Matthew 23:34 – Deep Bible Study

[paarsurrey]

Hi

I quote from :Matthew 23:34

“34Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.”

I jot down some points for understanding the above verse:

1. Jesus is addressing a gathering of Jewish clergy
2. Jesus is enumerating the list of crimes they have indulged in
3. Jesus is talking in present “ I am sending ”
4. Jesus was not talking in past tense, he did not say “I had sent” or “I had been sending”
5. Since Jesus is addressing many people who are present before him, we cannot take any meaning which is in abstraction i.e. which the people present are not following in understanding
6. So to me Jesus was either talking in present tense or in near future.

Now after reading the above verse; how one figures answer of the following questions :

1. How many Prophets did Jesus sent to the Jewish Clergy in his life span from that time he was addressing the Jewish clergy to the time he last departed from Galilee ;
2. who were killed by the Jews Clergy?
3. who were crucified by the Jews Clergy?
4. who were flogged by Jews Clergy in their synagogues?
5. How many were pursued from town to town by the Jews Clergy?

Thanks

 

[wardrandolph]

hello,You raise some interesting questions.I dont have all the answers but here are some facts.Jesus is talking past,present and future.[the mystery of the Holy Trinity].Look at Mk.13.This is not an indictment against the Jewish people as a Whole but is an indictment against “some” Jewish teachers and Leaders who reject the fact that Jesus is the Christ.As you study this out we realise that the Holy Scriptures are also refering to the Roman Empire{A.D.70] and the future Anti Christ at the end of time.May the Lord help us all to understand .Come let us reason together Is.1:18

 

[paarsurrey]

hello,You raise some interesting questions.I dont have all the answers but here are some facts.Jesus is talking past,present and future.[the mystery of the Holy Trinity].Look at Mk.13.This is not an indictment against the Jewish people as a Whole but is an indictment against “some” Jewish teachers and Leaders who reject the fact that Jesus is the Christ.As you study this out we realise that the Holy Scriptures are also refering to the Roman Empire{A.D.70] and the future Anti Christ at the end of time.May the Lord help us all to understand .Come let us reason together Is.1:18

Hi

No sir, it is an indictment of Jews , Jesus is addressing the Jewish clergy and admonishing them of their evil deeds, and that if they don’t refrain from them, then they shall have to suffer the Wrath of GodAllahYHWH. Please read the whole chapter Matthew 23 and the Wrath is mentioned in the end of it. It does no belong to the far future ( end of times or latter days), and in fact it was fullfuilled as you have correctly observed refering to the Roman Empire{A.D.70] when Jerusalem was destroyed.

Thanks

There is only one Covenant.
The covenant has been the same, as first time it is mentioned in Bible with reference to Noah; and from Noah to date, nobody could change it; if at all one could confirm it or revive it or face the Wrath of GodAllahYHWH.

 

[wardrandolph]

Please read Ez.37.This is the restoration of Israel as a nation[1948 A.D.] These scriptures deal with future events.Da.7,Da.8,Da.9,Mt.23,Mt.24,Mt.25,2Thess.2,Rev.13,Rev.14,Rev.17 and Rev.18.I am not a Biblical expert but this I do know.Jesus the only Son of God was crusified,Died,and was Buried.On the third day He arose from the Dead.He assended to Heaven and is seated at the right Hand of the Father.He will come again to Judge the living and the dead.He paid the penalty for Your sins and Mine.He Loves You and Me.

 

[paarsurrey]

He will come again to Judge the living and the dead.He paid the penalty for Your sins and Mine.He Loves You and Me.

Hi

Jesus was not killed on Cross, he died a nautral and peaceful death among his (Jewish) Lost Tribes of House of Israel.

Jesus did not ascend to heaven, it is a misconception.

Thanks

St. Paul the Apostle spoke about Jesus killing on Cross in 1 Cor 15:
[17] If Christ has not been raised, your faith is futile and you are still in your sins.
[18] Then those also who have fallen asleep in Christ have perished. Unquote

Now, in my opinion, as you know that Jesus was not killed on Cross, so according to Paul, Catholic viewpoint is not proved; needs to be revised.

 

[wardrandolph]

You are intitled to believe as you wish.I know you believe that Jesus did not die on the cross and that He went searching for the lost tribes,and that the founder of your sect was the return of the Messiah[late 1800s].The Bible and Sacred Tradition “teach” that Jesus,the only Begotten Son of God did indeed die on the cross,was buried,decended to the dead,arose from the dead,ascended to the Father, will come again which the whole Earth will see at one time.His Death and Ressurection was wittnessed by many.Those are the “facts”.Here is another fact,Jesus and I both love You and your Muslim brothers,and the Jews,and the Greeks,and my fellow Americans,the Africans,the Mexicans,the Arabs,the Orientals and all People.Jn.3:16.

 

[paarsurrey]

Here is another fact,Jesus and I both love You and your Muslim brothers.

Hi

I do appreciate your love gesture inspite of the differences of our view point. I also love you and all Catholic brothers in humanity and friends. I love Jesus and Mary.

May GodAllahYHWH bless you all!

Thanks

 

[Dempsey1919]

Jesus was not killed on Cross, he died a nautral and peaceful death among his (Jewish) Lost Tribes of House of Israel.

There he goes again. Where is the PROOF! You keep writing these statements but you fail to provide ANY CREDIBLE evidence to support your views.

You have AVIODED ANSWERING ANY QUESTIONS that I, or others have asked.

All you want to do is post comments about your religion. You will not win any converts, for two reasons:

1. Islam is a false religion which is oppressive.
2. You don’t seem to be able to answer any questions. All you can do is cut and paste.

What is your purpose for being here. You don’t want to learn anything about Catholicism, or even Christianity in general. You don’t even want to enter into a dialogue with anyone who disagrees with you.

A few people have tried to engage you in debate but you sidestep any of the comments you can’t refute, and usually resort to changing the conversation.

If your aim is to win converts then I’m sorry, you’re failing miserably. Islam will never take hold in the West. To thrive, Islam needs widespread ignorance, which is why Christians are slaughtered in Islamic countries for Evangelisation.

Islam is false. You can’t accept historical facts because they prove Islam to be false.

Ishmael was never the favourite son of Abraham and Abraham was not ordered by God to sacrifice Ishmael. I think you’ll find that it was Issaic.

Christians do not worship Mary as a member of the Trinity and never have done.

Jesus did not predict the coming of Muhammad.

Muhammad is a child sex offender. ANY man who marries a six year old and consumates the marriage when they are nine is sex offender.

Jesus was crucified. There are non-christian accounts which prove this such as Josephus and Tacticus.

The Gospels were not tampered with. Historical evidence proves this to be true.

You’re wasting your time. Nobody is going to leave Christ for the religion of Muhammad - and we don’t have to threaten our fellow Christians with the death penalty to stop them.

 

[JFonseka]

Paarsurrey you are highly deceptive, I’ve noticed you’ve managed to avoid the Mohammed’s inconsistencies thread, either you actually genuinely missed it, or you are looking for refutements to those claims made.

But yet you want to do deep Bible studies to find inconsistences with the Bible to prove somehow that Jesus died in India or some other thing. What about the other thread where someone pointed out that muslims according to the Qu’ran should not be having friends of Jews or Christians or the 100’s of other things mentioned in the Quran that you should be doing, but you aren’t, like this:

*It is not permissible for a Muslim man or woman to take a male or female friend who is not a Muslim, because Allaah has forbidden us to love the kuffaar or take them as close friends and companions
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=69876&ln=eng
*

Montalban posted that, and I think several other users posted tons of other stuff, but you ignore that and hold ‘deep bible studies’

Aren’t you being friendly with us here? Is that because you want to convert us? That means your friendship comes with a price and it’s not unconditional. So you are indeed not trying to be a ‘true friend’ of ours, after all the Qu’ran states you shouldn’t be friends with us.

Praise be to Allaah.
Firstly:
Allaah has forbidden the believers to take the kaafireen (disbelievers) as friends, and He has issued a stern warning against doing that.
islamqa.com/index.php?ref=59879&ln=eng

 

[onenow1]

Hi

I quote from :Matthew 23:34

“34Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.”

Quote=OneNow1, The above verse smacks of the acts of the Apostles, especially of Pauls mission to round up Jews that became christian before his divine experience with Jesus.

Acts 9:1-2, But Saul, still breathing threats and murder against the disciples of the Lord, went to the high priest and asked him for letters to the synagogues at Damascus, so that if he found any belonging to the Way, men or women, he might bring them bound to Jerusalem.

After Pauls conversion:
Quote=OneNow1, Paul and his students were the wise men and prophets, sent out to teach and preach; certainly they were persecuted !

Peace, OneNow1 :coffeeread:

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi

Study of Revealed Books is appreciable, and deep study is even more appreciable and must be encouraged. I love it.

Thanks

 

[Valke2]

Hi

I quote from :Matthew 23:34

“34Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.”

I jot down some points for understanding the above verse:

1. Jesus is addressing a gathering of Jewish clergy
2. Jesus is enumerating the list of crimes they have indulged in
3. Jesus is talking in present “ I am sending ”
4. Jesus was not talking in past tense, he did not say “I had sent” or “I had been sending”
5. Since Jesus is addressing many people who are present before him, we cannot take any meaning which is in abstraction i.e. which the people present are not following in understanding
6. So to me Jesus was either talking in present tense or in near future.

Now after reading the above verse; how one figures answer of the following questions :

1. How many Prophets did Jesus sent to the Jewish Clergy in his life span from that time he was addressing the Jewish clergy to the time he last departed from Galilee ;
2. who were killed by the Jews Clergy?
3. who were crucified by the Jews Clergy?
4. who were flogged by Jews Clergy in their synagogues?
5. How many were pursued from town to town by the Jews Clergy?

Thanks

I’ve never heard of Jews crucifying anyone.

 

[paarsurrey]

I’ve never heard of Jews crucifying anyone.

Hi

In my opinion, this verse Matthew 23:34

“34Therefore I am sending you prophets and wise men and teachers. Some of them you will kill and crucify; others you will flog in your synagogues and pursue from town to town.”

is a later addition by some unknown person for some ulterior motive, as the contents do not fit:

1. on the past, as neither past tense has not been used by Jesus in the verse nor future tense,
2. nor fit the then present/future period between crucifixion to when Jesus departed alongwith his mother Mary from Galilee.

Another reason is that the word ‘some’ which denotes from 3 to 9 cases in each category, cannot be proved, at least none of my Catholic friends could submit some rational data so far, in response to my questions in this connection.

The verse also does not fit in the context of the chapter.

I think my Catholic friends would agree.

 

[onenow1]

HI, Ahamadi

Can’t you just picture the world in agreement with one another and God the way Jesus prayed for it. This :
John 17:When Jesus had spoken these words, he lifted up his eyes to heaven and said, "Father, the hour has come; glorify thy Son that the Son may glorify thee,
2 since thou hast given him power over all flesh, to give eternal life to all whom thou hast given him.
3 And this is eternal life, that they know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ whom thou hast sent.
4 I glorified thee on earth, having accomplished the work which thou gavest me to do;
5 and now, Father, glorify thou me in thy own presence with the glory which I had with thee before the world was made.
6 "I have manifested thy name to the men whom thou gavest me out of the world; thine they were, and thou gavest them to me, and they have kept thy word.
7 Now they know that everything that thou hast given me is from thee;
8 for I have given them the words which thou gavest me, and they have received them and know in truth that I came from thee; and they have believed that thou didst send me.
9 I am praying for them; I am not praying for the world but for those whom thou hast given me, for they are thine;
10 all mine are thine, and thine are mine, and I am glorified in them.
11 And now I am no more in the world, but they are in the world, and I am coming to thee. Holy Father, keep them in thy name, which thou hast given me, that they may be one, even as we are one.
12 While I was with them, I kept them in thy name, which thou hast given me; I have guarded them, and none of them is lost but the son of perdition, that the scripture might be fulfilled.
13 But now I am coming to thee; and these things I speak in the world, that they may have my joy fulfilled in themselves.
14 I have given them thy word; and the world has hated them because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
15 I do not pray that thou shouldst take them out of the world, but that thou shouldst keep them from the evil one.
16 They are not of the world, even as I am not of the world.
17 Sanctify them in the truth; thy word is truth.
18 As thou didst send me into the world, so I have sent them into the world.
19 And for their sake I consecrate myself, that they also may be consecrated in truth.
20 “I do not pray for these only, but also for those who believe in me through their word,
21 that they may all be one; even as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be in us, so that the world may believe that thou hast sent me.
22 The glory which thou hast given me I have given to them, that they may be one even as we are one,
23 I in them and thou in me, that they may become perfectly one, so that the world may know that thou hast sent me and hast loved them even as thou hast loved me.
24 Father, I desire that they also, whom thou hast given me, may be with me where I am, to behold my glory which thou hast given me in thy love for me before the foundation of the world.
25 O righteous Father, the world has not known thee, but I have known thee; and these know that thou hast sent me.
26 I made known to them thy name, and I will make it known, that the love with which thou hast loved me may be in them, and I in them.”

God does not want unwilling servants Ahamadi.

Peace, OneNow1:coffeeread:

 

[centurion50]

Why are so many in such a huff. I find Paarsurrey to be reasoning and kindhearted. You who have judged him are not being reasonable. paarsurrey poses interesting questions, forcing Catholics to think and argue their faith graciously seasoned with salt. I detect some of you feel threatened by another man’s faith argued from his point of view, which he like everyone else is entitled. Are youse guys frustrated because you haven been able to convert him. PEACE BE STILL.

 

[centurion50]

You welcome here, Paarsurrey, my friend.

 

[inJESUS]

:

1. How many Prophets did Jesus sent to the Jewish Clergy in his life span from that time he was addressing the Jewish clergy to the time he last departed from Galilee ;

 

[JFonseka]

Why are so many in such a huff. I find Paarsurrey to be reasoning and kindhearted. You who have judged him are not being reasonable. paarsurrey poses interesting questions, forcing Catholics to think and argue their faith graciously seasoned with salt. I detect some of you feel threatened by another man’s faith argued from his point of view, which he like everyone else is entitled. Are youse guys frustrated because you haven been able to convert him. PEACE BE STILL.

We had no intention of converting him, we get frustrated because when we put up a question he can’t answer, he ignores it and goes back to a statement like this : “Jesus died in India ,etc etc”

And then when we ask for evidence he will say:

“The pristine word of Allah has been witnessed etc. etc.”

And the saga continues…

So far he has managed to avoid the questions about the inconsistencies in the Quran. Most or all of his questions about verses in the Bible have been answered here by various users.

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi my catholic friend centurion50, with love

It is not that I ignore their posts, they want to debate with me, and I have told these Catholic friends that I don’t debate with anybody.

If I had wanted to debate with somebody then I would have joined a debate forum, reason is that in a debate the first casuality is love, and love is more dear to me than a debate.

I only respond those posts, which have a polite language, if the general impression of somebody’s post is not to my liking, or I smell a tinge of sour, sorry, I won’t answer immediately.

I have respect for these friends and their faith and much regard.

I think it is reasonable

Thanks.

 

[paarsurrey]

Hi my catholic friend centurion50, with love

It is not that I ignore their posts, they want to debate with me, and I have told these Catholic friends that I don’t debate with anybody.

If I had wanted to debate with somebody then I would have joined a debate forum, reason is that in a debate the first casuality is love, and love is more dear to me than a debate.

I only respond those posts, which have a polite language, if the general impression of somebody’s post is not to my liking, or I smell a tinge of sour, sorry, I won’t answer immediately.

I have respect for these friends and their faith and much regard.

I think it is reasonable

Thanks.