Matt 16:18 - I want more insight

[NotWorthy]

I hope this thread is not totally dead. I saw a prophecy in 1st Samuel chapter 2:35

I will choose a faithful priest who shall do what I have in heart and mind. I will establish a lasting house for him which shall function in the presence of my anointed forever*. *

Now, who fulfills this prophecy? I’ll give you a hint - Catholics already know this answer.

*The faithful priest who rules a “lasting or eternal house” in the presence of God’s Anointed One is Christ’s Vicar, the Pope.

 

[mdcpensive1]

The concept of Church built upon Peter is something necessary when we consider that the New Jerusalem or the Kingdom of God has both a temporal and eternal dimension that will always be in existence until the end of time in which Christ hands over the temporal part to the Father to complete salvation. The Church is has the militant, which exists in time, the Church in waiting which is being made holy, and the Church Triumphant which is with the Father already. The temporal Church has a leader that serves the people and protects the truth which Christ entrusts to it. Christ in turn swears that the gates of Hell will not prevail against it meaning that those who oppose the Church will not defeat it or destroy it. The temporal Church has a leader called the pope who is a successor of Peter. This is the meaning of handing on of the keys of the Kingdom (IS 22). As you recall, when Jesus and Peter were together and someone asked Jesus about the temple tax, a fish they found had a coin that paid the tax for BOTH Jesus and Peter showing the relationship of both to the Church.

I hope this helps you LT and anyone else who is reading this thread.
Mdcpensive

 

[Verisimilitude]

However, simply taken on its own, this verse does not explicitly validate our belief. One could logically assert the church refers to all Christianity and the protection against the gates of hell simply meant Christianity would always survive and not be totally overcome by evil or other religions. Catholic scholars certainly must have had much deeper insight into this verse to affirm their interpretation of it. I would like some insight into that deeper level of study.

Thanks!
LT

Here’s what mkes sense to me. In the same maner of relationship that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are, is to Christ, Peter, and the Church. I think what Christ established directly through Peter, and that the the Truth of his personal knowledge in Christ was a promise that the great faith of Peter will protect the Church though all the powers of hell assail Her. (Priest sex scandal, WW2…) There are some dark periods and real evil has threatened Her, but the Spirit is stronger. Our faith is the Church. Peter had his trials, so might his spirit; but It will prevail.

I had the my own issues with Mat 16:18. Here are a couple links to my posts via other related threads I hope it helps. It did for me!

John 3:12 If I have told you earthly things and you do not believe, how will you believe if I tell you heavenly things?

I think just because we do believe, does not neccesarily mean we always fully understand the heavenly things.

The keys of the kingdom of heaven might indicate an analogous blessing that God gave Adam and Eve but with respect to the Church:

28 God blessed them and said to them, “Be fruitful and increase in number; fill the earth and subdue it. Rule over the fish in the sea and the birds in the sky and over every living creature that moves on the ground.”

 

[Gusto]

Something I saw on EWTN the other night was a quote from Monsignor W Croke Robinson (as presented in the segment The Church in Time by Fr Charles Connor?).

*Gods revelation will be infallible.

The only Church that claims to interpret Gods Word infallibly is the Catholic Church.*

 

[SFLCatholic]

I hope this thread is not totally dead. I saw a prophecy in 1st Samuel chapter 2:35
*
Now, who fulfills this prophecy? I’ll give you a hint - Catholics already know this answer.

*The faithful priest who rules a “lasting or eternal house” in the presence of God’s Anointed One is Christ’s Vicar, the Pope.

Good one!

 

[rando78]

I think the Orthodox would vigorously dispute this characterization. Since there was only one church the first 10 centuries, they also trace their identity back through apostolic succession. In many ways, the Orthodox are actually “older” since the Eastern churches were established before anyone went to Rome.

That brings up a good point since I believe the only disagreement was over the authority of the Pope vs. the Patriarch of the Orthodox Church. Other than that, the beliefs of the two churches are very much alike. So that raises a good queston about the entire 1500 aprox. years before the Protestant Reformation. Matt 16:18 denies the possibility of the Church falling into false Christianity for this long. “And the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.”

 

[Janet_S]

That brings up a good point since I believe the only disagreement was over the authority of the Pope vs. the Patriarch of the Orthodox Church. Other than that, the beliefs of the two churches are very much alike. So that raises a good queston about the entire 1500 aprox. years before the Protestant Reformation. Matt 16:18 denies the possibility of the Church falling into false Christianity for this long. “And the gates of Hell shall not prevail against it.”

For anyone interested in the Orthodox church, I recommend you watch the Journey Home this week. It was aired tonight on EWTN and will be broadcast again on tomorrow at 10:00 a.m., Wednesday at 1:00 p.m., and Saturday at 11 p.m. The guest this week is Deacon Joseph Pasquella. He is a convert from Eastern Orthodox Christianity–he had been an Orthodox Deacon. He highly recommends the book Jesus, Peter, and the Keys:
amazon.com/Jesus-Peter-Keys-Scriptural-Handbook/dp/1882972546

 

[ltravis]

For anyone interested in the Orthodox church, I recommend you watch the Journey Home this week. It was aired tonight on EWTN and will be broadcast again on tomorrow at 10:00 a.m., Wednesday at 1:00 p.m., and Saturday at 11 p.m. The guest this week is Deacon Joseph Pasquella. He is a convert from Eastern Orthodox Christianity–he had been an Orthodox Deacon. He highly recommends the book Jesus, Peter, and the Keys:
amazon.com/Jesus-Peter-Keys-Scriptural-Handbook/dp/1882972546

Great Janet, thanks! I will keep an eye on EWTN.com so I can grab the audio once they archive it.

-LT