer: He gave me a child to raise. Life and death are not in our hands: the conception of life is not in our hands. If we think it is, then we don’t believe in God.

Excellent post

 

[Xantippe]

Povero said:

“the conception of life is not in our hands. If we think it is, then we don’t believe in God.”

It kind of is, though. If we don’t have sex, we won’t conceive.

 

[bitterhope]

I guess if determining when you ovulate is proving a problem, I sympathise. I would have thought getting pregnant on peak + 4 is not possible, which suggests peak was not peak!

No, I don’t consider much impossible when it comes to getting pregnant. I got pregnant with one of mine on day 26 of a 29 day cycle. I had ovulated on day 15 (confirmed with clear blue easy monitor!) and I know that it had to have been either day 26 or 27. My husband was gone for three months and that is when he got home. A few years later I had a set of bit girl twins so my assumption is that I ovulated twice that month as well. I’ve had OBs tell me that it is impossible, but I can assure you it is not. As I sId before, NFP does not work for me. There is no way to make it work for me even though my cycles are like clockwork–29 days starting 6 weeks after childbirth despite breastfeeding. I got pregnant twice on “safe days,” but I had certainly never thought for a second I would get pregnant on day 26 or 27. That never entered my mind for a second. That is why I abandoned NFP. There is no way that I could make it work for me, combined with my NFP instructor accusing me of adultery. No, never going through that again. My current OB asked me about NFP (he’s Catholic and NFP friendly) and I brought my old charts in to him. He flat out told me he saw no way of making it work for me either. Our current parish as well as the last one offer NFP classes two Saturdays a month. Our current pastor hands out NFP books to all married and engaged couples. They all try to convince me to start using NFP, and I just smile and thank them. I’m not about to go through another instructor (which would be my third) try to tell me I’m either untruthful or unfaithful because my conception dates don’t line up with the charting, or listen to someone tell me that it’s impossible to get pregnant while ecologically breastfeeding–including my twins–so I must not be following all the standards. So yeah, it is more than possible she got pregnant on peak +4. Not all of us ladies have textbook bodies that do perform in the ways the experts say they should. The best thing for those if us that are super fertile to do is bend our will to God’s will and embrace your fertility as the gift from God that it is. So many women pray for fertility like ours, and we try so hard to run from it. I understand being tired of diapers and wanting old body and life back, but God chose us for this gift for some reason. I do understand…I’ve been pregnant, nursing, or both since I was 18 years old, and I have soon to be 9 children (or 10 if it’s twins again). My oldest son is almost 14, so you can do the math about my age. My kids are all stubborn and strong willed so I get having discipline issues. My husband a home more now, but during the early years I was basically a single mom. He was gone repeatedly, often for 12+ months. I understand lonely. We move every 2 years so I understand not having friends. I’m probably going to end up with more than my grandmother (she had 16) if I stay fertile until I’m 53 like my mom. It no longer scares me or upsets me that motherhood is hard. I got over that. I had to. It was either accept that this is the life God hand picked for me, or I had to get on some form of birth control or get my tubes tied. As hard as Earth is, I want to make it into Heaven so that I can find comfort and rest. And you know, simply be submitting to God, I have found peace and joy here on earth, even in the darkest if times.

 

[mommamaree]

No, I don’t consider much impossible when it comes to getting pregnant. I got pregnant with one of mine on day 26 of a 29 day cycle. I had ovulated on day 15 (confirmed with clear blue easy monitor!) and I know that it had to have been either day 26 or 27. My husband was gone for three months and that is when he got home. A few years later I had a set of bit girl twins so my assumption is that I ovulated twice that month as well. I’ve had OBs tell me that it is impossible, but I can assure you it is not. As I sId before, NFP does not work for me. There is no way to make it work for me even though my cycles are like clockwork–29 days starting 6 weeks after childbirth despite breastfeeding. I got pregnant twice on “safe days,” but I had certainly never thought for a second I would get pregnant on day 26 or 27. That never entered my mind for a second. That is why I abandoned NFP. There is no way that I could make it work for me, combined with my NFP instructor accusing me of adultery. No, never going through that again. My current OB asked me about NFP (he’s Catholic and NFP friendly) and I brought my old charts in to him. He flat out told me he saw no way of making it work for me either. Our current parish as well as the last one offer NFP classes two Saturdays a month. Our current pastor hands out NFP books to all married and engaged couples. They all try to convince me to start using NFP, and I just smile and thank them. I’m not about to go through another instructor (which would be my third) try to tell me I’m either untruthful or unfaithful because my conception dates don’t line up with the charting, or listen to someone tell me that it’s impossible to get pregnant while ecologically breastfeeding–including my twins–so I must not be following all the standards. So yeah, it is more than possible she got pregnant on peak +4. Not all of us ladies have textbook bodies that do perform in the ways the experts say they should. The best thing for those if us that are super fertile to do is bend our will to God’s will and embrace your fertility as the gift from God that it is. So many women pray for fertility like ours, and we try so hard to run from it. I understand being tired of diapers and wanting old body and life back, but God chose us for this gift for some reason. I do understand…I’ve been pregnant, nursing, or both since I was 18 years old, and I have soon to be 9 children (or 10 if it’s twins again). My oldest son is almost 14, so you can do the math about my age. My kids are all stubborn and strong willed so I get having discipline issues. My husband a home more now, but during the early years I was basically a single mom. He was gone repeatedly, often for 12+ months. I understand lonely. We move every 2 years so I understand not having friends. I’m probably going to end up with more than my grandmother (she had 16) if I stay fertile until I’m 53 like my mom. It no longer scares me or upsets me that motherhood is hard. I got over that. I had to. It was either accept that this is the life God hand picked for me, or I had to get on some form of birth control or get my tubes tied. As hard as Earth is, I want to make it into Heaven so that I can find comfort and rest. And you know, simply be submitting to God, I have found peace and joy here on earth, even in the darkest if times.

Thank you for such a beautiful post. I struggle a lot right now emotionally with the fact that I am also very fertile, and I am very tired and worn out right now. It helps to see things from your perspective.

 

[Galbin]

I got pregnant at age 39 (didn’t even realize I was pregnant until six or seven weeks in!). My child appeared “normal” but she was not. She had Asperger’s Syndrome (in 1987 no one knew what this was) and, as she entered her teens, she suffered onset of schizophrenia and serious bipolar disorder and took her life at age 23. SHOULD I HAVE ABORTED HER? God prepared me to mother this child with a lifetime of struggle and effort to grow personally and spiritually. With any other mother, she would have suffered a horrible childhood. With me, she had a glorious childhood. I lost her to this devastating combination of illness but God foresaw that (even though I refuse to believe He ordained it) and gave me the strength, courage, love and selflessness needed to parent this fragile, beautiful soul. If you conceive after age 40, is it because you “got lucky”? Is that what you think Human conception is, a lottery? I live every day with the horror of seeing my brilliant, beautiful child slowly disappear into an illness so complex that there wasn’t time to even search for any combination of medication to deal with it. He answered my prayer: He gave me a child to raise. Life and death are not in our hands: the conception of life is not in our hands. If we think it is, then we don’t believe in God.

I am so sorry for the loss of your beautiful daughter. May she RIP.

 

[bitterhope]

Thank you for such a beautiful post. I struggle a lot right now emotionally with the fact that I am also very fertile, and I am very tired and worn out right now. It helps to see things from your perspective.

Yes, it is a humongous struggle. Each day we must make the choice of how we choose to view life and our circumstances. You are not alone in your struggles. I can and does get better but we have to work at it. Pray constantly in your heart throughout the day, and when life gets to be too much, take a long shower and let yourself cry. It is normal and there is no shame in that. Pray, pray, and pray some more. Ask Jesus to hold your children close to him and ask Mary to hold you close to her. Today is the Feast of St. Joseph the Worker. It’s always good to ask him to lead our husbands.

Hang in there!!!
From a mom that has been there