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JohnWilliams
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Didn’t the Jews write them? And didn’t the Jews exclude them?
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porkscratchings
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…and non-mathematicians. Numbers can be made to mean anything u want it to mean, provided u ignore the fundementals of mathematics - the requirement of something true to be based on specifics and not something than can equally occur thru chance. This is mathematical ‘proof’.
But if we throw in randomness and chance - the calculations used in apocalytic books do not point to anything significant anymore than me randomly picking a page or letters off a page and stringing a meaning to it.
This is why the Bible Code (which claims the bible has hidden codes predicting future events) - looks impressive until u use the same Bible code technique on a book selected at ramdom (let’s say the Kama Sutra) and be capable of finding equally significant strings of text that seem to suggest future past events. In fact u can find the same things in ANY book u choose to apply the Bible code theory - this blows the Bible Code’s claim to be able to reveal apocalytic messages in the Bible.
In maths terms, for something to be proven, the result obtained must be more likely than chance. Apocalytic theories do not impress mathematicians for this reason.
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JohnWilliams
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Was it me who chopped it off? The reference to 70 weeks was left in the first verse of the passage that I quoted. In the successive verses the Lord then went on to build a problem and divided these 70 “weeks” or sevens. If He had left it at the first sentence I would see your point. So who is looking for a pre determined outcome, by ignoring the manner in which these problems were presented, within the 70 weeks?
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JohnWilliams
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Let’s start with this one. What mathematical fundamental was ignored in this problem?
1948 - 1260 = 688
The problems in the OP are a few of those presented to us in scripture. We can choose to ignore them if we believe that is how the Lord leads.
I believe that prophecy was offered to prove the truth of God’s Holy Word after the prophecy has been fulfilled.
I believe these problems were presented to support fulfilled prophecy.
The Bible code, or other math tricks, are not about the mathematical problems that would seem to be, or may be, assigned to us by scripture.
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porkscratchings
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U didn’t understand what I posted earlier did u? So what makes u so sure u’ve got all the numbers worked out?
But how do u know this is how the Lord leads?Or do each of u decide for himself?
But unless u can prove ur claims to everyone else – how do u expect anyone to believe as u do?
If the calculations which u claim to demonstrate prophecy can equally throw up the similar conclusions in any passage I pick – this shows the bible claims to prophecy to be no better than any other book. Therefore, there is no prophecy to speak of. For prophecy to be true – its claims must be unique and more likely than chance, and the working out (in terms of maths) must not be replicable, nor equally likely to occur elsewhere. For example prophecy predicting rain is not impressive as rain is likely to occur normally. Also if calculations claim to predict future events, a mathematician should NOT be able to use the same calculations in another text and be able to turn up similar predictions, or equally likely predictions. That would be like predicting rain as likely to occur on Wednesday, Thursday on any given month. This makes prophecy no more accurate than guesswork.
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JohnWilliams
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I clearly understood it enough to ask you a question regarding your premise that you had to dodge, because it was a false premise.
I believe that each of use travels down our own path through our own process of sanctification, and are used by the Lord along our way as He chooses.
I posted this thread to encourage those who are interested to read a free book/Bible study. What they believe is up to them, as the Lord leads.
I fully understand that not one person in a thousand will read past a point, where anything they are reading conflicts with their doctrine. Indeed false doctrine would seem to be the stuff of the second chapter of Revelation, and perhaps nicolaitionism becomes a growing problem as a Church grows.
Sorry I don’t understand what you wrote. The mathematical principles are applied uniformally to other passages calculated as shown above, with the same result.
You are not too clear again. But if this is a reference to some “Bible code” I couldn’t agree with you more, and it would seem to demonstrate that you missed the whole subject of the OP. Did you read the problems?
If you believe that these 7 problems somehow conspire to combine as one big “chance”, or compounded mathematical accident, you must have missed the link that calculates the odds of a single element, of a single one of the problems, coming out even close. What this thread shows is 7 problems that work out - using a uniform method - to arrive at historically significant dates, that also work out textually, and do it over spans of time of 1260 years, 42 months of years, and even 1335 years.
And this thread has shown that this isn’t about PREDICTING anything. Nor is it about some “Bible code” which increasingly seems to be the core of your misunderstanding.
If you had read the problems you would understand that it has nothing to do with predicting future events. But then perhaps not having read the problems may be why you dodged my first question regarding your false premise.
You would seem to be so stuck in the “Bible code” mode that it is hard for me to imagine you read the OP.
Further, the method of calculation would necessarily need to be able to be repeated, and used uniformaly throughout scripture, for the method to have value. Again this is not about prediction, but about the math helping to reinforce the FULFILLED prophecy.
Your rain discussion is another obvious non-starter. Why not begin by reinforcing your false premise of the prior post, instead of trying to pile on another?
That having been your suggestion that: “Numbers can be made to mean anything u want it to mean, provided u ignore the fundementals of mathematics”
and explain your premise in the context of the problem that I offered, specifically: "Let’s start with this one. What mathematical fundamental was ignored in this problem?
1948 - 1260 = 688 "
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porkscratchings
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Not had to dodge - there’s no false premise in what i’ve posted. That was why i asked if u did understand. U then lie that u did and ask a q that u think is infallible. The operation, being subtraction, might be correct to give the answer - but math depends not just on the operation but on the actual figures themselves. No accountant would be so bold as to suggest as a long as the subtraction is done properly, it doesn’t matter what numbers are used.
How do u know that 1948 - 1260 = 688 is true first of all. 2ndly how do u know the first 2 figures are correct as they are? 3rdly that the calculation involves subtraction and not another method.
Once u’ve done that - u have to prove it so that no matter how anyone looked at the problem, ur proof will demonstrate without any doubt that it is true.
That is the fundamentals of mathematics.
In claiming math to be on side of prophecy, many folks done the slog of taking actual events and use the dates to invent a set of calculations that seems to suggest the hand of God. When one set of calcs don’t work, they do another and another. It’s not hard to imagine over time that someone, somewhere will come up with a theory backed by an elaborate set of calculations.
But unless they can show the link betw the bible and their pick of world history to be more than guesswork on their part, they haven’t proven anything. Proof is required in mathematics. That is my point.
the dodge is not a dodge but contempt for an attack that’s unworthy of response due to its insignificance to the debate.
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