Maybe I should stay Protestant

[Julian0404]

Dave,
You have got the focus of your return to the Catholic Church on you, not on GOD, not on the Holy Spirit - on you. Conversion is always a story of how “you” came to know the true GOD, and HIS ways, truths, life and light. Your making it all about how come no one has brass bands, Welcome home banners, and the spot light on me? How do you know GOD does not have the focus on you and this is HIS test?
The Catholic Church teaches that we all must follow a “right conscience”, i.e formed with the truth. If you believe what the Catholic church teaches, but leave for a social club that also reads the Bible then you are violating your conscience.
What is missing in your faith walk is humility. One of the most difficult prayers for me to pray is the Litany of Humility in which we pray to be freed or released “…from the desire of being esteemed…loved…extolled…honored…praised…prefered…consulted…approved…”
To pray that prayer with an open heart and willingness for GOD to answer it, is to surrender your entire worldly existence to GOD and GOD alone. Not you, not our job, not your career, just GOD.
One last thought Dave. Look at the cross with Jesus nailed to it. That was not a social engagement, that was humility and death so that Dave from Dallas would have the free will choice to chose HIS way, HIS truth, HIS life.

 

[FidesSpesCarita]

Liturgy is not a “me & God” thing… it is a WE, US, & the communion of the Saints… it’s about WE as ONE worshipping God and bringing others to Him… if I already have Him I am supposed to share Him…
I’m not talking about “socializing” I’m speaking about bringing others to Truth…

This was a hard thing for me as well. Catholics tend to wait for others to come to us, rather than going out and evangelizing. There are lots of reasons for that attitude, but it does need to change, you are correct. My only (name removed by moderator)ut here is to quote Lewis

I hope no reader will suppose that “mere” Christianity is here put forward as an alternative to the creeds of the existing communions — as if a man could adopt it in preference to Congregationalism or Greek Orthodoxy or anything else.

It is more like a hall out of which doors open into several rooms. If I can bring anyone into that hall, I have done what I attempted. But it is in the rooms, not the hall, that there are fires and chairs and meals. The hall is a place to wait in, a place from which to try the various doors, not a place to live in. For that purpose the worst of the rooms (whichever that may be) is, I think preferable. It is true that some people may find they have to wait in the hall for a considerable time, while others feel certain almost at once which door they must knock at. I do not know why there is this difference, but I am sure God keeps no one waiting unless He sees that it is good for him to wait. When you do get into the room you will find that the long wait has done some kind of good which you would not have had otherwise. But you must regard it as waiting, not as camping. You must keep on praying for light: and, of course, even in the hall, you must begin trying to obey the rules which are common to the whole house. And above all you must be asking which door is the true one; not which pleases you best by its paint and paneling.

In plain language, the question should never be: “Do I like that kind of service?” but “Are these doctrines true: Is holiness here? Does my conscience move me towards this? Is my reluctance to knock at this door due to my pride, or my mere taste, or my personal dislike of this particular door-keeper?”

When you have reached your own room, be kind to those who have chosen different doors and to those who are still in the hall. If they are wrong they need your prayers all the more; and if they are your enemies, then you are under orders to pray for them. This is one of the rules common to the whole house.

FSC

 

[JReducation]

Protestantism is based on the Word of God. Aside from the Word, there is nothing more to their liturgy. Therefore, fellowship is very important to them, because that’s how the nurture their sense of community. This is not bad. It means that they have the concept of the importance of Word and communion. But they are lacking something that is found only in the Catholic and the Orthodox Churches.

The Catholic and Orthodox Churches derive their sense of communion not from our fellowship, but from our communion with Christ in the Eucharist. We are united to each other in a physical form, which the Protestants are not. Despite the differences that separate Catholics and Orthodox, when we receive the Body and Blood of Jesus in the Eucharist, we are one people and one body, since there is only one Jesus Christ with one physical body. The Reformation communities, as they are known to the Catholics and Orthodox, cannot be physically one, because they do not share the Body and Blood of Christ in the Eucharist. They are spiritually one, because they share the spirit of charity, which is important.

What we, Catholics and Orthodox, have is the Word of God, which is found throughout the entire liturgy: in the readings, in the preaching, and in the prayers. We have the physical union with each other through the physical union with Christ in the Eucharist. We have the ability to be present at Calvary in the holy sacrifice that takes place at the consecration and we are present as one people. Our acts of charity and corporal works of mercy outside of church are an extension or continuation of the charity of Christ that we have physically shared in liturgy.

The question is not whether the Catholic or the Orthodox want me to join them. The question is whether or not I want to be physically united to Christ. If I do, then the only place where I can be physically united to him is in a Church that has valid sacraments. The only Churches that have valid sacraments are the Apostolic Churches: the Catholic and the Orthodox.

The fellowship after the service is certainly a nice touch, but it is not necessary for our unity. We have the unity in the Word and Eucharist. That moves us into the community to express our faith through our charity.

I hope this helps someone.

Fraternally,

Br. JR, OSF

 

[Madaglan]

I’m more than a little disappointed in my journey back to the RC church and my side curiosity in the EOC. I’ve been two EO churches, both VERY small, and obviously a visitor, little was done to evangelize me. There was a couple of nice folks there… but almost nothing done to want me to come back to that congregation…
At least RC parishes have a local radio station to evangelize, but the local parishes aren’t overly friendly either.
I am scheduled to get my marriage convalidated next month… but I figured now would be a good time to make sure that I want to get back into the RC. Whatever I choose… I want it to be the last time.
I like what I read about the EO approach to theology… but without instruction…
I kind of get a “you should feel priviledged to worship with us” from the EO & RC churches. The local Protestant churches do everything they can to get more members and follow-up with visitors, get their name, address, visit their home, give them an info packet, etc…
I came away thinking… they’re not friendly, a lot of non-english speaking folks, what do I have in common with them? Why investigate changing if they’re not really interested in converts…

Many Orthodox parishes, especially but not exclusively those with a large convert base, are very welcoming of non-Orthodox visitors. That has been my experience. Sorry you did not feel welcome.

 

[Panthalani]

There will be situations in our life were we have to go alone. And especially for Catholics who want to stand for what they believe. The way of truth is not always smooth. But god will not allow an obstacle before you without giving you the power to overcome it. Leave all difficulties to god.

And remember that all that glitters is not gold.

 

[jmcrae]

I came away thinking… they’re not friendly, a lot of non-english speaking folks, what do I have in common with them? Why investigate changing if they’re not really interested in converts…

Maybe they are still waiting for someone to welcome them. We are all strangers and lonely in this world - never think that you are the only one - nor that other people can see past their own pain to be able to see yours.

Be a Catholic because Jesus wants you to be - not because of what this person or that person did.

If you leave every time someone ignores you or insults you, you’ll never stay in one place for very long.

 

[mark_a]

I’m more than a little disappointed in my journey back to the RC church and my side curiosity in the EOC. I’ve been two EO churches, both VERY small, and obviously a visitor, little was done to evangelize me. There was a couple of nice folks there… but almost nothing done to want me to come back to that congregation…
At least RC parishes have a local radio station to evangelize, but the local parishes aren’t overly friendly either.
I am scheduled to get my marriage convalidated next month… but I figured now would be a good time to make sure that I want to get back into the RC. Whatever I choose… I want it to be the last time.
I like what I read about the EO approach to theology… but without instruction…
I kind of get a “you should feel priviledged to worship with us” from the EO & RC churches. The local Protestant churches do everything they can to get more members and follow-up with visitors, get their name, address, visit their home, give them an info packet, etc…
I came away thinking… they’re not friendly, a lot of non-english speaking folks, what do I have in common with them? Why investigate changing if they’re not really interested in converts…

I gotta be honest. It sounds like you are not ready.

 

[Rence]

What I mean is that if you go to a church and your a visitor… and everyone knows you’re a visitor… I would expect someone to at least thank me for coming, ask us to come back, maybe ask what I thought, or at least show some interest in getting us to come back… (thinking of the Great commission)

Believe me, I totally understand your need to belong. But first and foremost you have to look at the catechism and the teachings, and go from there. Don’t get me wrong, I undertand what you’re saying, and it’s important, but understanding what it means to be RC or EOC and complying with their rules is something you need to determine first and foremost.

I’ve never felt like I belonged in a Catholic Church. I’ve always in my own little world of worship when I go to Mass. It would be nice to have a sense of belonging, and socializing is important, but not as important as your faith.

Good luck. I wish you the very best

 

[jmeyer3131]

I gotta be honest. It sounds like you are not ready.

Agreed.

Why are you considering returning to Catholicism? You should only choose to be Catholic if you believe in the truths of the Church.

As far as evangelizing, you’re right, people should do more of it. I evangelize a lot, but not at Mass. I assume people there are already “evangelized.” And though you want people to try to win you over to their church, I’ve found that being evangelical-minded can be a turn off to a lot of people.

When I walk into a Catholic church, my intent is to get to my seat and spend the rest of the available moments in prayer. Christ is there, in the Eucharist, in the tabernacle. He’s the One I am there for. If you could physically see Christ in the room, would you spend time with the person next to you or on your knees to Him?

Liturgy is not a “me & God” thing… it is a WE, US, & the communion of the Saints… it’s about WE as ONE worshipping God and bringing others to Him… if I already have Him I am supposed to share Him…

I’m not talking about “socializing” I’m speaking about bringing others to Truth…

.

You’re exactly right about liturgy. It IS a we, us, and communion of Saints thing, and you won’t find that in non-liturgical worship. But as far as bringing others to the Truth…during Mass, if the person next to you is a stranger but is comfortable with the Mass, most would assume that either you haven’t met him/her yet or that person is visiting from another parish. I never assume a stranger is really a stranger. I assume somebody I don’t know is another Christian, probably Catholic, here to worship. I take for granted they have been brought to the Truth, which is why I save my evangelizing for other places.

And even those who go to Mass and talk beforehand instead of praying or mentally preparing for Mass, even those folks aren’t necessarily thinking the stranger next to them wants to be evangelized. As I’ve said before, many people don’t want this. It makes them feel pressured.

Do you believe He is there in the Eucharist? If so, are you ready to give Him up to be more social?

 

[StillWondering]

I came away thinking… they’re not friendly, a lot of non-english speaking folks, what do I have in common with them? Why investigate changing if they’re not really interested in converts…

Dear Dave, I have some food for thought for you.

If you walked into a “Christian community” that happens to worship the Anti-Christ instead of Christ Himself. On the surface they seem Christian. And they were very welcoming and really respected your curiosity. What would you do?

I heard that the Scientology even shows you movies. They really are welcome I heard.

Back to reality, if you were looking for companionship, go out and talk to people yourself. Or go to a local YMCA club. If you are looking for God, then look for God!

Yes, those who follow Christ should be loving like Christ. Yet Christ also admonish and tell people when they need to change their lives. The key with everything is that Christian means follower of Christ, not followers of the buddy system.

If you want to learn, here is a great site for that. Also the priest at an orthodox parish is great too.

 

[Rolltide]

A couple other things to consider…

The Catholic Church is unlike many other Christian churches because when you are Protestant, you tend to belong exclusively to a particular church community with a particular pastor. In the Catholic Church, ALL of our churches are the same. Although the there are a few different liturgies, they ALL have the same doctrine and fundamentally believe the same thing. Protestants have the goal of fellowship and spreading the Word of God. Catholics do feel that scripture and the homily are important, but we’re there for the sacrament. Catholicism also has the unusual feature of being by FAR the largest denomination of Christianity in the world, with branches in virtually every country. In whole regions of the world, it is the dominant religion. Being the majority religion in an area does give you a slightly different experience then in the smaller Protestant denominations, especially since Catholic Churches have ALWAYS tended to be huge, while Protestant megachurches are a new thing. Now let me give you a few cultural examples of this.

When I was in high school, I had 543 students in my graduating class. I went to a huge school. My experience would be very different than a person attending school where their graduating class had only 40 people. I didn’t even KNOW half of the people in my graduating class, and I spent three years there. Catholic Churches can be like that. We have SO many members in many communities, that we simply can’t know everyone. Our own success can sometimes contribute to the impersonal feeling.

I am registered at a particular parish. I tend to go to that church because it’s close. BUT… if I’m out shopping, and it’s more convenient for me to go to Mass at the church across town, no big deal. If I’m on vacation, I’ll find the nearest Catholic Church. If I’m in a different country, in most cases, I’m certain I can find a Mass to attend. It doesn’t matter to me, because they’re ALL provide exactly the same thing. I’m not following a particular pastor, although I do genuinely like the one at my local church. This aspect of the church causes our parishes to have MANY, MANY visitors each week who are Catholic, but are not looking to be evangelized. Most of the time, when I see a new face in church, I simply assume they’re a visitor from out of town, or maybe the other side of town. I’m not looking for fellowship, I’m looking to go to Mass and participate in the sacrament of Communion. Now, when I’m in my home parish, I’ll stay for coffee and doughnuts after Mass, and get involved in parish activities, but that leads me to another issue.

I grew up in a predominantly Catholic area. I didn’t go to church for fellowship because I fellowshipped with Catholics OUTSIDE of Church. I already knew half the people in the parish from my neighborhood (and the other half I didn’t know because we had almost 4000 families in our parish). So… when I wanted Catholic fellowship, we might have a neighborhood party with the people in my block who were Catholic. When I had religious education, it was on my block in the homes of my neighbors who were my teachers. Between first and tenth grade, I had seven or eight parents on my block (and my own mother) as religious instructors for CCD. Now yes, there ARE activities in my parish. I did things at college with my Catholic friends at church, for example. I helped teach RCIA. I also didn’t worry about evangelization because every single person I knew was Catholic or Lutheran (I’m originally from Minnesota). Either they were already Catholic, or they had no desire to become one. The few that did have a desire to become Catholic usually just talked to a friend, and they took them to church. And… the Catholics would end up being the other half of their friends that weren’t already Lutheran, so they STILL knew everyone.

Further, when I go to Mass, I’m focused on Mass. The priest usually does greet me on the way in and on the way out, but when I’m going to church, I’m focused intently on prayer. I don’t WANT to be disturbed. I want quiet so I can concentrate on my prayers. It’s a very personal time when I go to church. I rarely even talk to my family when I’m inside of church, let alone others, because I’m focusing on God.

I remember a thread on here once about coat racks in church, and the post was so true. In Protestant churches, they usually have big coat rooms, but Catholics almost never take their coats off (or they’ll take them off at their seat). That one design feature actually is very telling about how different Catholics and Protestants perceive worship. Protestants settle in to their service and are there for fellowship. Most Catholics are there for the Mass, and do their fellowship elsewhere. If they DO get involved at the church, those events are usually scheduled at different times.

Maybe I’m rambling a bit, but I just wanted you to understand that when you’re a cradle Catholic from a heavily Catholic area, it makes for a very different spiritual situation. You end up having completely different expectations about what you want to get out of your worship experience.

 

[Cursilista]

Originally Posted by Dave in Dallas
I’m more than a little disappointed in my journey back to the RC church and my side curiosity in the EOC. I’ve been two EO churches, both VERY small, and obviously a visitor, little was done to evangelize me. There was a couple of nice folks there… but almost nothing done to want me to come back to that congregation…
At least RC parishes have a local radio station to evangelize, but the local parishes aren’t overly friendly either.
I am scheduled to get my marriage convalidated next month… but I figured now would be a good time to make sure that I want to get back into the RC. Whatever I choose… I want it to be the last time.
I like what I read about the EO approach to theology… but without instruction…
I kind of get a “you should feel priviledged to worship with us” from the EO & RC churches. The local Protestant churches do everything they can to get more members and follow-up with visitors, get their name, address, visit their home, give them an info packet, etc…
I came away thinking… they’re not friendly, a lot of non-english speaking folks, what do I have in common with them? Why investigate changing if they’re not really interested in converts…

Dig Deeper if you want fellowship. The Catholic Church definetly has fellowship. My Diocese has over 30 ministries you can get involved with. Youth ministries, Liturgy, homeless, Catholic Charities, RCIA, Healing Masses, you name it, we have it. Whatever is your interest im sure you can find it in the Catholic Church. Each of these ministries have meetings and get togethers with food and refreshments where you can experience the social aspects you seem to want. I personally participate in youth ministries and the cursillio movement ministry. The youth ministries have something every week, either a fund raiser for their activities of volleyball tournaments with other kids from other parishes, the weekend retreats. Cursillio is a movement of evangelation within the chuch.

Attending Mass is a sacred, holy, and humbeling part of the Catholic faith experience. We take it seriously. We are awed by the fact that Jesus’s presence is in that building. We give it due respect by being humble and quiet while in his presence.

Most Protestant denominations are at least the non denominationals have their building set up for hanging around after their services. everyone stays, has coffee and chats. This is a big part of fellowship that takes place before and right after their services where people can have that feel good experience with friends. Catholics do this as well, just not during or right after the mass in the church itself.

You have to dig a little but you can find that fellowship your seeking

 

[Onyx88]

In the end, conversion should be based on “is this the true Church? Is this what God wants?” and not subjective things like “how welcoming are these or those people?”

Just my humble opinion.

no, you’re so right

 

[Adeodatus]

Dave, allow me to personally welcome you to whichever Catholic parish you decide to go to (but especially if you pick the Tridentine Latin Mass).

If you believe what the Catholic Church teaches, that Jesus Christ is truly present, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Most Holy Eucharist, then it makes little difference how friendly people are or what color the carpet is or whatever (I’m not saying those things have absolutely no importance… I once attended a parish with orange carpeting… but we’re talking about the Eucharist, man).

There are some heretical sects and fringe cults that will fall all over themselves to get you to join them. They’ll all be your best friend and shower you with attention. What else have they got? They don’t have Christ. But if they don’t have Christ, why associate with them? Or perhaps they have the Scriptures, according to their own interpretations. But not the Eucharist? Then who needs them.

The way you put it, “maybe I should stay Protestant”, is really puzzling. Do you believe in the True Presence or not? If you do, you won’t let anything stand in your way.

 

[gurneyhalleck1]

Depends on what type of Protestant he is. As an Anglican I always believed in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist at Mass there. Lutherans believe the same. Now if he’s Reformed, Baptist, or something like that, that’s another matter.

The way you put it, “maybe I should stay Protestant”, is really puzzling. Do you believe in the True Presence or not? If you do, you won’t let anything stand in your way.

 

[LegoGE1947]

Dave, allow me to personally welcome you to whichever Catholic parish you decide to go to (but especially if you pick the Tridentine Latin Mass).

If you believe what the Catholic Church teaches, that Jesus Christ is truly present, Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity in the Most Holy Eucharist, then it makes little difference how friendly people are or what color the carpet is or whatever (I’m not saying those things have absolutely no importance… I once attended a parish with orange carpeting… but we’re talking about the Eucharist, man).

There are some heretical sects and fringe cults that will fall all over themselves to get you to join them. They’ll all be your best friend and shower you with attention. What else have they got? They don’t have Christ. But if they don’t have Christ, why associate with them? Or perhaps they have the Scriptures, according to their own interpretations. But not the Eucharist? Then who needs them.

The way you put it, “maybe I should stay Protestant”, is really puzzling. Do you believe in the True Presence or not? If you do, you won’t let anything stand in your way.

I was a Protestant since I was 26 and then at age 53 I became Catholic. For the next 7 years I and my wife attended Mass then suddenly one day in 2007 my wife said to me “this morning I’m going to church but not the one you want to go to.” So she and I went to this pentacostal worship center where I continued to accompany her until January of 2009. Finally I was so hungry for the real presence of Christ and the Eucharist that one Sunday when my wife was sick from a cold I attended a Catholic Mass. Even though this one Catholic Church has over 6000 members and I knew no one personally I was “hooked” after just one Mass. Even though I have to go alone, I’m not really alone because Christ is there, something I could not say about that pentacostal community even with all the loud music, and Bible studies, and lengthy preaching sessions, their obsession with the Holy Spirit’s gifts (speaking in tongues, prophesy, etc).

 

[francesca_gen]

The local Protestant churches do everything they can to get more members and follow-up with visitors, get their name, address, visit their home, give them an info packet, etc…
I came away thinking… they’re not friendly, a lot of non-english speaking folks, what do I have in common with them? Why investigate changing if they’re not really interested in converts…

I’ve thought a lot about this sort of thing, because I am very shy and very introverted and if I went into any church and they were champing at the bit to get my name and address, let alone visit me at home! , I would run screaming as fast as I could.

In fact, one of the many reasons I converted was to belong to a huge church where I could be quietly anonymous, simply go to Mass to pray and worship and then slip out again. I *still *get nervous the Peace. Yes, I have been involved in parish activities but selectively, according to my social comfort level.

I wonder how these things can be balanced, since clearly other folks like and/or need the more extroverted approach.

 

[Incomplete]

Depends on what type of Protestant he is. As an Anglican I always believed in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist at Mass there. Lutherans believe the same. Now if he’s Reformed, Baptist, or something like that, that’s another matter.

Good reminder. Thank you. Though you don’t believe in quite the way we do, or at least Lutheran’s don’t. My understanding from a Lutheran is that they believe the Real Presence does not remain after communion (but maybe I have this wrong.) For us, we believe the bread and wine become the Real Presence and don’t change back. To go into a Catholic church and know that there is Eucharist in the tabernacle is to know you are not alone. You can enter a Catholic church to pray, and be there with nobody else, but know that Christ is physically there with you.

And you can even go to Mass every day and receive Him…every day.

Either way, I hope the OP eventually realizes that he needs to figure out that if he doesn’t want to change again (and he has said he doesn’t) he needs to join a church for it’s teachings, not it’s sociability. Even among protestants, some churches are more social than others. Often it depends on church leadership.

 

[Monica4316]

I’m more than a little disappointed in my journey back to the RC church and my side curiosity in the EOC. I’ve been two EO churches, both VERY small, and obviously a visitor, little was done to evangelize me. There was a couple of nice folks there… but almost nothing done to want me to come back to that congregation…
At least RC parishes have a local radio station to evangelize, but the local parishes aren’t overly friendly either.
I am scheduled to get my marriage convalidated next month… but I figured now would be a good time to make sure that I want to get back into the RC. Whatever I choose… I want it to be the last time.
I like what I read about the EO approach to theology… but without instruction…
I kind of get a “you should feel priviledged to worship with us” from the EO & RC churches. The local Protestant churches do everything they can to get more members and follow-up with visitors, get their name, address, visit their home, give them an info packet, etc…
I came away thinking… they’re not friendly, a lot of non-english speaking folks, what do I have in common with them? Why investigate changing if they’re not really interested in converts…

Dave, the Catholic Church has true teachings and best of all - Jesus in the Blessed Sacrament… I can say for certain, that is what I wanted when I was a Protestant. As Catholics we can receive Jesus physically into ourselves. There’s nothing quite like it… it’s better than any other type of worship you’d find in a Protestant church. I used to be non denominational and became Catholic, and I’m so glad I did because there’s so much more grace in the Church… that is what matters, not how interested they are in getting converts. Don’t focus on what people say so much… if Jesus wants you to be Catholic, that is what matters.

God bless

 

[malphono]

I’m more than a little disappointed in my journey back to the RC church and my side curiosity in the EOC. I’ve been two EO churches, both VERY small, and obviously a visitor, little was done to evangelize me. There was a couple of nice folks there… but almost nothing done to want me to come back to that congregation… …

I like what I read about the EO approach to theology… but without instruction…
I kind of get a “you should feel priviledged to worship with us” from the EO & RC churches.

What is it you expect? EC and EO churches, regardless of the size, often get a steady stream of visitors. Most are there because of curiosity and nothing more.

At least RC parishes have a local radio station to evangelize, but the local parishes aren’t overly friendly either.
I am scheduled to get my marriage convalidated next month… but I figured now would be a good time to make sure that I want to get back into the RC. Whatever I choose… I want it to be the last time.

Is the forthcoming convalidation to be done in an EC? If not, I really don’t see what it has to do with this particular forum.

The local Protestant churches do everything they can to get more members and follow-up with visitors, get their name, address, visit their home, give them an info packet, etc…

In my experience, that is (thankfully) not true of High Church Anglicans nor of High Church Lutherans. I realize that it is frequently the case with “low church” denominations and almost inevitable with evangelicals, which is one reason why I am a perpetual stranger to them. I’m a private person, and I have a lot of sales resistance. The more I get pressured, the less I will even consider it.

Another poster said it nicely:

I’ve thought a lot about this sort of thing, because I am very shy and very introverted and if I went into any church and they were champing at the bit to get my name and address, let alone visit me at home! , I would run screaming as fast as I could.

I would have done the same. I do not deal at all well with high pressure tactics, and I’m not alone in that. As I see it, the Church does not need to pressure people.

I came away thinking… they’re not friendly, a lot of non-english speaking folks, what do I have in common with them? Why investigate changing if they’re not really interested in converts…

Did you express any interest in conversion to the priest?