Mathew 23

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Chapters 8 & 9 especilly 9 call no one on earth your father, you have but one father in heaven.

But, yet we call our priest Father, Please explain this i am confussed.

 

[Tantum_ergo]

Well, you call your own father father, don’t you? And Jesus referred to “Father Abraham” in His parable about Lazarus and the rich man. St. Paul, also, referred to himself as 'father" in his epistles.

So it looks like Jesus didn’t mean that we were **never **to use the word “father.” Interestingly enough, few people bother to continue on with the Scripture passage as it continues, “and call no one on earth your teacher”. . . and no one gets all upset that we call people 'teacher" now do they?

Jesus means, of course, that we are not to put ‘mere men’ and their teachings or authority above that of God. However, He does not mean that we cannot use the word “father” or the word "teacher’ ever again unless we use them specifically and only for God --otherwise Jesus would be guilty of error calling Abraham “father” and Paul would be guilty of error calling himself a ‘father’ to those whom he taught.

Did you know that historically speaking in the early days many protestants addressed their minister as “father”? Not just Catholics. . .they also addressed their ministers as ‘teacher’ and "master’ (both of which, if you held them to the same interpretation as the “father’ prohibition’, since BOTH are likewise mentioned in the same way in scripture, would be equally 'forbidden.”)

Finally, a search here at Catholic Answers Library finds that there is a tract entitled “Call No Man Father?” which lists the above and even more. As a suggestion, it’s always a good idea to search the library to see if it answers your question first. If it doesn’t, then you can make your question topic more specialized. God bless.

 

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Chapters 8 & 9 especilly 9 call no one on earth your father, you have but one father in heaven.

But, yet we call our priest Father, Please explain this i am confussed.

I have heard this argued over and over, and I don’t fully agree with the sides of the argument that I have heard. The scriptures say do not tempt God, but I think catholics like to walk on the wild side…

 

[PAboy57]

“What Jesus was forbidding was the improper use of the word “father.” At the time of Christ, fellow Jews had the practice of giving the title “father” to a founder of a school of thought for rabbinical teaching, and rival traditions often fought with each other based on who followed which “father.” Christ condemned the misuse of the word “father” in that context, but He did not forbid its analogous use. The Pharisees would enjoy the privileges and the honor of being considered the “fathers” of Israel, but they did not act like spiritual fathers, who loved and cared for their spiritual children, when they misused their authority for personal aggrandizement. That abuse of fatherhood is what was being condemned.” Courtesy of The Catholicism Answer Book by Rev John Trigilio Jr and Rev Kenneth Brighenti.

This is a good book about our faith and provides many answers to frequently asked questions. It has helped me a bunch. Take care.

 

[teachccd]

I have heard this argued over and over, and I don’t fully agree with the sides of the argument that I have heard. The scriptures say do not tempt God, but I think catholics like to walk on the wild side…

So you just proved that Paul was Catholic. He writes in** 1 Corinthians 4:14-16**;

**14I do not write these things to shame you, but to admonish you as my beloved children. **

**15For if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you would not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. ****16Therefore I exhort you, be imitators of me. **

Pretty wild, that Paul … teachccd

 

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So you just proved that Paul was Catholic. He writes in** 1 Corinthians 4:14-16**;

**14I do not write these things to shame you, but to admonish you as my beloved children. **

**15For if you were to have countless tutors in Christ, yet you would not have many fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel. ****16Therefore I exhort you, be imitators of me. **

Pretty wild, that Paul … teachccd

Look Paul probably had demons, after being a serial killer. Nobody cast his demons out. The Gospel is that we can become children of the most high. Let demons utter curses based on their so called gospels. Where ever he is, it must be hot…

 

[puzzleannie]

Chapters 8 & 9 especilly 9 call no one on earth your father, you have but one father in heaven.

But, yet we call our priest Father, Please explain this i am confussed.

what do you call your dad?

 

[Luke65]

Look Paul probably had demons, after being a serial killer. Nobody cast his demons out. The Gospel is that we can become children of the most high. Let demons utter curses based on their so called gospels. Where ever he is, it must be hot…

“Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings; yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand.” (2 Peter 2:11-12)

 

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“Bold and arrogant, these men are not afraid to slander celestial beings; yet even angels, although they are stronger and more powerful, do not bring slanderous accusations against such beings in the presence of the Lord. But these men blaspheme in matters they do not understand.” (2 Peter 2:11-12)

Jesus said that you can utter any blasphemy agaist him and be forgiven. Now do you love him enough to give him some trouble?

 

[geometer]

It is not christlike to pretend to be someones father. Jesus never did that, and his entire life and mission was to inspire people to be reborn, and know the world again as the offspring of God, his god and your god his father and your father…

Agnosticism is bad, to know is good…

 

[Benadam]

Jesus said He wouldn’t leave us orphans. He wasn’t excluding any select group. All of us sinners are orphans without God. So no one can say, like Jesus, something like this; You have heard…But I say. Today the equivelent would be; the Church has taught…But I say…No individual person has that role on earth except Jesus. Only Jesus had divine authority originating on earth from Himself. Only Jesus had the authority to express Truth ‘sola scriptura’.

 

[Luke65]

Jesus said that you can utter any blasphemy agaist him and be forgiven. Now do you love him enough to give him some trouble?

When you confess your sin - slandering St. Paul - Jesus will forgive you.

 

[Luke65]

It is not christlike to pretend to be someones father. Jesus never did that, and his entire life and mission was to inspire people to be reborn, and know the world again as the offspring of God, his god and your god his father and your father…

Agnosticism is bad, to know is good…

scripturecatholic.com/the_priesthood.html

I. The Elders of the Church are Called “Fathers” and the Faithful “Children”

Matt. 23:9 - Jesus says, “call no man father.” But Protestants use this verse in an attempt to prove that it is wrong for Catholics to call priests “father.” This is an example of “eisegesis” (imposing one’s views upon a passage) as opposed to “exegesis” (drawing out the meaning of the passage from its context). In this verse, Jesus was discouraging His followers from elevating the scribes and Pharisees to the titles of “fathers” and “rabbis” because they were hypocrites. Jesus warns us not to elevate anyone to the level of our heavenly Father.

Matt. 23:8 – in this teaching, Jesus also says not to call anyone teacher or rabbi as well. But don’t Protestants call their teachers “teacher?” What about this commandment of Jesus? When Protestants say “call no man father,” they must also argue that we cannot call any man teacher either.

Judges 17:10; 18:19 - priesthood and fatherhood have always been identified together. Fatherhood literally means “communicating one’s nature,” and just as biological fathers communicate their nature to their children, so do spiritual fathers communicate the nature of God to us, their children, through (hopefully) teaching and example.

Eph. 3:14-15 - every family in heaven and on earth is named from the “Father.” We are fathers in the Father.

Acts 7:2; 22:1,1 John 2:13 - elders of the Church are called “fathers.” Therefore, we should ask the question, "Why don’t Protestants call their pastors “father?”

1 Cor. 4:15 - Paul writes, “I became your father in Christ Jesus.”

1 Cor. 4:17 - Paul calls Bishop Timothy a beloved and faithful “child” in the Lord.

2 Cor. 12:14 - Paul describes his role as parent over his “children” the Corinthians.

Phil. 2:22 - Paul calls Timothy’s service to him as a son serves a “father.”

1 Thess. 2:11- Paul compares the Church elders’ ministry to the people like a father with his children.

1 Tim. 1:2,18; 2 Tim. 1:2-3 - Paul calls Timothy his true “child” in the faith and his son.

Titus 1:4 - Paul calls Titus his true “child” in a common faith. Priests are our spiritual fathers in the family of God.

Philemon 10 - Paul says he has become the “father” of Onesimus.

Heb. 12:7,9 - emphasizes our earthly “fathers.” But these are not just biological but also spiritual (the priests of the Church).

1 Peter 5:13 - Peter refers to himself as father by calling Mark his “son.”

1 John 2:1,13,14 - John calls the elders of the Church “fathers.”

1 John 2:1,18,28; 3:18; 5:21; 3 John 4 - John calls members of the Church “children.”

1 Macc. 2:65 - Mattathias the priest tells his sons that Simeon will be their “father.”

 

[johns58w]

Well, you call your own father father, don’t you? And Jesus referred to “Father Abraham” in His parable about Lazarus and the rich man. St. Paul, also, referred to himself as 'father" in his epistles.

So it looks like Jesus didn’t mean that we were **never **to use the word “father.” Interestingly enough, few people bother to continue on with the Scripture passage as it continues, “and call no one on earth your teacher”. . . and no one gets all upset that we call people 'teacher" now do they?

Jesus means, of course, that we are not to put ‘mere men’ and their teachings or authority above that of God. However, He does not mean that we cannot use the word “father” or the word "teacher’ ever again unless we use them specifically and only for God --otherwise Jesus would be guilty of error calling Abraham “father” and Paul would be guilty of error calling himself a ‘father’ to those whom he taught.

Did you know that historically speaking in the early days many protestants addressed their minister as “father”? Not just Catholics. . .they also addressed their ministers as ‘teacher’ and "master’ (both of which, if you held them to the same interpretation as the “father’ prohibition’, since BOTH are likewise mentioned in the same way in scripture, would be equally 'forbidden.”)

Finally, a search here at Catholic Answers Library finds that there is a tract entitled “Call No Man Father?” which lists the above and even more. As a suggestion, it’s always a good idea to search the library to see if it answers your question first. If it doesn’t, then you can make your question topic more specialized. God bless.

Tantum Ergo, thank you on your response on Matthew 23 about “Call no man Father”. I too learned from Scott Hahn (St. Paul Center Biblical Theology) and Father Mitch Pacwa (EWTN Network) about scripture verses being taking out of context of the story,letter or message can change its meaning many times over. For example: “I did not say you stole that” already has five different meanings being there is not enough sufficient context about who,what,where,when,why and/or how the sentence relates to. I am reading from The Holy Bible, Revised Standard Version, Second Catholic Edition (Ignatius Press) revised according to Liturigam Authenticam, 2002. What is written on Matthew 23 about Jesus Denounces the Hypocrosy of the Scribes and Pharisees which goes from verse 1 to verse 29. If Catholic Magisterial teaching only focused on verse 9 (And call no man your father on earth, for you have one Father, who is in heaven +) it might mean what is presented, but there is a footnote, + 23:9: i.e., " Do not use the title without reference to God’s universal Fatherhood." He cannot mean that the title is never to be used by a son to his father. But if this is the only verse used, then it is used as a"prooftext" to state an individual claim or opinion, which is why there are over 20,000 different Christian denominations today. Catholic Magisterial teaching brings more in context to the whole chapter 23 of what verse 9 means.Other footnotes throughout Matthew 23 relate to other New Testament as well as Old Testament scriptural readings. Once again if read under Catholic Church Magisterial teaching , Sacred Tradition and Sacred Scripture.

 

[JRKH]

It seems to me that Jesus in this passage is addresing the pharisees and just a couple of verses later begins to give them “what for” because of their poor example. He is warning the disciples not to seek to be teachers (Rabbi) in the verse preceeding and following the verse about calling someone father.
I also seem to recall, though I can’t find the passage, that Jesus told the Jews not to rely on their Heritage for salvation. “God could raise up children of Abraham from these stones…” or words to that effect.

So it seems to me that Jesus is addressing this issue of heritage and teaching. That these things come from God and not from some natural “birthright.”

My 2c worth

Peace
James

 

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scripturecatholic.com/the_priesthood.html

I. The Elders of the Church are Called “Fathers” and the Faithful “Children”

Matt. 23:9 - Jesus says, “call no man father.” But Protestants use this verse in an attempt to prove that it is wrong for Catholics to call priests “father.” This is an example of “eisegesis” (imposing one’s views upon a passage) as opposed to “exegesis” (drawing out the meaning of the passage from its context). In this verse, Jesus was discouraging His followers from elevating the scribes and Pharisees to the titles of “fathers” and “rabbis” because they were hypocrites. Jesus warns us not to elevate anyone to the level of our heavenly Father.

Matt. 23:8 – in this teaching, Jesus also says not to call anyone teacher or rabbi as well. But don’t Protestants call their teachers “teacher?” What about this commandment of Jesus? When Protestants say “call no man father,” they must also argue that we cannot call any man teacher either.

Judges 17:10; 18:19 - priesthood and fatherhood have always been identified together. Fatherhood literally means “communicating one’s nature,” and just as biological fathers communicate their nature to their children, so do spiritual fathers communicate the nature of God to us, their children, through (hopefully) teaching and example.

Eph. 3:14-15 - every family in heaven and on earth is named from the “Father.” We are fathers in the Father.

Acts 7:2; 22:1,1 John 2:13 - elders of the Church are called “fathers.” Therefore, we should ask the question, "Why don’t Protestants call their pastors “father?”

1 Cor. 4:15 - Paul writes, “I became your father in Christ Jesus.”

1 Cor. 4:17 - Paul calls Bishop Timothy a beloved and faithful “child” in the Lord.

2 Cor. 12:14 - Paul describes his role as parent over his “children” the Corinthians.

Phil. 2:22 - Paul calls Timothy’s service to him as a son serves a “father.”

1 Thess. 2:11- Paul compares the Church elders’ ministry to the people like a father with his children.

1 Tim. 1:2,18; 2 Tim. 1:2-3 - Paul calls Timothy his true “child” in the faith and his son.

Titus 1:4 - Paul calls Titus his true “child” in a common faith. Priests are our spiritual fathers in the family of God.

Philemon 10 - Paul says he has become the “father” of Onesimus.

Heb. 12:7,9 - emphasizes our earthly “fathers.” But these are not just biological but also spiritual (the priests of the Church).

1 Peter 5:13 - Peter refers to himself as father by calling Mark his “son.”

1 John 2:1,13,14 - John calls the elders of the Church “fathers.”

1 John 2:1,18,28; 3:18; 5:21; 3 John 4 - John calls members of the Church “children.”

1 Macc. 2:65 - Mattathias the priest tells his sons that Simeon will be their “father.”

Jesus never asked to be called father, they called him master at times but in the end he said that he had taught them everything and he was no longer master, but friend.

Everybody on earth knows that priests are called father.

I called my own father dad which is welch for father. But my dad was actually a father, Jesus wasn’t as far as we know, and most catholic priests are not fathers.

I do not have to argue about this issue, I know catholics will argue endlessly about this embarassment. But it is not mine, I am not pretending to be anyones father.

 

[Randy_Carson]

Chapters 8 & 9 especilly 9 call no one on earth your father, you have but one father in heaven.

But, yet we call our priest Father, Please explain this i am confussed.

Call No Man Your Father

Matthew 23:8-10
8"But you are not to be called ‘Rabbi,’ (Gr. rabbi) for you have only one Master (Gr. didaskalos, kathegetes) and you are all brothers. 9And do not call anyone on earth ‘father,’ (Gr. patera) for you have one Father (Gr. pater), and he is in heaven. 10Nor are you to be called ‘teacher,’ (Gr. kathegetai) for you have one Teacher (Gr. kathegetes), the Christ.” (NIV)

Matthew 23:8-10
8”But be not ye called Rabbi (Gr. rabbi): for one is your Master (Gr. didaskalos, kathegetes), even Christ; and all ye are brethren. 9And call no man your father (Gr. patera) upon the earth: for one is your Father (Gr. pater), which is in heaven. 10Neither be ye called masters (Gr. kathegetai) : for one is your Master (Gr. kathegetes), even Christ.” (KJV)

Based on the preceding passage, many non-Catholics claim that the Catholic Church violates the scriptural prohibition against calling anyone “father” since its priests are commonly called “father” and the pope is referred to as the “Holy Father.” Is this really what the Bible teaches? Let’s take a closer look at other verses to see whether this is really what the Bible tells us.

Jesus Violates This Command

Luke 16:24
24So he called to him, “Father (Gr. pater) Abraham, have pity on me and send Lazarus to dip the tip of his finger in water and cool my tongue, because I am in agony in this fire.”

Jesus tells a parable in which He has one of the characters speak to “Father Abraham” which would obviously be a bad example for His audience. Does Jesus contradict Himself?

Paul Violates This Command

Romans 4:1-18
1What then shall we say that Abraham, our forefather, discovered in this matter?

In this passage, Paul refers to Abraham as a spiritual father eight times. This is a terrible precedent to establish if Jesus has prohibited us from using the term “father.”

1 Corinthians 4:14-15
14I am not writing this to shame you, but to warn you, as my dear children. 15Even though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many fathers (Gr. pateras), for in Christ Jesus I became your father through the gospel.

In this passage, Paul refers to himself as the spiritual father of the Corinthians. This is a terrible precedent to establish if Jesus has prohibited us from using the term “father.”

Ephesians 4:11-13
11It was he who gave some to be apostles, some to be prophets, some to be evangelists, and some to be pastors and teachers (Gr. didaskalovs), 12to prepare God’s people for works of service, so that the body of Christ may be built up 13until we all reach unity in the faith and in the knowledge of the Son of God and become mature, attaining to the whole measure of the fullness of Christ.

Paul, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, says that God has established some people as “teachers” in the Church; this appears to be a direct violation of Jesus’ prohibition against calling anyone “teacher”. Does God contradict Himself?

James Violates This Command

James 3:1
1Not many of you should presume to be teachers (Gr. didaskaloi), my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly.

James, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, says that not many believers should presume to be “teachers.” This implies that a few (though not many) should and would rightfully have that position. Does God contradict Himself?

James 2:21
21Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar?

James, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit, refers to the spiritual fatherhood of Abraham. This is a terrible precedent to establish if Jesus has prohibited us from using the term “father.”

Stephen Violates This Command

Acts 7:2
2To this he replied: "Brothers and fathers, listen to me!

The following article is also helpful:

Call No Man “Father”?
catholic.com/library/Call_No_Man_Father.asp

 

[Randy_Carson]

Look Paul probably had demons, after being a serial killer. Nobody cast his demons out. The Gospel is that we can become children of the most high. Let demons utter curses based on their so called gospels. Where ever he is, it must be hot…

Could you please provide the verses which demonstrate that Paul was a “serial killer”?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Randy_Carson]

I have heard this argued over and over, and I don’t fully agree with the sides of the argument that I have heard. The scriptures say do not tempt God, but I think catholics like to walk on the wild side…

Okay…try this:

Call No Man Father – Another View
Originally posted by Pax in the Catholic Answers Forum

In Jesus time, there were a number of Jewish sects: the Pharisees, Sadducees, Essenes, and Zealots.

These sects had schools or houses of teaching within them. Within the Pharisees there were two famous rival houses.
They were the House of Shammai and the House of Hillel. The individuals that these houses were named after were considered the “father” of the house.

Jesus warns the apostles not to be fathers to “separate” houses—for there is but one house of the Lord. Jesus also says to call no man “teacher” or “master.” This is interesting because the Apostle Paul was taught by Gamaliel (cf. Acts 22:3), a Pharisee from the House of Hillel. Gamaliel, the grandson of Hillel, was known as an elder and had the title of “Rabban” which means “Our Master.” This title explains why Jesus also said call no one “master”; there is but one house and one master of all. Jesus prayed for unity (cf. John 17) and did not want the apostles to set up separate houses or schools of thought.

This is clearly expressed in Paul’s complaint in 1 Corinthians 1:10-15 when he describes how some are arguing their superiority after being baptized by, and belonging to, Paul or Apollos, or Cephas, etc. Paul goes on elsewhere to warn against factions and divisions and stresses the importance of one mind and unity of doctrine.

The meaning of “call no man father, teacher, or master” concerns unity and consistency of doctrine and has nothing to do with the commonly used references that are seen elsewhere in scripture or everyday use.

 

[geometer]

The meaning of “call no man father, teacher, or master” concerns unity and consistency of doctrine and has nothing to do with the commonly used references that are seen elsewhere in scripture or everyday use.

That was tourism.

Jesus was completely sincere when he said that you have one father in heaven. And the good news is that even though you don’t know, you can find out…