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redeemedbyJesus
Guest
But you yourself said it was faith AND works…
you can’t have it both ways.
you can’t have it both ways.
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NotWorthy
Guest
Faith and Works is right. Our works will be rewarded in Heaven. Not because we deserve these rewards, but because Christ honors His promises.
Let me ask you something. Jesus uses many parables on Judgment. Do any of these parables say we will be judged by something other than our works? Works are a part of the puzzle, as I’ve always said, but those works need to be done out of love for Christ, not as a thing on their own (for that will get us no where).
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redeemedbyJesus
Guest
While I agree we will be rewarded for our works… we won’t be damned at that judgment seat.
Whereas Catholics teach that if you sin and don’t confess it, it can mean you are damned. That is not what the bible teaches!
The bible lists how we can lose salvation and it’s not by sinning…
But this is not what the Catholic church teaches in it’s abundances of rules now is it?
If you miss mass, it’s a mortal sin is it not?
that is just one of the hundreds of additions the catholic church has added to scripture, and that is what I don’t believe is right.
God bless.
Whereas Catholics teach that if you sin and don’t confess it, it can mean you are damned. That is not what the bible teaches!
The bible lists how we can lose salvation and it’s not by sinning…
- unforgiveness - not forgiving someone when we have been forgiven
- not having mercy
- Denying Jesus
But this is not what the Catholic church teaches in it’s abundances of rules now is it?
If you miss mass, it’s a mortal sin is it not?
that is just one of the hundreds of additions the catholic church has added to scripture, and that is what I don’t believe is right.
God bless.
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CWBetts
Guest
Don’t get started on the Scripture Alone thing. Thats not the discusiion you want to get into.
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NotWorthy
Guest
Oh really? Then why does Jesus give the Apostles the authority to forgive sins.
And where do you get the notion that we can’t “sin ourselves out of salvation”? Do you honestly believe that sins don’t hurt our salvation?!?
Doesn’t the Church have the authority to make an abundance of rules, or do you deny that Scripture gives this?
If I willingly miss a Sunday Mass, then yes its a sin, as it should be. Why would you want to sit home and watch TV when you can go worship the Lord?
It’s only Scriptural!
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redeemedbyJesus
Guest
Jesus gave authority to all Christians not just to the apostles… but I guess you believe that when Jesus was saying he will build his church on the rock you thought he meant Peter too…
Your argument is the Catholic Church is God’s church because the Catholic church says so. How do you know that the Church has not twisted scripture to suit it’s own ideas?
Maybe the “church” is not a building but a person who has been filled with the holy spirit and it’s the holy spirit who gives the correct meaning of the scriptures… do you think that could be a possibility?
And if that is the truth… what is guiding the Catholic church and how do you discern it if the Catholic church is the final authority? How can you discern truth for yourself if you aren’t allowed to interpret the scriptures for yourself?
Your argument is the Catholic Church is God’s church because the Catholic church says so. How do you know that the Church has not twisted scripture to suit it’s own ideas?
Maybe the “church” is not a building but a person who has been filled with the holy spirit and it’s the holy spirit who gives the correct meaning of the scriptures… do you think that could be a possibility?
And if that is the truth… what is guiding the Catholic church and how do you discern it if the Catholic church is the final authority? How can you discern truth for yourself if you aren’t allowed to interpret the scriptures for yourself?
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CWBetts
Guest
The Church is not a building, but the Body of Christ, who have been led by holy men of God, starting with St. Peter and the 12. Matthew 16:18. which you referncwe is very much the start of the Church, which is the “pillar snd source of all truth” (1 Tim. 3:15). Nowhere is it indicated that every believer has the authority of the apostles. To do this leads to the sad division we see today among the thousands of Protestant denominations.
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redeemedbyJesus
Guest
It’s my opinion that if all denominations stuck with scripture as the guidelines for truth… then we would all be united.
Unfortunately many churches place man made doctrines and/or traditions over scripture… which of course, leads to division and arguments. Which Paul was constantly asking people not to do… but to stick to the gospel which was first preached to them.
Unfortunately many churches place man made doctrines and/or traditions over scripture… which of course, leads to division and arguments. Which Paul was constantly asking people not to do… but to stick to the gospel which was first preached to them.
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NotWorthy
Guest
This is interesting.
A) Jesus teaches the crowds that if they don’t forgive peoples sins, then God won’t forgive their sins.
B) Jesus teaches the Apostles only that if they don’t forgive other people’s sins, then Jesus won’t forgive them.
Which rule applies to you and I?
And Jesus was speaking to Peter when he said “You are Rock and upon this Rock I will build my Church”.
Are we fixing to go through the Grammar Gymnastics for you go conjugate that Jesus was talking about Himself. Even Protestest theologians claim that this is just twisting Scripture to suit your own needs.
Well… there was only one Church back then. I bet I can trace my bishop, here in Beaumont, all the way back to one of the 12. Can you?
That’s only half of it. Protestants, in general, have been wasting the last 500 years trying to tear down the other half. From its very infancy, the Church has shown that there has to be a visible authority to resolve issues. This has not changed down through the ages.
Jesus’ words in John 15 come to mind. Historical tracking backs it up.
And where in the world did you get that I’m not allowed to interpret Scriptures for myself? This is yet another Church teaching that you have been misled on.
The only stipulation is that I can’t interpret it against a teaching of the Church. You see, you guys do that, and you’ve come up with 1000’s of little churches with 1000’s of little popes… you just don’t call them “Pope”. But each little church has a difference somewhere in its teachings.
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NotWorthy
Guest
It is my mind that if all Protestant faiths went back to the Catholic Church, then we would be united.
Yeah, I agree with you. It’s just you guys that have changed the rules like the seasons.
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CWBetts
Guest
(Edited)
We are not talking about your opinion or my opinion. They don’t matter. The scriptures are clear. The Church is the authority.
We are not talking about your opinion or my opinion. They don’t matter. The scriptures are clear. The Church is the authority.
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NotWorthy
Guest
This is yet another example of inconsistency.
You trust that Jesus is going to save you just as He Promised. And yet you don’t trust that Jesus will send the Holy Spirit to guide His Bride, the Church, to all Truths. Don’t you think Jesus knew that there would be fallible people in His Church, even evil ones? Why yes, the Parable of the Weeds tells us this. So why don’t you trust Jesus in this promise.
That’s what has led to the numerous divisions among other faiths. Lack of trust in this One Promise.
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NotWorthy
Guest
Aw rats!!! I wanted Redeemed to answer which parables teach of our judgments that are not based on our works.
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Michael_Francis
Guest
Sorry, had some clean up and pruning to do. 
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NotWorthy
Guest
Sometimes you can spoil all the fun, Michael!!!Sorry, had some clean up and pruning to do.
But to anyone else, are there any teachings that Jesus gives us on our Judgment that do not include good works?
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cheeto1
Guest
There is another “list” besides Matthew 25.
It’s Corinthians 13.
Love is really our only command, and Corinthians 13 gives instructions.
I would be amazed to meet one person who can always do
even one of the thirteen things listed in v. 4-7 all the time.
Compared to Corinthians 13, Matthew 25 is a piece of cake.
That’s why people argue about this. It would be easier to just
do everything on Matthew 25 and expect to be saved. But what
if we have to do everything on Corinthians 13 too?
Guess what, we do. So let’s master Corinthians 13, and then
Matthew 25 will come naturally. If anyone can master Corinthians 13, no one will argue with that one.
OP, I have wondered the same thing as you, I don’t like prisons or hospitals. But if I loved someone, and they were there, I would visit them.
It’s Corinthians 13.
Love is really our only command, and Corinthians 13 gives instructions.
I would be amazed to meet one person who can always do
even one of the thirteen things listed in v. 4-7 all the time.
Compared to Corinthians 13, Matthew 25 is a piece of cake.
That’s why people argue about this. It would be easier to just
do everything on Matthew 25 and expect to be saved. But what
if we have to do everything on Corinthians 13 too?
Guess what, we do. So let’s master Corinthians 13, and then
Matthew 25 will come naturally. If anyone can master Corinthians 13, no one will argue with that one.
OP, I have wondered the same thing as you, I don’t like prisons or hospitals. But if I loved someone, and they were there, I would visit them.
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Strategery
Guest
The more I go through this discussion, the more I’m convinced that the stumbling block is the definition of the word “believe” in the context of the bible. Just look a little further down, to the last verse of John 3.
:
Clearly Christ is saying that disobedience is the opposite of belief. It then follows that obedience is belief.
John hits this point again in 1 John.
It is crystal clear that belief connotates obedience.
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Strategery
Guest
This is so true.
It’s not – “Look what I did?”
It’s – “Look what God did when I let Him use me.”
We are called to follow Christ. Remain in Him. Everything else flows from that.
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NotWorthy
Guest
Right on, right on!
How in the world can you believe that Jesus Christ is Lord Savior and completely ignore what He teaches?
Its beyond me!
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Xenos8
Guest
Basically, my point was that we’re saved by grace through faith as Eph 2:8-9 says and not works. Works are important evidences of true, saving faith and they’ll be judged. But, no one is going to heaven based solely on what they did because that would make the cross unnecessary. Notice also that Jesus calls the sheep righteous. If you want to know what the bible says on a topic, don’t look at the catechism… let scripture interpret scripture as you look at other places that talk about the same thing. I recommend Romans 4 since Paul explains how someone’s faith is accounted as righteousness and about imputed righteousness. I used John 3:16 because it clearly says “that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.” As you can see, and if you want to read all the context go ahead, that He doesn’t add any conditions to believing in Him.
1129 The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation.
Here’s the kicker: all those things are works. No one’s salvation is based on what they did, it’s based on what Jesus did. He lived the perfect life, which I can’t do, and He paid for all my sins on the cross. What can I do in addition to that? What else needs to be done? John 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.
And no, Jesus wasn’t wrong…
No, it isn’t.
1129 The Church affirms that for believers the sacraments of the New Covenant are necessary for salvation.
Here’s the kicker: all those things are works. No one’s salvation is based on what they did, it’s based on what Jesus did. He lived the perfect life, which I can’t do, and He paid for all my sins on the cross. What can I do in addition to that? What else needs to be done? John 19:30 So when Jesus had received the sour wine, He said, “It is finished!” And bowing His head, He gave up His spirit.
And no, Jesus wasn’t wrong…
So?
Properly interpreted the bible has no contradictions.
No, I don’t, see above for good works discussion.
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