Matthew 25:41 Hell created for the devil and his angels

[Simca]

I wanted to ask some questions that I wonder about off and on:

Was hell created as a place of punishment or was it just to be the abode of the devil and the fallen angels?

If it was created as a place of punishment, why aren’t they being punished? In the many saints’ visions of Hell, saints see demons, whose place hell is supposed to be, seeming to have freedom, but allowed to imprison and torture human beings, who may not have deliberately disobeyed God, like the demons and fallen angels did, but may have been deceived and fallen into sin. Why would this be so?

After the final judgement, will the Satan, the fallen angels and unsaved human beings all suffer the same destiny in the lake of fire? Or will Satan still be in charge and have the freedom to do whatever wants there?

Or do we just not know?

Thanks!

 

[Nelka]

Just being around Satan in torture even if he is in pain.

Hell was designed for Satan and his demons but we can join him if we choose to.

They will all suffer the same fate however it will be worse for those that have been worse in their lives, Satan will suffer the most of all.

Satan won’t be in charge at all, he just exudes evil which is terrible for all that are with him.

 

[captainrick]

I wanted to ask some questions that I wonder about off and on:

Was hell created as a place of punishment or was it just to be the abode of the devil and the fallen angels?

If it was created as a place of punishment, why aren’t they being punished? In the many saints’ visions of Hell, saints see demons, whose place hell is supposed to be, seeming to have freedom, but allowed to imprison and torture human beings, who may not have deliberately disobeyed God, like the demons and fallen angels did, but may have been deceived and fallen into sin. Why would this be so?

After the final judgement, will the Satan, the fallen angels and unsaved human beings all suffer the same destiny in the lake of fire? Or will Satan still be in charge and have the freedom to do whatever wants there?

Or do we just not know?

Thanks!

Exactly! We just don’t know !

 

[po18guy]

There is some enlightenment in this interview with an exorcist priest: regnumchristi.org/english/articulos/articulo.phtml?id=14318&se=364&ca=118&te=782

But, the blessing in this interview is that God’s power is always superior to that of the devil. One other thing: look at the power that Mary’s name has over demons. The demons’ name reveals their identity and their presence. Demons never want to give up their name, but they weaken at the mention of Mary. Her name reveals both who and what she is.

 

[mikekle]

I wanted to ask some questions that I wonder about off and on:

Was hell created as a place of punishment or was it just to be the abode of the devil and the fallen angels?

If it was created as a place of punishment, why aren’t they being punished? In the many saints’ visions of Hell, saints see demons, whose place hell is supposed to be, seeming to have freedom, but allowed to imprison and torture human beings, who may not have deliberately disobeyed God, like the demons and fallen angels did, but may have been deceived and fallen into sin. Why would this be so?

After the final judgement, will the Satan, the fallen angels and unsaved human beings all suffer the same destiny in the lake of fire? Or will Satan still be in charge and have the freedom to do whatever wants there?

Or do we just not know?

Thanks!

I wonder about the exact same thing, it seems to me some aspects about this does not make much sense.

the largest being Satan did what he did in Heaven, and he is kicked out of Heaven, BUT, God also creates a place for him and the demons(hell), why would God create a home for his enemy? I realize it is said to be their place of torment and punishment, but it is obvious they are able to come and go, so its not really a prison for them.

Plus, since humans are sent there, and the demons are the ones inflicting the torment upon the human souls, then it would appear they rule over hell and not really being tormented there.

I also question how 1 place could be the place of punishment for 2 entirely different types of beings, angels who are now demons, and human souls, we are told angels and demons are purely spiritual, but humans are not, so how could 1 place be the same torment for these 2 types of beings? What would be considered torment and punishment for demons MAY not be the same thing for humans…right?

 

[Simca]

There is some enlightenment in this interview with an exorcist priest: regnumchristi.org/english/articulos/articulo.phtml?id=14318&se=364&ca=118&te=782

This article is interesting. Here is a quote from it:

Where are demons at home? Hell?

Yes. Hell was made for them, not for people.

So Hell was made too?

Yes. Angels were created, thus fallen angels and thus hell. It is no self-creation. Hell is not a place, it´s a state. It´s the state in which demons can be themselves, united in their hatred of God. It´s the state of the negation of love. God is love. Hell is anti-love, it´s hatred. Hell is a notion of the state of these spirits. Hell is the state of an eternal anti-love. It´s also the eternal refusal to accept the love of God.

I find it interesting when it says that Hell is not a place, it’s a state. In many visions of people in hell, saints have seen demons shove people into small cell-like places. Maybe it’s all symbolic of the suffering that will be experienced when people can no longer experience any of the good things that God’s Spirit brings: joy, love, etc. And I’ve read that perhaps hell-fire is a symbol of being under God’s eternal judgement.

I wonder about the exact same thing, it seems to me some aspects about this does not make much sense.

the largest being Satan did what he did in Heaven, and he is kicked out of Heaven, BUT, God also creates a place for him and the demons(hell), why would God create a home for his enemy? I realize it is said to be their place of torment and punishment, but it is obvious they are able to come and go, so its not really a prison for them.

Plus, since humans are sent there, and the demons are the ones inflicting the torment upon the human souls, then it would appear they rule over hell and not really being tormented there.

I also question how 1 place could be the place of punishment for 2 entirely different types of beings, angels who are now demons, and human souls, we are told angels and demons are purely spiritual, but humans are not, so how could 1 place be the same torment for these 2 types of beings? What would be considered torment and punishment for demons MAY not be the same thing for humans…right?

I agree with you that it all seems confusing.

Do you find it interesting that in Matthew, one demon asked Jesus if He had come to torment him before the time? We know that the Judgement is yet to come, and according to I Corinthians 6:3 the saints will judge the fallen angels. So it seems like the judgement for the fallen angels has not yet come. So people are judged immediately after death and I guess they become the property of the one they have chosen to follow on earth: either God or Satan. Thus if they are Satan’s property, I guess he can do what he pleases with them.
(This is the conclusion I’ve reached - at least at the moment.)

And the future Lake of Fire will be an eternal judgement for everyone where Satan will definitely suffer: ‘‘And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever.’’ Rev 20:10 Anyone whose name was not found written in the book of life was thrown into the lake of fire. Rev 20:15

 

[po18guy]

I find it interesting when it says that Hell is not a place, it’s a state. In many visions of people in hell, saints have seen demons shove people into small cell-like places. Maybe it’s all symbolic of the suffering that will be experienced when people can no longer experience any of the good things that God’s Spirit brings: joy, love, etc. And I’ve read that perhaps hell-fire is a symbol of being under God’s eternal judgement.

As I see it, hell is worse than a physical place, as the spiritual pain and suffering may probably exceed that which we can perceive through our senses. And, since the senses can also be pleasing, those on hell are deprived of their senses, having no hope of anything but suffering. After the resurrection, this all may be changed, since both evil and good will be resurrected. I haven’t delved that far into it yet. Better to fixate on heaven, while knowing enough about hell to strive to avoid it at all costs.

 

[mikekle]

It is curious that whenever a question comes up about something in the bible, at least one or 2 people will answer that the particular verse in question should not be taken literally, and is symbolic or a metaphor for something else, as this is How the bible was written ( in their opinion), why then does everyone assume all the talk about Hell is literal? All the biblical descriptions could EASILY be symbolic or a metaphor, surprising not many people recognize this?

Due to the fact that God is just, I highly doubt a human soul, guilty of not following the Lord, would be thrown into the exact same place as Satan, who attempted the worst sin that a human could not even commit! that makes no sense, plus satan conned 1/3 of Gods angels!!! Surely his punishment will be greater than anyone else…If not, than that would contradict Gods just nature, as this is the very definition of ‘JUST’.

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

I wanted to ask some questions that I wonder about off and on:

Was hell created as a place of punishment or was it just to be the abode of the devil and the fallen angels?

Why can’t it be both?

If it was created as a place of punishment, why aren’t they being punished? In the many saints’ visions of Hell, saints see demons, whose place hell is supposed to be, seeming to have freedom, but allowed to imprison and torture human beings, who may not have deliberately disobeyed God, like the demons and fallen angels did, but may have been deceived and fallen into sin. Why would this be so?

Some prisoners are given yard time. Does this mean they’re not being punished with prison? Is prison somehow no longer a punishment because they have yard time? I wonder; what would someone who is incarcerated think? Considering those who are in Hell are ones who have committed mortal sin, there is then no one there that has not deliberately disobeyed. This is why humans go to Hell, because like the fallen angles they knew what they wanted to do was wrong, but chose to do it anyway.

After the final judgement, will the Satan, the fallen angels and unsaved human beings all suffer the same destiny in the lake of fire? Or will Satan still be in charge and have the freedom to do whatever wants there?

Does it matter? Is any soul truly free in Hell?

 

[mikekle]

Why can’t it be both?

Some prisoners are given yard time. Does this mean they’re not being punished with prison? Is prison somehow no longer a punishment because they have yard time? I wonder; what would someone who is incarcerated think? Considering those who are in Hell are ones who have committed mortal sin, there is then no one there that has not deliberately disobeyed. This is why humans go to Hell, because like the fallen angles they knew what they wanted to do was wrong, but chose to do it anyway.

Does it matter? Is any soul truly free in Hell?

No, what Satan did was MUCH more severe than ANY sin a human could commit, he literally wanted Gods position, Humans are not even capable of committing such a sin, PLUS, Satan went a step further, he conned 1/3 of Gods angels that he was right and to follow him…Id imagine this alone may have been worse than trying a ‘coup’ in Heaven.

Hell was created for Satan and the demons specifically, and since fallen angels and humans are much different beings, I doubt a single place could ‘cater’ to both, whether it be for punishment or anything else. what satan and the demons consider to be punishment and what humans consider it to be, are more than likely a whole lot different.

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

No, what Satan did was MUCH more severe than ANY sin a human could commit, he literally wanted Gods position, Humans are not even capable of committing such a sin, PLUS, Satan went a step further, he conned 1/3 of Gods angels that he was right and to follow him…Id imagine this alone may have been worse than trying a ‘coup’ in Heaven.

What are you talking about? Humans commit the same sin as Satan every time they commit a Mortal Sin, and our first parents made this same sin in the Garden. Look at the temptation again:

For God doth know that in what day soever you shall eat thereof, your eyes shall be opened: and you shall be as Gods, knowing good and evil.

How can a creature know something as God knows it? The only way someone can know something as an eternal being knows it, is if that being is also eternal. The temptation was to be GOD. Hmmm didn’t Satan want to be his own God? Yes!

Satan conned the other angles? You cannot con an angle. Their very nature does not allow this. Face it, these angles knew what they were doing was wrong but did it anyway. Sounds a lot like mortal sin… These angles saw their brilliance and decided they didn’t want to obey. They did not want to serve. They thought themselves too smart, to beautiful, too amazing to be servants. Who else says this? Humans! All the time! I am too smart for religion, too beautiful to be modest, too talented to serve others out of charity. “I must get mine” is a popular saying. Every sin says in some way; “I want to be my own God.”

Hell was created for Satan and the demons specifically, and since fallen angels and humans are much different beings, I doubt a single place could ‘cater’ to both, whether it be for punishment or anything else. what satan and the demons consider to be punishment and what humans consider it to be, are more than likely a whole lot different.

You haven’t given one good example of why it couldn’t cater to both beings since both are there for the same reason; willful, grave, sin.

 

[mikekle]

What are you talking about? Humans commit the same sin as Satan every time they commit a Mortal Sin, and our first parents made this same sin in the Garden. Look at the temptation again:

How can a creature know something as God knows it? The only way someone can know something as an eternal being knows it, is if that being is also eternal. The temptation was to be GOD. Hmmm didn’t Satan want to be his own God? Yes!

Satan conned the other angles? You cannot con an angle. Their very nature does not allow this. Face it, these angles knew what they were doing was wrong but did it anyway. Sounds a lot like mortal sin… These angles saw their brilliance and decided they didn’t want to obey. They did not want to serve. They thought themselves too smart, to beautiful, too amazing to be servants. Who else says this? Humans! All the time! I am too smart for religion, too beautiful to be modest, too talented to serve others out of charity. “I must get mine” is a popular saying. Every sin says in some way; “I want to be my own God.”

You haven’t given one good example of why it couldn’t cater to both beings since both are there for the same reason; willful, grave, sin.

No matter how hard I tried or wished it to be, there is just no way I would be able to convince 1/3 of the angels that I was right and they should follow me, instead of God…I could not even convince 1 angel!!! So there is no possible way a human could commit such a sin as this!

I get what you are trying to say about humans wanting to be ‘their own gods’ thru our actions, but in what satan did…this was much different, he wanted Gods literal position…something humans cannot even comprehend, He wanted control over everything, Humans could never even be in this position, most humans do not want power over everything, they just want control over their lives, and I think most people realize they are not capable of handling Gods ‘job’

Satan, in a way, can though, he knows what it is like to tempt trillions of people, he knows how to influence people all over the world, he has powers that we do not and could never attain…so its safe to say there are sins he can commit that we cannot possibly commit, the rebellion against God was one of those. Humans may try to rebel against God in our small ways, but we will NEVER reach the level of what satan has accomplished, how many souls do you think satan has managed to influence over the centuries and they end up in hell? So, in this aspect, Satan has ‘won’ those individual souls instead of God. Again, humans do not have this ability, and never will

 

[Credo_in_Deum]

No matter how hard I tried or wished it to be, there is just no way I would be able to convince 1/3 of the angels that I was right and they should follow me, instead of God…I could not even convince 1 angel!!! So there is no possible way a human could commit such a sin as this!

My friend you could not convince an angel because an angel is a purley spiritual being which has only an intellect and a will. At the very moment of its creation, it was endowed with all of the knowledge God willed it to have. For this very reason angels cannot learn. Angels do not need to problem solve. They already know the answer. This is also why Satan could not “con” the other angels because they would have already known it was a con. Satan and the other angels did not want to serve and they made this decision knowing full well it was sinful. None of them were conned or convinced by other angels. Each one willed with all it’s being to oppose God.

I get what you are trying to say about humans wanting to be ‘their own gods’ thru our actions, but in what satan did…this was much different, he wanted Gods literal position…something humans cannot even comprehend, He wanted control over everything, Humans could never even be in this position, most humans do not want power over everything, they just want control over their lives, and I think most people realize they are not capable of handling Gods ‘job’

I know you’re trying to demonstrate that one is way worse than the other. Yet, this does not take away from the the fact that both the sin of Satan and mortal sins of damned humans were done in the same/are manner. Both beings understood the graveness of their actions, willed the sin, and then committed the sin. This is why they suffer the same consequence; Hell. They both willfully turned away from Goodness itself, and there is only one logical conclusion for where a being goes when it turns away from the Eternal Good.

Satan, in a way, can though, he knows what it is like to tempt trillions of people, he knows how to influence people all over the world, he has powers that we do not and could never attain…so its safe to say there are sins he can commit that we cannot possibly commit, the rebellion against God was one of those. Humans may try to rebel against God in our small ways, but we will NEVER reach the level of what satan has accomplished, how many souls do you think satan has managed to influence over the centuries and they end up in hell? So, in this aspect, Satan has ‘won’ those individual souls instead of God. Again, humans do not have this ability, and never will

I think you seriously underestimate the seriousness of sin and the effect it has on all of creation. One act of pride from Adam and Eve resulted in the corruption of the entire world. Sin is so bad that only by the Incarnation, Passion, and Death of our Lord, could it have ever been paid for. Think about that. Who gives a flying pie if Satan can commit different sins? Ours are still worse enough to cause the Passion and Death of Christ! They merit Hell, and that is being generous. Plus there are plenty of humans that tempt others to sin and lead them down the path of destruction.