Matthew 27:46 and Islam

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How can Christians believe that the words “MY GOD, MY GOD, WHY HAVE YOU FORSAKEN ME?” can come from Jesus (pbuh) since it is so obvious that the Psalm verses above is the lamentation of someone who has sinned and is praying for salvation from his Lord…
The words were written by someone who sinned as a prophecy of the one who had not sinned and would come to bear our sins.
Do Christians believe that Jesus committed sin
No.
that he should utter these words of someone praying for his salvation when he was allegedly dying on the cross?
As mentioned before (see message #4), Jesus said these words to indicate to the Jews that He was the Messiah, the Son of God which was prophecied in this Psalm.

sincerely,

De Maria
 
Prophecies are not all the same. There are clear prophecies about events and there are prophecies inbedded (sp?) in other events. In this case, the message is to be taken, and not all the details it describes.
 
Prophecies are not all the same. There are clear prophecies about events and there are prophecies inbedded (sp?) in other events. In this case, the message is to be taken, and not all the details it describes.
But there’s no prophecy for Muhammed in the Bible (unless you take “Beware of false prophets”)
 
But there’s no prophecy for Muhammed in the Bible (unless you take “Beware of false prophets”)
Hi

There are many prophecies in the Bible about advent of the truthful ProphetMessenger Muhammad. I had mentioned one or two in my post, perhaps you couldn’t read them. Never mind, I give one here from “The Introduction to the Study of Holy Quran” by Mirza Mahmood Ahmad s/o the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908:

THE HOLY PROPHET MENTIONED IN HABAKKUK

This advent was also prophesied by Habakkuk (3 : 3-7)
six hundred and twenty-six years before Jesus. Thus we have :
God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran.
Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full
of his praise. And his brightness was as the light ; he had
horns coming out of his hands : and there was the hiding of his
power. Before him went the pestilence, and burning coals
went forth at his feet. He stood, and measured the earth :
he beheld, and drove asunder the nations ; and the everlasting
mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow : his ways
are everlasting. I saw the tents of Cushan in affliction ; and
the curtains of the land of Midian did tremble.

Here we have a mention of Tema and of a Holy One from
Paran. From the prophecies of Moses and Habakkuk it is
evident that the advent of Jesus was not to mark the last stage
in the spiritual development of man. I t was to be followed by
the advent of another Prophet to mark the third manifestation
of divine glory. This prophet was to manifest both the Beauty
and the Majesty of God and bring a fiery Law into the world, not
merely a Message of forgiveness.

The Holy One to appear from the land of Tema and Mount
Paran is the Holy Prophet Muhammad, and his fiery Law is
the Quran which has the virtue of consuming to ashes the stuff
of which sins and satanic machinations are made. Moses
truly said that the Promised One, rising from Paran, would be
accompanied by ten thousand saints. As all the world knows,
it was the Holy Prophet of Islam who rose from Paran and
marched into Mecca with ten thousand followers. Could
Jesus be said to have fulfilled this great prophecy or David or
Moses ? Did any of them rise from Paran ? Did any of them
march to victory with ten thousand saintly followers ?

Jesus had only twelve disciples, one of whom sold him for a little
money. Another cursed him for fear of being maltreated.
Ten remained faithful but, according to the Gospel account,
even they dispersed when Jesus was put on the Cross. Had
they stood by their Master’s side, even then a following of ten
could not have equalled a following of ten thousand. And then
the Biblical prophecy says clearly that the ten thousand would
be with the Promised Prophet. But the Gospels tell us that the
ten disciples of Jesus who remained abandoned him when he
was put on the Cross.

According to Habakkuk, one sign of the Promised One was to
be the amount of praise showered upon him. Thus Habakkuk
(3 : 3) says, “and the earth was full of his praise.”
It does not seem to us a mere accident that the Holy Prophet
of Islam was named Muhammad (literally, the Praised One).
When his enemies denounced him, they were worried by the
contradiction entailed in denouncing the Praised One. So they
changed his name from Muhammad to Mudhammam, from the
Praised One to the denounced one. When the Prophet’s
Companions got exasperated at the denunciations and abuse
hurled at him he would say, “Hold your peace ; they abuse not
me but someone else called Mudhammam.” Only a man with
a name as beautiful as his personality and character could answer
to the description which Habakkuk had given of the Promised
One.

No less significant is the tradition of devotional verse
which has grown in Islam, and which has resulted in an impor-
tant branch of the poetry written by Muslims of all countries.
Habakkuk also says :
“Before him went the pestilence, and burning coals went
forth at his feet” (3 : 5 ) .

This sign of the Promised One was also fulfilled in the
Prophet of Islam. True, the prophecy speaks of pestilence,
that is, a disease in epidemic form. But it is large scale
destruction and death which a pestilence brings which is here
meant. Because the enemies of the Holy Prophet suffered large
scale destruction and death in their encounters with him, he
may be said to have fulfilled even this part of the prophecy.
Again it says :
“He stood and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove
asunder the nations” (3 : 6).

Unquote

Thanks
 
continued from the previous post:

This part of the prophecy, like the others, can apply neither
to Moses nor to Jesus. Moses died while he was still fighting
his enemies, while Jesus was put on the Cross. The Prophet
who beheld and drove asunder the nations was the Prophet of
Islam. Truly did he say of himself, “My presence is awe-
inspiring, and I have been helped not a little by it. People fear
me from a distance of one month’s journey” (Bukhari)

Again :
“The everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual
hills did bow” (3 : 6).
This part of the prophecy also applies to the Holy Prophet
of Islam. For his enemies were completely routed. Mountains
and hills only mean powerful enemies.
Again we have in Habakkuk (3 : 7) :
“I saw the tents of Cushan in affliction : and the curtains of
the land of Midian did tremble.”

This part of the prophecy clearly shows that the Promised
Prophet was to belong to somewhere outside Syria. For it is
the hordes in Cushan and Midian which are to be afflicted
and frightened on the appearance of the armies of the Promised
One. The description cannot apply to Moses or Jesus. I t
applies only to the Prophet of Islam.

When a small army of
his, in the time of his First Successor, Abu Bakr, advanced
towards Palestine, notwithstanding the fact that Canaan was
then under the Roman Kaiser, master of half the known world
at the time, the superior forces of the Kaiser were crushed by
the inferior Muslim forces. “The tents of Cushan were in
affliction and the curtains of the land of Midian did tremble.”
The people of these lands found their salvation in laying down
their arms before the servants of the Holy Prophet Muhammad.

Unquote

Thanks
 
The Holy One to appear from the land of Tema and Mount
Paran is the Holy Prophet Muhammad, and his fiery Law is
the Quran which has the virtue of consuming to ashes the stuff
of which sins and satanic machinations are made. Moses
truly said that the Promised One, rising from Paran, would be
accompanied by ten thousand saints. As all the world knows,
it was the Holy Prophet of Islam who rose from Paran and
marched into Mecca with ten thousand followers. Could
Jesus be said to have fulfilled this great prophecy or David or
Moses ? Did any of them rise from Paran ? Did any of them
march to victory with ten thousand saintly followers ?

Jesus had only twelve disciples, one of whom sold him for a little
money. Another cursed him for fear of being maltreated.
Ten remained faithful but, according to the Gospel account,
even they dispersed when Jesus was put on the Cross. Had
they stood by their Master’s side, even then a following of ten
could not have equalled a following of ten thousand. And then
the Biblical prophecy says clearly that the ten thousand would
be with the Promised Prophet. But the Gospels tell us that the
ten disciples of Jesus who remained abandoned him when he
was put on the Cross.
Dear Paarsurrey, Please explain to me again why you conclude that Mohammad came from the country of Tema? I can not see why you conclude that the one fortold by Habakkuk was indeed Mohammad, just by bringing 10.000 followers. Adolf Hitler brought more than 10.000 followers and fearful laws. You can not make a conclusion of a prophecy based on one item met only. Taking into account today, I believe more than 1 billion people believe in Jesus no matter what denomination they come from. It is fascinating to me that only 3 persons were under Jesus’ cross, but it turns to be more than 1.000.000.000 today. Fearful law that Jesus brought? Yes, it is fearful. Can you give your right cheek if somebody slap your left one? Can you love your enemy? It is a fearful law, my friend, since it is unreasonable by human ego. That is why, eventhough you come from a different religion, and having different interpretation to my bible, as Jesus’ follower I must always welcome you with open arm and heart.
 
This is the second time he’s taken my posts as an ‘invitation’ to spam.
 
But there’s no prophecy for Muhammed in the Bible (unless you take “Beware of false prophets”)
i think there is : satan coming as an angel of light…maybe that’s why Muslims hate the apostle Paul that much 😉
 
Hi

There are many prophecies in the Bible about advent of the truthful ProphetMessenger Muhammad.
There are none. Zero!
I had mentioned one or two in my post, perhaps you couldn’t read them.
That’s true, you did mention them before.
Never mind, I give one here from “The Introduction to the Study of Holy Quran” by Mirza Mahmood Ahmad s/o the PromisedMessiah 1835-1908:
How did you get a prophecy of the Bible from the study of the Quran? That is your problem right there. If you can’t distinguish between the Bible and the Quran, your problems run deeper than anyone thought.
THE HOLY PROPHET MENTIONED IN HABAKKUK
This advent was also prophesied by Habakkuk (3 : 3-7)
six hundred and twenty-six years before Jesus. Thus we have :
God came from Teman, and the Holy One from mount Paran.
Muslims don’t believe that Mohammed is God. This says that God came from Teman. Unless heaven is in Teman, this verse is referring to the ManGod, Jesus Christ.

Mount Paran is in the north part of the desert where the Jews spent wandered 40 years. The Bible, in another place says that another like Moses will come after Moses. The Holy One refers to God and also to God’s Messiah. So this again refers to Jesus Christ, our Lord and our God.
Selah. His glory covered the heavens, and the earth was full of his praise.
Again, this speaks of God’s glory and we believe that Jesus is God. No one, not even Muslims believe that Mohammed is God.
And his brightness was as the light ; he had
horns coming out of his hands : and there was the hiding of his power. Before him went the pestilence, and burning coals went forth at his feet. He stood, and measured the earth : he beheld, and drove asunder the nations ; and the everlasting mountains were scattered, the perpetual hills did bow : his ways
are everlasting.
saw the tents of Cushan in affliction ; and the curtains of the land of Midian did tremble.
More descriptions of the Messiah being God, therefore this continues to be a prophecy of Jesus Christ.
IHere we have a mention of Tema and of a Holy One from Paran.
A Holy One whose glory covers the heaven and the earth:

Hebrews 1:3
Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high:
From the prophecies of Moses and Habakkuk it is evident that the advent of Jesus was not to mark the last stage
Habakkuk and the prophecies of Moses were written before the advent of Jesus. Everything in the Old Testament points to Jesus. Jesus is hidden in the Old Testament and revealed in the New.

biblia.com/jesusbible/prophecies.htm
in the spiritual development of man. I t was to be followed by the advent of another Prophet to mark the third manifestation of divine glory. This prophet was to manifest both the Beauty and the Majesty of God
Only Jesus did that. He not only manifested the Divine Glory when He revealed Himself to Peter, James and John on Mt. Tabor, but He manifested His glory when He was baptized and the Holy Spirit descended on Him and the Father said, “This is my beloved Son.” But He revealed His glory by every miracle He performed, even bringing people back to life and by His Passion and Death which He defeated in three days coming back to life and then rising to sit at the right hand of the Father.

Mohammed’s glory is only that of man. Only men like you worship Mohammed.
It is Jesus which brought the fire of love into the world in a way unheard of before Him. Because Jesus is God and God is a cleansing fire.
The Holy One to appear from the land of Tema and Mount Paran is the Holy Prophet Muhammad, and his fiery Law is the Quran which has the virtue of consuming to ashes the stuff of which sins

Only Jesus gave men the power to forgive sins. Mohammed didn’t even attempt to do that.
CONT’D
 
CONT’D
and satanic machinations are made. Moses
truly said that the Promised One, rising from Paran, would be accompanied by ten thousand saints.
Deuteronomy 33:2

And he said, The LORD came from Sinai, and rose up from Seir unto them; he shined forth from mount Paran, and he came with ten thousands of saints: from his right hand went a fiery law for them.

Read it carefully. Moses is recounting the making of the ten Commandments. When the Lord, God, came from Sinai, from Mt. Paran which is in the desert where the Jews wandered for 40 days. Now, the only Prophet who is recognized as God in the Scriptures is Jesus Christ. So this is a retelling of the salvation of the Jews by God and a prophecy of Jesus Christ.
As all the world knows, it was the Holy Prophet of Islam who rose from Paran and marched into Mecca with ten thousand followers.
I’ve never heard that anyone worships Mohammed. But if you do, then so be it. We worship God.
Could Jesus be said to have fulfilled this great prophecy or David or Moses ? Did any of them rise from Paran ?
Yes, in fact they all did, since it is Paran that the Jews rebelled against God and fell to the depths of sin by building for themselves a calf of Gold to worship. It is from there that the Jews rose a Nation of Priests.
Did any of them
march to victory with ten thousand saintly followers ?
Yes. God. And Jesus is God.
Jesus had only twelve disciples, one of whom sold him for a little money. Another cursed him for fear of being maltreated. Ten remained faithful but, according to the Gospel account, even they dispersed when Jesus was put on the Cross. Had
they stood by their Master’s side, even then a following of ten could not have equalled a following of ten thousand.
But Jesus is God and this is a prophecy of His Coming at the end of the world in the Judgement.
And then the Biblical prophecy says clearly that the ten thousand would be with the Promised Prophet. But the Gospels tell us that the
ten disciples of Jesus who remained abandoned him when he was put on the Cross.
That is true. But they returned to Him after they were sifted like wheat and St. Peter strengthened them:

Luke 22:31
And the Lord said, Simon, Simon, behold, Satan hath desired to have you, that he may sift you as wheat: 32But I have prayed for thee, that thy faith fail not: and when thou art converted, strengthen thy brethren.
According to Habakkuk, one sign of the Promised One was to be the amount of praise showered upon him. Thus Habakkuk
(3 : 3) says, “and the earth was full of his praise.”
It does not seem to us a mere accident that the Holy Prophet of Islam was named Muhammad (literally, the Praised One).
A misnomer since literally the entire world, outside of Islam, abhors the name.
CONT’D
 
CONT’D
When his enemies denounced him, they were worried by the contradiction entailed in denouncing the Praised One. So they changed his name from Muhammad to Mudhammam, from the Praised One to the denounced one.
That wasn’t because they were worried. That was because the name fits better.
When the Prophet’s Companions got exasperated at the denunciations and abuse
hurled at him he would say, “Hold your peace ; they abuse not me but someone else called Mudhammam.” Only a man with a name as beautiful as his personality and character could answer
to the description which Habakkuk had given of the Promised One.
Habakkuk describes God and His Glory. Only Jesus fits that description.
No less significant is the tradition of devotional verse which has grown in Islam, and which has resulted in an important branch of the poetry written by Muslims of all countries. Habakkuk also says :
“Before him went the pestilence, and burning coals went
forth at his feet” (3 : 5 ) .
This describes the pestilence with which God punished the Egyptians and the Pillar of Fire would certainly be described as causing burning coals. Whilst Jesus and His Angels will pronounce judgement on all unbelievers at the end of time and His angels will throw the unbelievers into the lake of fire. Therefore, this remains a retelling of
the Exodus and a foretelling of the EndTimes.

Definitely not about Mohammed.
This sign of the Promised One was also fulfilled in the Prophet of Islam. True, the prophecy speaks of pestilence,that is, a disease in epidemic form. But it is large scale destruction and death which a pestilence brings which is here meant. Because the enemies of the Holy Prophet suffered large
scale destruction and death in their encounters with him, he
may be said to have fulfilled even this part of the prophecy.
Again it says :“He stood and measured the earth: he beheld, and drove asunder the nations” (3 : 6).
Only God has done that. And Jesus is God.

Sorry to have to tell you, again, that Mohammed is not prophesied anywhere in the Bible, except as Montalban has said, “Beware false prophets.”

Sincerely,

De Maria
 
Indeed. Systematically and comprehensively destroying paarsurrey.

The only thing missing is paarsurrey’s counter-argument
He answers with spam, its the only way he knows how…

Is it just me, or is this forum loading all out of context on your computer as well?
 
BACK TO MY ORIGINAL QUESTION

The man in the YouTube video says that Jesus wasn’t crucified on the cross, that it was made to appear that he was. Then he makes a refernce to the gospel of Barnabass. So, does anyone know what this gospel reference says, exactly? Why did the prophet Muhammed use this gospel?
He didn’t. This work is a medieval forgery, for one thing you can tell that it is based on the Vulgate text, and makes references to medieval European life.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gospel_of_barnabas#Anachronisms

The article is pretty accurate as a summary on studies on it.
 
When Jesus said “why have you forsaken me”; the meaning is not that the hypostatical union with the Father was dissolved, which couldn’t even by death itself. The fullness of the Godhead still dwelt bodily in him. It wasn’t because he was separated from the love of God. He had the same interest in his Father’s heart and favour, both as his Son, and as mediator, as ever. It wasn’t because the joy and comfort was lost in his soul, as man. But he was now without a sense of the gracious presence of God, and was filled with a sense of divine wrath.

It was our iniquities he now bore, and which was necessary for him to endure, in order to make full satisfaction for them. One part of the punishment of sin is loss of the divine presence. He knew the reason he said “why have you forsaken me”, and that it was not out of personal disrespect to the Father, or for any sin of his own, or because he was not a righteous, but because he stood in the legal place, in the place of sinners. He said this because he was entirely resigned to the will of God, and content to drink the whole of the bitter cup. He doesn’t say it out of despair; for he at the same time strongly claims and asserts his interest in God, and repeats it. He says it to show, that he bore all the griefs of his people, and the divine desertion.

Tell me if I’m wrong.
In the EO service for Great and Holy Week, there is a line refering to the sun darkening and the earthquake, saying “creation suffered with the Creator.” In these words the Creator suffers, via the Hypostatic union, with His creation.
 
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